[Yggy]

My HD-800s arrived. Have been testing with a Forza Noir Hybrid HPC XLR cable and the HA-300. The HA-300 drives it very easily. I was at 8:00 to 9:00 on the low impedance setting. Unlike the Utopia, which is equally easy to drive, it doesn’t seem to benefit from higher impedance settings.

I started by listening to the sort of one instrument classical music the AKG 1000 excels at so a couple of 24 bit FLAC Yo-Yo Ma albums, Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone and Six Evolutions: Bach Cello Suites.

Within a minute of listening I realised I was comparing apples with oranges. The HD-800S renders a single instrument brilliantly but it’s a standard headphone. The sound stage is wider than the Susvara and Diana Phi, but it’s still a headphone. The K1000 is an ear-speaker and the sound stage is much wider with the flaps open as far as they go which is how I do most of my listening.

The HD-800S can do a lot of what the Susvara and Diana Phi can do for a lot less money but the K1000 can’t. People say the HD-800S doesn’t have enough bass but the K1000 has almost no bass. The HD-800S has a bit less bass than the Susvara but the quality of the bass is very good. I listened to Massive Attack’s Angel, Muse’s Madness, and Bjork’s Hunter, my usual bass test tracks and the HD-800S was very good although it’s quality over quantity.

I agree that the HD-800S pairs very well with the HA-300. It tames the treble and smooths what might be an overly analytical sound. I still find the treble too fatiguing to listen to something like Aerosmith’s Cryin’ or Crazy at 24 Bit and 192.0 kHz. None of my headphones do justice to 80s pop rock like Queen, Aerosmith, and Def Leppard.

I sometimes hear a bit of grunge with the HD800-S and HA-300. I had this issue with the Utopia too. Occasionally, I have to lift the tube cage off the HA-300 and gently touch the tubes, it seems to clear the static that too easy-to-drive headphones are more suspect to relaying through the HA-300.

The HD-800S does high resolution modern pop nearly as well as Susvaras and Diana Phi. It’s detailed, resolving, and quick, so when you add in some very nice bass quality you’re getting a lot of bang for your buck. It wipes the floor with other headphones I’ve listened to in this price range, e.g. LCD3, if you value detail, clarity, and refinement.

For classical music, it’s 50/50 with the Susvara, the Susvaras’s treble is smoother but the HD-800s is crisper. I slightly prefer the HD-800s which is incredible considering the price differential. The HD-800s is brilliant value for money if you mainly listen to classical, jazz, acoustic, and light modern pop.

The K1000 is still untouchable for classical music, in particular single instrument. It can also do bass-light older pop provided the treble is pulled back a bit in the recording. For example, Chicago’s If You Leave Me Now sounds amazing, the K1000 really digs out and projects the vocal, better than I’ve ever heard it before.

I think I’m more likely to keep the K1000 in the long run than the HD-800s because of its completely different sound and phenomenal sound stage with classical music rather than because it’s better than the HD-800s. The HD-800s is a much better all-round headphone but it doesn’t wow me like the AKG K1000.

 

[dadracer2]

My HD-800s arrived. Have been testing with a Forza Noir Hybrid HPC XLR cable and the HA-300. The HA-300 drives it very easily. I was at 8:00 to 9:00 on the low impedance setting. Unlike the Utopia, which is equally easy to drive, it doesn’t seem to benefit from higher impedance settings.

I started by listening to the sort of one instrument classical music the AKG 1000 excels at so a couple of 24 bit FLAC Yo-Yo Ma albums, Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone and Six Evolutions: Bach Cello Suites.

Within a minute of listening I realised I was comparing apples with oranges. The HD-800S renders a single instrument brilliantly but it’s a standard headphone. The sound stage is wider than the Susvara and Diana Phi, but it’s still a headphone. The K1000 is an ear-speaker and the sound stage is much wider with the flaps open as far as they go which is how I do most of my listening.

The HD-800S can do a lot of what the Susvara and Diana Phi can do for a lot less money but the K1000 can’t. People say the HD-800S doesn’t have enough bass but the K1000 has almost no bass. The HD-800S has a bit less bass than the Susvara but the quality of the bass is very good. I listened to Massive Attack’s Angel, Muse’s Madness, and Bjork’s Hunter, my usual bass test tracks and the HD-800S was very good although it’s quality over quantity.

I agree that the HD-800S pairs very well with the HA-300. It tames the treble and smooths what might be an overly analytical sound. I still find the treble too fatiguing to listen to something like Aerosmith’s Cryin’ or Crazy at 24 Bit and 192.0 kHz. None of my headphones do justice to 80s pop rock like Queen, Aerosmith, and Def Leppard.

I sometimes hear a bit of grunge with the HD800-S and HA-300. I had this issue with the Utopia too. Occasionally, I have to lift the tube cage off the HA-300 and gently touch the tubes, it seems to clear the static that too easy-to-drive headphones are more suspect to relaying through the HA-300.

The HD-800S does high resolution modern pop nearly as well as Susvaras and Diana Phi. It’s detailed, resolving, and quick, so when you add in some very nice bass quality you’re getting a lot of bang for your buck. It wipes the floor with other headphones I’ve listened to in this price range, e.g. LCD3, if you value detail, clarity, and refinement.

For classical music, it’s 50/50 with the Susvara, the Susvaras’s treble is smoother but the HD-800s is crisper. I slightly prefer the HD-800s which is incredible considering the price differential. The HD-800s is brilliant value for money if you mainly listen to classical, jazz, acoustic, and light modern pop.

The K1000 is still untouchable for classical music, in particular single instrument. It can also do bass-light older pop provided the treble is pulled back a bit in the recording. For example, Chicago’s If You Leave Me Now sounds amazing, the K1000 really digs out and projects the vocal, better than I’ve ever heard it before.

I think I’m more likely to keep the K1000 in the long run than the HD-800s because of its completely different sound and phenomenal sound stage with classical music rather than because it’s better than the HD-800s. The HD-800s is a much better all-round headphone but it doesn’t wow me like the AKG K1000.

That's a most fascinating comparison and makes me think I should try and get a listen to those Mysphere headphones as I think they are the ex AKG engineers/designers of the K1000.

In fact I agree with much of what you have said especially in regard to the HD800S and HA300 pairing, and I will be sticking with the HD800S for headphone purposes. I can get the full speaker sound from the HA300 with my speakers. I get it though if you don't have/want speakers that the K1000 offers both options effectively.

Meantime I must contact my local dealer and set up a demo of the Mysphere!!!

 

[rmsanger]

That's a most fascinating comparison and makes me think I should try and get a listen to those Mysphere headphones as I think they are the ex AKG engineers/designers of the K1000.

In fact I agree with much of what you have said especially in regard to the HD800S and HA300 pairing, and I will be sticking with the HD800S for headphone purposes. I can get the full speaker sound from the HA300 with my speakers. I get it though if you don't have/want speakers that the K1000 offers both options effectively.

Meantime I must contact my local dealer and set up a demo of the Mysphere!!!

Here is a fantastic writeup on the Mysphere from my guy Mon... He's one of the most credible posters/mods on a few forums I'm on. He even has a synergy section and comments on the HA-300 as well.

https://www.sonusapparatus.com/2022/01/mysphere-3-1-3-2-impressions/

 

[dadracer2]

Here is a fantastic writeup on the Mysphere from my guy Mon... He's one of the most credible posters/mods on a few forums I'm on. He even has a synergy section and comments on the HA-300 as well.

https://www.sonusapparatus.com/2022/01/mysphere-3-1-3-2-impressions/

Thanks mate.

 

[llamaluv]

Why did you go for 0.33 uF 600 VDC rather than 0.22 uF 600 VDC Jupiters? The Mundorfs in the HA-300 are 0.22 uF 600 VDC.

(I know nothing about these specs by the way!

https://www.partsconnexion.com/JUPITER-78883.html

Huh, good question. I think at the time that was all I could find? I would also assume that 0.22 uF would be preferable, hehe.

 

[Yggy]

That's a most fascinating comparison and makes me think I should try and get a listen to those Mysphere headphones as I think they are the ex AKG engineers/designers of the K1000.

Yes, good call. The guy who designed the K1000, Heinz Renner, also designed the MySphere. The reviews say it improves on the K1000 sound.

My only reservation is the K1000 has classic status so in theory it might depreciate less and could even appreciate in value over time if you buy a nice one and look after it.

The MySphere could be expensive to buy new or nearly new and resell because it’s regarded as a novelty rather than a classic. Even though it may be more flexible in terms of listening.

We don’t enjoy this hobby to make money though! Otherwise, there would be a lot of disappointed Head-fiers. I’m always fine with losing money as long as I’ve enjoyed myself and learned something.

 

[Yggy]

I’ve been listening to the HD-800s with my FiiO M17 DAP this afternoon. Incredible synergy. The M17 is neutral but can be a tad soft and bass heavy so the more analytical bass light HD-800s is a match made in heaven.

The HE-1000SE is my favourite open back with the M17 but it sounds better plugged into an IFI Elite iPower 12v PSU upgrade.

The HD-800s sounds as good without the M17 being plugged into a DC power supply, it just needs a bit more volume. The M17 is a brick and will be laughed at in 5 years but it’s portable enough and any TOTL headphone sounds so much better than any IEM. If you have a HD-800s, please give it a try with the FiiO M17, you’ll love it.

I’m using the Forza Audio Noir Hybrid HPC cable with a Neutrik XLR to 4.4mm adapter. I listen to nearly all my headphones. It’s always a bit smoother, warmer, and bass heavy than a stock cable for not much money by premium cable standards. Matt at Forza does a great job,

 

[Yggy]

Huh, good question. I think at the time that was all I could find? I would also assume that 0.22 uF would be preferable, hehe.

I think so but I have no idea why! Hopefully, Hifi Collective can explain it to me.

 

[Yggy]

If you’re buying Burson and IFI all-in-ones and don’t have Abyss 1266 or Susvara headphones, save yourself some space and get the FiiO M17 DAP. It’s a breakthrough product with over the ear headphones. Smooth, high fidelity desktop quality sound in the form factor of 3 iPhones Maxes glued together!

 

[Andykong]

AndyKong, the AKG K1000 with hardwired Stefan Audio cable upgrade, HA-300, and WE300b tubes is more than “very OK”!

It’s to classical music and vocals what the HE-6 is to rap, R&B, and EDM. As you say, the soundstage is in front of you, the sound is delicate, light, detailed, sweet, and holographic.

I’m listening to Gabriel’s Oboe on Yo Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone in 24 Bit 88.2 kHz FLAC. It’s like listening to the music played live in a cathedral. There is no sensation of wearing headphones, it’s just your ears, air, and the most beautiful sound.

I thought I’d gone too far with the AKG K1000. How could something manufactured in the 1990s be relevant or listenable in 2022.

Thank you Heinz Renner. My flaps are open and my ears are amazed. I’ve heard Heinz listens to his K1000 with a subwoofer, I’ll have to give that a go. I have an old Denon AVC-A1HDA cinema amp, I might try the subwoofer out from that.

Obviously, you wouldn’t go out and buy the AKG K1000 as your only or primary headphone. The sound quality is audiophile quality but vintage. It’s not going to compete across music genres with modern headphones. It’s a collectors item you can still get a lot of pleasure from with the right set-up and music genre.

I have heard better from K11000 with more powerful speaker amplifier, that's why I said they are OK, from the best of K21000 perspective. However, we limit our choice to headphone amplifier only and excluded speaker amplifier combination, K1000 with HA-300 sounds good and surprised me.

I am a bit skeptical about adding a subwoofer to an headphone system, not that I question the sonic performance, but you need a dedicated room to hosue such a system otherwise it'll disturb your family. If I have a dedicated room for my audio expereince, I'll go for speakers.

How could something manufactured in the 1990s be relevant or listenable in 2022? Well, a lot of modern headphones takes a different approach to sound tuning. If you enjoy K1000 and HE6, maybe you can check out another classic headphone from Sennheiser: the 600ohm version HD540/HD250/HD540Gold. They are exceptionally good with 300B headphone amplifiuer like HA-300. They ae not expensive by today standard, but finding a pair in decent condition is not easy.

 

[Andykong]

Ah ha! Thanks that makes sense. I wonder why they also swapped to Tung Sol for the 6SN7 was it for a similar reason?

There are two answer to this question.

(1) When TJ Full Music 300B was discontinued, we start to search for replacement options, Gold Lion 300Bs and Tung Sol was selected as a pair to deliver the audio performance and signature we set for HA-300.

(2) Changing stock tube is a regular exercise in tube amplifer manufcturing, we need to adjust our supply chain to remain efficiency in our operation, and take advantage of the lastest devleopment and price adjustment offered by our suppliers.

Product development is an ongoing process and manufacturing management is scientific and complicated, and the decision will need to be supported by engineering and production, and they probably will focus as different perspective. In other word, we most decision were make under a mixed of reasons.

 

[dadracer2]

There are two answer to this question.

(1) When TJ Full Music 300B was discontinued, we start to search for replacement options, Gold Lion 300Bs and Tung Sol was selected as a pair to deliver the audio performance and signature we set for HA-300.

(2) Changing stock tube is a regular exercise in tube amplifer manufcturing, we need to adjust our supply chain to remain efficiency in our operation, and take advantage of the lastest devleopment and price adjustment offered by our suppliers.

Product development is an ongoing process and manufacturing management is scientific and complicated, and the decision will need to be supported by engineering and production, and they probably will focus as different perspective. In other word, we most decision were make under a mixed of reasons.

Thanks Andy, that seems entirely fair and reasonable.

 

[Andykong]

If I was Cayin I’d have a standard and a premium tubed version of the Mk 2 HA-300. I’d also sell a no tubes version for customers who have rolled the tubes on their Mk 1 and don’t need tubes. Market segmentation and up-selling premium tubes would benefit margins. Selling a standard tubed version only contributes to reviewers not appreciating how brilliant the HA-300 is. Also, the Mk 3 needs to have more power. Even better, sell a premium version of the power supply and rectifier tubes for both the Mk 1 and Mk 2.

I don't believe they could get more power out of the 300B, unless they changed the circuit and made it possible to use the 300BXLS. The 22DE4 rectifier valves they use are NOS and as good a version as there is.

Yes, when we used 300B as power tube in a SETA configuration, there isn't much we can do to increase the power.

If we are usihng Push-pull design, we can increase output power by doubling the number of Power tube, but push-pull is not an ideal circuit design for Direct Heat Triode tube, that leave parallel single-end as the only viable choice. Although more power might improve the pairing with several really demanding headphones, but it might also introduce adverse effect to dozens of high sensitivey headphone.

Cayin adopt a very different attitude (culture?) towards tube rolling. We precieve tube rolling as
(1) a final touch to enhance the synergy between you amplifier and your speaker/headphone
(2) a fun game to explore changes in sound signature and performance through mix and match of different driver and power tubes
(3) an upgrade option to enhance the performance of your amplifier

(1) and (2) cannot be fulfilled by pre-packaged "premium" tube options. (3) is partially fulfilled if we ignor personal preference.

Last but not least, Cayin is located in China, the logistic cost to send premium tube from China to US or Europe is extremely high, and in case of any tube failure during mailing, replace time and cost will be hefty and difficult to manage, so we always recommend our users to purchage upgarde tube from their local supplier.

 

[Andykong]

It'd be a dream come true if it had pre-amp capabilities, but I have the feeling it won't, unfortunately.

Unfortunately, HA-300MK2 does not have pre-amp ouptut.

 

[helljudgement]

My HD-800s arrived. Have been testing with a Forza Noir Hybrid HPC XLR cable and the HA-300. The HA-300 drives it very easily. I was at 8:00 to 9:00 on the low impedance setting. Unlike the Utopia, which is equally easy to drive, it doesn’t seem to benefit from higher impedance settings.

I started by listening to the sort of one instrument classical music the AKG 1000 excels at so a couple of 24 bit FLAC Yo-Yo Ma albums, Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone and Six Evolutions: Bach Cello Suites.

Within a minute of listening I realised I was comparing apples with oranges. The HD-800S renders a single instrument brilliantly but it’s a standard headphone. The sound stage is wider than the Susvara and Diana Phi, but it’s still a headphone. The K1000 is an ear-speaker and the sound stage is much wider with the flaps open as far as they go which is how I do most of my listening.

The HD-800S can do a lot of what the Susvara and Diana Phi can do for a lot less money but the K1000 can’t. People say the HD-800S doesn’t have enough bass but the K1000 has almost no bass. The HD-800S has a bit less bass than the Susvara but the quality of the bass is very good. I listened to Massive Attack’s Angel, Muse’s Madness, and Bjork’s Hunter, my usual bass test tracks and the HD-800S was very good although it’s quality over quantity.

I agree that the HD-800S pairs very well with the HA-300. It tames the treble and smooths what might be an overly analytical sound. I still find the treble too fatiguing to listen to something like Aerosmith’s Cryin’ or Crazy at 24 Bit and 192.0 kHz. None of my headphones do justice to 80s pop rock like Queen, Aerosmith, and Def Leppard.

I sometimes hear a bit of grunge with the HD800-S and HA-300. I had this issue with the Utopia too. Occasionally, I have to lift the tube cage off the HA-300 and gently touch the tubes, it seems to clear the static that too easy-to-drive headphones are more suspect to relaying through the HA-300.

The HD-800S does high resolution modern pop nearly as well as Susvaras and Diana Phi. It’s detailed, resolving, and quick, so when you add in some very nice bass quality you’re getting a lot of bang for your buck. It wipes the floor with other headphones I’ve listened to in this price range, e.g. LCD3, if you value detail, clarity, and refinement.

For classical music, it’s 50/50 with the Susvara, the Susvaras’s treble is smoother but the HD-800s is crisper. I slightly prefer the HD-800s which is incredible considering the price differential. The HD-800s is brilliant value for money if you mainly listen to classical, jazz, acoustic, and light modern pop.

The K1000 is still untouchable for classical music, in particular single instrument. It can also do bass-light older pop provided the treble is pulled back a bit in the recording. For example, Chicago’s If You Leave Me Now sounds amazing, the K1000 really digs out and projects the vocal, better than I’ve ever heard it before.

I think I’m more likely to keep the K1000 in the long run than the HD-800s because of its completely different sound and phenomenal sound stage with classical music rather than because it’s better than the HD-800s. The HD-800s is a much better all-round headphone but it doesn’t wow me like the AKG K1000.

Great comparison.

The hd800 remains one of the most resolving and technically capable headphone released to date and I stand by that. It may not have the bass heft or weight that planars are able to portray but all the details are there in spades. It is also one of the most frustrating headphone to own for me mainly due to it's tuning. There have been multiple times I've contemplated selling but it still remains in my collection after a decade making it the oldest gear I currently own. Pairing it with tubes certainly makes sense and I also found it sound best with 300b tubes so I'm glad I stuck with it. It is a technical marvel.