immortalsoul
1000+ Head-Fier
Hi, if any of you have a Cayin C9 that want to trade for other goods please shot me a PM. Thank you!
Cayin C9: Dual Nutube, Fully Balanced Class A/AB Portable HeadAmp
- Thread starter Andykong
- Start date
JBOOGIE86
Head-Fier
Can the C9 be a good pairing for the Verite Closed?
Spawn300Z
1000+ Head-Fier
Yes, would make nice portable setup.
And not only portable.
Yes outstanding, I use this combo often.
Absolutely. DX300 + amp12 + C9 = perfect for ZMF Verite Closed.
This is the cable I use from Audiophile Ninja. $35. Strong and sturdy.Before I start want to pass on "Thank You's" to the early contributors to this thread and especially to Andy Kong for all of his info and transparency of what is the C9, all of you have posted great info and insights that made me want to go and buy one and now I am just enjoying the c9 thoroughly! Also want to pass on Thank You's to Christian at PlusSound Audio and Eric Chong at Eletech for their input and advise for upgraded interconnects which have made a difference and the subject of my post today.
I know the topic of cables and the associated costs have launched many religious wars here on Head-Fi. Many consider it snake oil, but I view cables as the "final" tuning that can be done to IEM's or even source devices. IF the sound signature you are seeking is close with the HW you've purchased, and your already using high bit rate MP3's or preferably FLAC files, then eeking out that last bit of enjoyment can be found in changing cables. Will it convert HW that is overly dark or bright into the perfect system, NO. but if it is close, and you like what your HW is presenting to you, it makes sense to save your investment in said HW and tweak on it with cables, and this is my opinion and a philosophy I follow.
I don't consider myself a reviewer, just someone who enjoys audio and has been around the block a few times, and likes to share info. Please understand what I write below is IMO and that YMMV.
Also all of these cables were purchased, nothing was provided to me by any of the OEM's mentioned, nor am I getting anything in return for what I am writing below.
I'm just another audio enthusiast like most everyone else here at Head-fi.
I just want to share info today about interconnects and how I think it affects the quality/enjoyment of the sound as while early on there were a few posts about interconnects making a difference, haven't seen more on the topic
I've allowed the C9 to have well over the 50+ hours of burn in as recommended by many on this thread, as well as on the various IC's I've procured or commissioned.
As "Ichos" mentions above, the Class "A" / Tube Timbre is so addicting and easy to listen to that for all of the listening/testing I did for the interconnects, I used the Tube Timbre and mostly Class A amplification, but some Class AB amplification on the Cayin C9 for critical back to back listening, I did do some work with the Solid State Amplification but the changes in sound were much more pronounced between the interconncets that for this write up, will stick to notes I made for Tube/Class A.
Source was my Lotoo PAW 6000 in variable line out mode, and the C9 in Pre Input/Pure Amplification Mode bypass all of the Cayin's preamp sections.
This combination is REALLY good, and to me is a much fuller sound than any other sources I borrowed or tired during the several months I have taken to get to this write up!
This included even the Cayin N6ii with a A02 Module. The N6ii/A02 preout combo was close, but for my tastes I preferred the PAW6K/C9 combo with the PAW6K being a true preamp contolling the volume. The sound was just clear, and with the C9 in Pure Amp/tube/class A mode very analog, full, rich and warm regardless of genre of music! - Again IMO
I also only listened to the 4.4mm Balanced input for the most part. While the Single Ended 3.5m was nice, the Balanced input seem to have a wider soundstage and with some cables a deeper front to back presence. Again just my preference as this is not meant to be an end all be all write up.
IEM used were my new (but well over 200 hours of time on them) JH Audio Jolene's (dynamic bass and low mids drivers and BA high mids and high for a total of 12 drivers per side) going through a Palladium Plated Copper/Silver Hybrid cable
Source material was all mostly FLAC recordings which included original Master Recording modern Jazz, Older Rock including many with lots of 3 part harmony, Standards Jazz and Classical/full Orchestra with some Acid Jazz Club music as source material.
I'm going to score the interconnect cables discussed below on a 1-10 scale
Also I borrowed or tired as many different interconnects I could use, but will concentrate on 4 for this write up and may briefly mention the few that I did not own as I could not provide full burn in time/knew how burn in they had, and well for me did not measure up to the 4 interconnects I'm going to concentrate on below
Cayin's provided 8 wire Copper Interconnect with the C9. (Approx $45 by itself from Cayin/Cayin resellers)
Using the Stock Copper 8 wire cable that Cayin provided is the baseline for the 4 interconnects since most will have this as their primary cable.
The cable build is of great quality and much better than cables often provided by other OEM's.
It was good, nice balanced sound but highs seemed to be a little veiled and sub bass was a little muddy
Very narrow soundstage, sound is in my head and not extending out
I'd give the Cayin stock cable a 4+/5 out of 10
Most will be able to live with this interconnect and be happy not spending more, but others will blame the C9 for not sounding as good as they expected, and here is where changing out the interconnect should be explored.
But let me say this.
It was better than some less expensive "plastic" throw in or supposed OCC copper or SPC 4.4mm balanced cables as well as some of the really inexpensive interconnects on Amazon or similar stores in the $35-$75 range that are supposed to be SPC (but not sure as it sure did not sound like it) that others let me try who were using for a variety of other 4.4mm input amps/dac-amps they were using. I'd give these cables a 1-3 at tops.
So yes the Cayin is much better then inexpensive cables that are out there
Plus Sound X8, 8 wire custom interconnect using OCC Silver Platted Copper and OCC Silver+Gold alloy wires and PlusSound Rhodium Platted 4.4mm TRRRS termination (Approx $350-400 depending on options chosen and shipping)
Speaking with Christian at PlusSound and wanting to take baby steps, he and I settled on a the combination above since he felt a straight copper or even SPC 8 wire probably would not give me much more than the stock Cayin cable. Adding the Silver + Gold alloy wires to the SPC would help with extending the highs and still keep the bass signature I was hearing
This cable proved to be much better than the stock Cayin cable. It had an greater quantity of bass and was less muddy to my ears, more clarity in the mids, highs much better and little more extended, but still seem to be a slight veil on them
Sound stage is still in my head but there was MUCH more space between instruments and vocals.
I give this combo a solid "6" as slightly better than the stock cable but there can be more done to clear the highs and add more depth and width to the sound
Also as a note: I also had this cable made in a 12" length
Even though the Lotoo PAW6K has a setting to flip the screen 180' allowing the use of a short interconnect vs the input locations, having the little extra length allowed me more flexibility, without having to flip the UI. I did not perceive any loss of SQ for the extra 6" in length but gained much more usability and was not putting any extra stain on the connectors. Anyone not using a DAP or Source that allows you to move the interface getting a 12" cable is highly recommended for the minimal cost change.
As to using the Rhodium Platted terminations. There has been many write ups on various pages here on Head-Fi (in The Effect Audio Thread and several others) that over gold or even straight copper TRRS/TRRRS plugs, the Rhodium platted plugs (Like PlusSounds, Effect Audio's, Eidolic or Furutech's) seem to add a little more smoothness to the sound. Also these plugs seem to wear much better than other platings I've tried, just as another bonus.
Eletech Iliad 4 wire 4.4mm Interconnect (Combination of Silver+gold Alloy, Pure Silver and Palladium Platted Silver 24 AWG wires) $329 + Shipping from Singapore)
Vs the SPC+/Silver+Gold cable mentioned above with the Iliad it started to move the sound out of my head, and started to give me better front to back (not completely but more so than the previous 2 cables which were definitely still in my head)
The veil on the highs are gone. Some nice Sub Bass rumble now there. Highs are nice and smooth but that might be because the mid highs are now clear, but I did notice with the Iliad there was a little less extension to the highs that the PlusSound Cable above
In general the cable is warm, inviting and VERY easy to listen to. the Iliad initially sound smoother, as it’s a little more “Mid Forward”
This interconnect has decent bass control and extension into the sub bass, and the highs are smooth and easy to listen to.
Many will stop here as going anywhere else will be a serious investment of money
I think the Iliad because of its use of larger diameter of the wires (24AWG vs 26 AWG) it does NOT loose anything to an 8 wire.
I was contemplating buying one of Eletech's 6 wire Iliad Interconnects (True ground on 2 wires) but seeing some of the comments early on in this C9 thread, saved the money and just went with the 4 wire.
The Iliad is a 8 (initially thought a “9” but looking to do a 12" wire it led me to the interconnect below that well blew the Iliad away, leaving it with an 8 rating)
But having tried a 12" interconnect and enjoying the benefits, I reached out to Eric about the cost of doing a 12" interconnect, and well given COVID and I guess some other projects they are backed up on, it just did not come to be, which led me to try another combination below
PlusSound X8, 8 wire custom 4.4mm interconnect using 4 wires of their Tri-Silver (Gold Platted Silver, Pure Silver, Palladium Platted Silver) and 4 wires of their Palladium Platted Hybrid (Palladium Platted Copper + Palladium Platted Silver) ($900-1200 depending on options and shipping)
Vs. the Iliad it has an clear cleaner soundstage that is now completely outside of my head
The effect on the sound for this cable I feel like I’m just sitting on stage as a guest of the performers. The Iliad I’m in the first 5 rows but not onstage,
Definitely extension on the highs that are clear and never goes to sibliance/shrill, and the sub bass now has an authoritative rumble, deep and clear
I think what I heard initially is the Iliad sounds smoother, but when you really start listening the clarity and pinpoint accuracy of this hybrid is what makes it a little more accurate but in turn maybe a little more "clinical" vs the Iliad, hence the difference in sound, but hands down a MUCH wider and deeper soundstage
There is quite a bit more Bass/Sub bass, and almost subwoofer like. Compared to the Iliad, NO CONTEST, there is just MUCH MORE Bass, and its tighter and clearer.
The mids are definitely less upfront/in your face than the Iliad, and I think the extra Mids is what makes the Iliad initially sound smoother.
But as I started listening for specific items, this Hybrid PPH/Tri-Silver is MUCH cleaner in the mids, much sharper. I can pinpoint specific sounds where in the Iliad they sometimes just get jumbled to the back. And like the first PlusSound cable above, just more air between/amongst the instruments and vocals.
The highs again are much clearer and much more focused and are really fun to listen to
Soundstage is JUST incredible. At least 1.5 to 2X wider than the Iliad left to right. Front to back HANDS DOWN much better.
The clarity I’m hearing is more “live sound” than a recording, I expect this will be the right investment for the Cayin C9 to reach fill potential
I give this a 9+ rating. Is there room for improvement? Well there always is so I've yet to hear what I think is a 10
It’s just the price that I’d say will make people pause with this interconnect, and what feeds the religious wars about cables.
If the Iliad is 90% there, will someone want to pay the extra to get to 100%? because of the costs I'll be selling the Iliad and the first PlusSound Cable to try and recover some investment
I think for some if they get a chance to listen to it, some will pull the trigger. but for most, nope, they can't justify the ROI. Again this is all In My Opinion (IMO) and Your Milage May Vary (YMMV)
the only other cable I was able to borrow but I do not know how much burn in time it had so did not want to give a full write up, is the iFi 4.4mm Interconnect
Its more expensive than the cheaper $25-45 interconncets out there, but it is listed as pure OCC- silver cable.
It is reasonably priced (less than $90 on Amazon in the US) but again since I did not know if the cable has burned in I don't want to give it a rating but during my time with it, had nice bass, a little more controlled, and decent mids, but there seem to be a peak in the Mid highs and again in the highs that on some tracks went to being sibilant and caused me to cringe a little. I honestly think this cable will sound good with burn in time/brain burn in, but for me having the other cables on hand, I just stopped listening to it.
For the Cayin C9 reviews if memory serves me correctly only Twister 6 did a small review within his review of the C9 about interconnects and how it influenced the end sound. (He used a Eletech Iliad, a Romy Audio Encryption Series Sensation IC Cable (Talk about a price heart attack) and DHC Silver)
If you've made it this far, thanks for reading and again this is what I hear and is just my opinion, but I hope it helps those who like their Cayin C9 but thought there should be more. There can be with a little time and investment. I'm thoroughly enjoying my investments and for now just sitting back and enjoying the sound
Pictures of the 4 interconnects
.
https://www.audiophileninja.com/product/4-4mm-balanced-interconnect/
Till now I was using the DX300(12) line out at maxed level and controlled the volume from the C9.
Today I switched to C9 pre mode to use it as a power amp and control the volume from the iBasso.
Much better sound quality and driving grip, with the AMP12 this mode is a great match.
After listening for a while with all the available flavors, I have to admit that Tube Class A is by far my beloved one.
Addicting!
Today I switched to C9 pre mode to use it as a power amp and control the volume from the iBasso.
Much better sound quality and driving grip, with the AMP12 this mode is a great match.
After listening for a while with all the available flavors, I have to admit that Tube Class A is by far my beloved one.
Addicting!
I'll have to try that. Are you still plugged into the DX300 line out port? IE. the left side?
Yes LO at the left, gain set to high and be careful with the volume, start from low setting not to blow your headphones!
Spawn300Z
1000+ Head-Fier
That’s how I use my C9 iPad Pro to the Chord Mojo to the C9 in PreAmp mode using the mojo for volume control. This amp is sick with my Diana V2s.
Damnit, I have the HD8XX but I am waiting for a 4.4mm cable and I am dying to test the combination.
I hope that I can combine the time lines.
I hope that I can combine the time lines.
Spawn300Z
1000+ Head-Fier
I just recieved my Black Dragon 4.4mm cable and just upgraded to the new iPad Pro 12.9 with the M1 chipset. I will be testing it out this weekend. I think it’s going to be great for movie watching too.can’t wait to hear the difference with balanced output.
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I have the HD800S and I pair it with DX312 + C9 and it sounds really great.
NJoyzAudio
100+ Head-Fier
HiFiHawaii808 (PS love the handle name!)
Thanks for that information
I did try other copper based cables, with mixed results
Glad you found one you liked
but seeing your post on other forums here in Head-Fi, want to just pass on this as it may interest you as I know your also chasing a specific sound signature!
Just like with Headphones/IEM's, the different cable material does have an impact on timbre and soundstage.
I know you enjoy a specific sound, and would encourage if you can borrow or buy different Interconnects as I found it did make a difference but it is in that additional 10%-20% sound change realm.
The question as I mentioned is how far does a person chase that elusive final 10%-20% of sound difference?
For me it was the "Return On Investment" (ROI) on my time, not having to burn in a new set of earphones or other HW and going beyond what I really like already.
I really liked the sound out of my Lotoo HW. But having seen a lot of the posts early on in this thread made me wonder so I rolled the dice and got the C9
While I was not disappointed with what I got, I felt there was only a marginal improvement and KNEW there was more to be had, so why I started tuning with the interconnect.
Is going to the extent I did with interconnect cables for everyone? Admittedly NO. but for me, it literally is the difference between staying with HW I like or having to pump even larger $'s into something like a Triallii with Aeneid or Centurion, or as you have moving to a Susvara or LCD-5 and then still a cable change, and then another amp.
no for me I've reached a place I enjoy what I'm hearing and know to eek out "just a little more sound" is even MORE higher $'s so again it is maximizing my ROI.
The only other thing I'll comment on as I also see from other posts you enjoy better ergonomics, that moving to a longer cable than the typical 4" or 6" length on the on the interconnect can allow you to position the source player comfortably without putting strain on the connectors, and really has no impact on sonics (shorter is better but staying around 12" is negligible for length from my own testing over the years)
Hope this information helps
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