[bluestorm1992]

C9 user group didn't recommend Fantasy to you? I must file a complaint about this. Hahahaha.

They did! Ask Andrew to stock it soon and I may buy one as well!

 

[Andykong]

Has anyone tried to pair a DX160 + C9 and compare it either with DX300 + C9 or DX300 alone? I am trying to get a sense of the sound quality of the DX160 in relation to the various pairings. I just bought a DX160 to see if I like it better than my current R 6 2020 as a stand alone DAP and I am wondering how much improvement to the sound the C9 can do to the DX160. As we wait for the dedicated Line Out module for the DX300, I thought I'd do some A/B testing of various pairings.

I forgot to mention, I am going to test the PEQ capabilities of the DX160, too. I am finding that it's PEQ or bust. I don't like any of the EQ variaents I've encountered like MSEB or genre specific EQ presets.

I can't comment on DX160 vs DX300 even with C9 in the formula, so let me use N3Pro + C9 vs N6ii + C9 vs N6ii to illustrate my observation.

When we develop budget-concerned DAP, we need to ...... inevitably cut some corners in order to deliver all the functions and yet remain at satisfactory performance level. At audio circuitry level, the three biggest cost items are digital, analog and power supply. When we skim on digital, users will probably aware of that because a lot of them are quantifiable. When we skim on analog (amplifier), users didn't pay that much attention other then rated output, and they are more accommodative, so its easier to cut cost at this part. Power supply can be the biggest different between an high performance DAP and a budget-concerned DAP, because most DAP didn't provide a lot of detail on Power Management design, so users probably won't know anything about that.

Base on these assumptions, adding C9 to budget-concerned DAP such as A3Pro will provide bigger impact/improvement than adding C9 to high performance DAP such as N6ii. This is particularly true if the budget-concerned DAP has a real line out feature that by pass the headphone amp circuit completely (and hence removed the cut-corner factor), and leave more power supply headroom to the digital audio circuit.

WOW, 200 pages ... the pace of C9 thread is really impressive.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I can't comment on DX160 vs DX300 even with C9 in the formula, so let me use N3Pro + C9 vs N6ii + C9 vs N6ii to illustrate my observation.

When we develop budget-concerned DAP, we need to ...... inevitably cut some corners in order to deliver all the functions and yet remain at satisfactory performance level. At audio circuitry level, the three biggest cost items are digital, analog and power supply. When we skim on digital, users will probably aware of that because a lot of them are quantifiable. When we skim on analog (amplifier), users didn't pay that much attention other then rated output, and they are more accommodative, so its easier to cut cost at this part. Power supply can be the biggest different between an high performance DAP and a budget-concerned DAP, because most DAP didn't provide a lot of detail on Power Management design, so users probably won't know anything about that.

Base on these assumptions, adding C9 to budget-concerned DAP such as A3Pro will provide bigger impact/improvement than adding C9 to high performance DAP such as N6ii. This is particularly true if the budget-concerned DAP has a real line out feature that by pass the headphone amp circuit completely (and hence removed the cut-corner factor), and leave more power supply headroom to the digital audio circuit.

WOW, 200 pages ... the pace of C9 thread is really impressive.

Thanks. I was hoping that would be true. I appreciate the technical detail too.

 

[Andykong]

It's okay to use the C9 portably, in a bag - although I would suggest avoiding tube/A. I'm doing it right now.

WA8 is hilarious, the user manual says: "Do not use the amplifier in a bag".

What I think Cayin needs to do next, @Andykong, is perhaps to build a bag for the C9 such as the following.



(The tube amp pictured is the TU-05, which is 1kg, and manufacturer makes and sells the bag, and also allows for customisation of the "dap pocket" size... haha)


Oh absolutely. Andy himself has said, even before launch, that the C9 was designed within a certain performance envelope.

Work in progress by a friend (i.e., not Cayin), Early prototype stage only, so please stay tune.

 

[Andykong]

Tried TT2+M-Scaler with the C9 in line-in vs pre-in mode today and I actually prefer line-in. In pre-in, bass gets a bit too bloomy for me. Z1R with Tube and Class A from TT2 line-in is great.

Is this your regular source for C9? This is exotic. Maybe I should raise my expectation to this community and expect a Dave + C9 as the next milestone.

 

[Andykong]

how can you tell the difference between real pre-out and fake pre-out vs. real line out vs. fake line out? Some times the jacks are the same.

I have written some basic explanation on line out and pre-out HERE.

 

[Andykong]

You don't need to put the Hugo 2 in 3v output mode -- just adjust the volume to whatever level is suitable for the C9. With some devices that don't use a volume control on the input (but after a gain stage) you can overload them sending out 3V and you'll get worse sound quality.

With high-end IEMs and headphones, you'll start to notice differences in interconnects. I tend to say that something better than basic made by one of the cable companies/people here will do the job nicely.



This is why my account image says "Sorry about your wallet" in Latin.



There's no such thing as a "fake pre-out". Line level and normal headphone driving level are pretty close. Line level is 2V SE, and 4V balanced and headphone amps tend to go higher than that. Headphone amps tend to have a low output impedance and both a current and voltage gain stage, whereas the output impedance from a dedicated line out from a stereo hi-fi component would be a great deal higher, at 100 Ohms or more. A line out is simpler as they are only driving a simple load, usually 100 kOhms or so and don't require a high current. The Chord Hugo 2 is an exception to this as it has a completely different DAC/amp set-up compared to everything else, allowing it to work perfectly for most headphones as well as a line out.

Some desktop DAC offers Pre-amp "mode" but in fact it is only a digital attenuator that lower the output level of DAC line out, there is no voltage gain in the pre-amp function, only attenuation. The original Cayin iDAC-6 is an example of this, and I called that pseudo pre-amp output when I explain the feature to users at CanJam and Audio Shows.

 

[Kiats]

The FitEar DC is a hybrid custom with 2 Fostex 9mm dynamic drivers with one EST tweeter. It is not easy to drive. Common complaints is that it is dark. Actually when run out of sufficiently powerful DAPs and here out of the C9 on high gain, the FitEar DC really soars with a really 3D soundstage. It has a nice deep layered soundstage. Line in from the FiiO M15 upsampling the QQ Music stream to DSD. Eletech Illiad cable from @Eric Chong. Saturday morning listening.

 

[bluestorm1992]

The FitEar DC is a hybrid custom with 2 Fostex 9mm dynamic drivers with one EST tweeter. It is not easy to drive. Common complaints is that it is dark. Actually when run out of sufficiently powerful DAPs and here out of the C9 on high gain, the FitEar DC really soars with a really 3D soundstage. It has a nice deep layered soundstage. Line in from the FiiO M15 upsampling the QQ Music stream to DSD. Eletech Illiad cable from @Eric Chong. Saturday morning listening.

Wonderful setup! Happy weekend listening.

 

[michaelc]

Work in progress by a friend (i.e., not Cayin), Early prototype stage only, so please stay tune.

Hope it's a 2 separate compartment with adjustable height for DAP

 

[Andykong]

Dude, go for it. You have the best AMPs in the market. You have no idea what is in store for you. The MEST MKII is just the first step in a long journey toward sonic bliss. With that purchase, you are just scratching the surface of what is possible with IEMs.

Next, you need to try a ZMF Verite Closed with that Primaluna EVO 400.

He need to try a ZMF Vérité Closed with Cayin HA-300.

At $3999, the HA-300 offers the 300B dream tube and outboard power supply, definitely the tube headphone amplifier to check out if someone is looking for an amplifier at this price range.

 

[Hanyong]

Give c9 a thumbs up, as a portable amplifier, it has enough power to drive HEDDphone.

 

[Andykong]

Received my ISN USB Type - C to 4.4mm today.Wow! This is a quality item. Box and presentation is very good for a small low cost I.C.
I have this as a back up so I can connect my mobile phone to the C9. Just connected it and crikey! That's a sound I wasn't expecting! Playing through Tidal (am aware it will be straight through, no MQA unfolding etc) on the phone to the C9 on High Gain, Solid State, AB...
It's amazing! This C9 can do nothing wrong! WOW!

This is interesting, something I have in mind since I brainstorm C9 marketing plan. Let's hope there will be a mini DAC/Amp with "real" line out down the road, that's my dream DAC/Amp dongle for mobile phone.

 

[Andykong]

On another aspect. Do you think I can use this Rechargeable Battery to charge the C9? It's technically a Jump Start Vehicle Backup, but as you can see it has USB sockets, and if you see the detailed outputs on the back, I think it could be used. Any thoughts please?

This should work, but apparently this Rechargeable battery don't support QC3.0, so it will be very slow when you want to charge up the C9.

 

[Andykong]

Had a bit of a panic last night when using the C9 over many hours to sample what it has to offer. Battery life was extremely good but towards the end of battery life I found it a bit confusing. Those battery indicator lights seemed to have a life of their own and 'updated' only when the unit was switched off then back on. 'Updates' via the battery lights didn't seem to be true whilst in operation. My unit arrived fully charged in a sealed box and lasted just over 12 hours playing music and left on stand by! Not bad on the first run using a combo of settings! The lights began to disappear down to one, in a very short space of time, then the unit didn't switch on. Obviously, I'm presuming very low battery power, so the unit may have refused to operate for protection? I recharged and it is now turning back on, displaying all battery lights and working. So today, I will run another series of listening sessions and keep an eye on the battery status including turning the C9 on and off and various intervals to see what happens.
Anybody else encountering battery issues or performance related things?

If this is your brand new C9 and you are still in the first charging cycle, maybe the situation will get better after several rounds of charging? Capacity estimation of new Lithium batteries can have a very big error margin.