Cans for Electronica, Dubstep, Hip Hop, Ambient
Sep 8, 2010 at 5:33 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 21

voncreme

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I have been considering buying a new pair of headphones in the $200-300 range. I would primarily use the cans for general music listening, gaming, and audio production. I am not concerned about these headphones being extremely accurate since I already have a pair of studio monitors, but it would be nice to do some mixing with headphones.
 
I listen primarily to electronic music (Aphex Twin / Autechre), dubstep, hip hop, jazz, and ambient music. I also have a very large FLAC and 96/24 bit collection, so a pair of cans that could show me the true potential of lossless audio would be great.
 
I have heard good things about the Denon AH-D2000's, but I heard an amplifier will only do it justice. Is there a pair of headphones in this price range that have a sound like the D2000's without the need for an amp? I will consider buying an amplifier, so long as it would be a good match.
 
Any suggestions? 
smile_phones.gif

 
Sep 8, 2010 at 5:42 PM Post #2 of 21
I can't speak for the D2000, but I have their big brother, the D7000, and I can safely say that they sound great out of anything, whether it be my iPhone or a fullsized desktop setup. You do, of course, sacrifice a little bit of clarity and impact when going unamped, but it's hardly enough to disregard them as a legitimate option. I'd say go for it. Their bass is absolutely to die for.
 
Sep 8, 2010 at 6:31 PM Post #3 of 21
Welcome to Head-Fi.
 
The D2000 would be worth looking at especially if you want more of a bass emphasis. It goes down fairly flat and extends very low without problem. The main problem I've encountered with the D2000 is when unamped it results in loss of soundstage and more notably boomy bass. When properly amped the bass tightens up but imo is still a little loose though not what I'd call boomy or muddy.
As for amping I believe SS is much preferred and is what I've had the most success out of thus far though I haven't owned a pure OTL yet....so take that for what it's worth.
 
Ultrasones may also be worth looking at in your range. Imo they are very hard to beat for trance and most other bass heavy music. The Pro series would probably be what you'd want.
 
Shure 840s would also be worth looking at.
 
Do you need isolation? Portability?
 
Sep 9, 2010 at 1:27 AM Post #4 of 21
We have similar tastes, and also have a collection of phones I use for production :wink: There is nothing wrong with a fun headphone to relax.
 
The d2000 tyou may want to listen to first, because I have read way too many people complain about muddy bottom end, and if you like IDM, and allit's subgenres, as well as dubstep, especially dub, because bassline is insanely important with dubstep, or any dub, and I know a lot of IDM with sub-bass youy just don't otherwise hear. I would rather that roll off than to be muddy. TThe D2000s can be modded though, with dynamat, but again, there are easier ways to get a kick back and nod your head phone.
 
I would look for the Sennheiser HD595, or better yet, the 555, that takes all of 20 minutes and basically no problems to bring them beyond the stock 595. It is a headphone that gives you a lot for the money, especially now since the 558 is coming, which can also be modded in the same exact way heh.
The driver in the 555 can move a ton of air and I used to use it exclusively for my personal listening when it came to electronic music, and I even produced a couple tracks with them. Easy to drive as welI would be careful of the k272/271 or k242/240 whatever the latest ones have been from AKG because, if you are ever going to plug them into a mixer or console, they will sound like garbage. (a certain opamp is used that puts out a lot of current at the expense of fidelity that most manufacturers love because it can drive many headphones.)
 
I had to spend a long time finding a good setting on the parametric EQ for my k271s, even then, my NAD preamp in the other room was magical with them, but the 240 seems hard to justify at all. Not sure about the MKII versions, but I know the versions right before were very dependant on synergy.
 
Look into Ultrasone... They make some nice headphones that are called monitors, but that brings me to the next idea, a Beyer DT770/80 with 880/990 pads is just amazing. I use my pair just to listen to music all the time. The 880, as well, is very good with the complex textures of electronic artists. The Shure 440s are said to be studio monitors, and they feel like it, look like it, but damn, after they break in, they offer some of the best sound from one end of the spectrum to the next, depending on tastes, the m50 rom AudioTechnica is either better or worse than the 440. The m50 certainly won't dissappoint. As purely a fun audiophile headphone, they fit in very well... Ultrasone is like that since so many of their phones look like monitors, and many people overlook the old DT770pro/80, but it delivers.
 
Sony has a couple headphones out that can be had new or used, that would sound great as a guilty pleasure can. One in the stores is the XB700, and the cx900 model can be found easily. Just buy extra pads for it... heh.
 
If I had to pick one headphone on my wall, where I have them on hangers I made, I would pick a Beyer or a Sennheiser HD555/595, or the 558 if it comes out soon, as it is the giant killer of the senn. refresh, and it is just as east, even easier, to get right up close to the HD600, but more fun. It has a driver with a huge dome, and it does respond to whqt you throw at it, but it isn't fatiguing. IT is covered in velour, and it is about 100 dollars or less. I bought mine when they came to a dealer here for 3 bills, now some get them for 90 dollars. The mod is so simple, you don't need to even bother with the wire mesh or the honeycomb, just rip the clot out from under the grille and pull off the rubber tape behind the drivers. Add some blue-taqc for some mass loading and wow... there are Autechre tracks that to this day, I cannot listen to on anything else, especially the first song off one of their later albums, "confield".
 
Also, I would truly and honestly recommend this with the left over cash from buying something like a dt770pro/80, or a senn HD595/555, even a Shure 440, since so far, they only seem to do electronic well, and other genres cause migrains. The 440s seem designed for the sound of production and DJ culture.
 
Anyway, check this out:  http://grantfidelity.com/site/catalog/52/tube_processors
 
The original B-283 can sound sweeter than the new one... and it is so inexpensive to add such a wonderful tube warmth to anything you plug it into... Take the analytical output of a mixer or a production/reference system, and place this after it and then wire this into your headphone amp, or just some isolated patch, something, anyay, the organic quality it adds is great. I have not bought the MKII because the previous biffers from GF and Yaqin, they used the tubes... the old Yaqin using a triode, so two channels in a single tube, and the B-283, two pentodes, only one signal can be run through a single one, so to have two, obviously... but the MKII uses a more powerful preamp tube, but without gain, of course, just with all I know about the b-283 original, the 6J1 model, it is a steal, and just grab some RCA 5654/6ak5 black plate tubes, even the ones from the 70s that I see on ebay all the time, and it sounds *good*. SO good, that I worry less about if a headphone is for monitoring, I only care about fidelity and synergy with my setup, as well as the bedroom studio. I have only ever had problems with a cheap pair of sony walkman phones that I composed a song for, that played awefully on the speakers... the best music I made, I made using the Senn HD555. It, and not it's new version, the 558, I can say for sure the HD555 is one neutral reliable piece of gear that will LAST. YOU also get to save an extra 100 dollars by  spending 10 minutes to do the mods.
 
 
 
i listen to a lot more intrumental post rock, prog rock, fusion, jazz, etc, even some that blurs the lines between what is electronic music? (Zoe Keating anyone?), but while I own a lot more headphones, the senns still have to be one of my most fun pairs. It is just easy to get into the music and atmosphere.
 
Sep 9, 2010 at 5:45 AM Post #5 of 21
I suggest considering the Ultrasone Proline 650, 750, or similar model. 
Quote:
I have been considering buying a new pair of headphones in the $200-300 range. I would primarily use the cans for general music listening, gaming, and audio production. I am not concerned about these headphones being extremely accurate since I already have a pair of studio monitors, but it would be nice to do some mixing with headphones.



 
Sep 9, 2010 at 7:37 AM Post #6 of 21
Okay, we listen to the same music (my collection is full of Aphex and Autechre - listened to LP5 last night).  I also have a tonne of squarepusher, u-ziq, boards of canada, plaid, cylob, luke vibert etc etc.
 
About 2 years ago I read through dozens of threads on the subject and I actually began compiling the answers of the most prolific head-fiers (who had experience with many headphones as opposed to a few).  Of the ~100 data points collected (non electrostatic), the DT880 had the most recommendations for this style of music with 16 votes, followed by the SA5000 with 12 votes.  The complete list is as follows:
 
DT880 - 16 votes
SA5000 - 12 votes
DT990 - 9 votes
AD2000 - 9 votes
Proline 750 - 7 votes
DT770 - 7 votes
Proline 2500 - 5 votes
D2000 - 5 votes
K701 - 4 votes
 
And then there were about 6 or 7 other headphones that garnered between 3 and 4 votes each.  Which headphones do I own?  The DT880 and SA5000 of course, and do I absolutely love them for electronoic music relative to the other headphones that I own or have heard /sold?  Yes I do! 
 
THe DT880 and the SA5000 are a touch light in the bass for some people who like pounding bass in their electronic music (therefore, the Proline 750, DT990, DT770, and D2000 are better choices), but the clarity and crunchy texture and quickness you get with the DT880 / SA5000 through a solid state amp are unbelievable. 
 
Sep 9, 2010 at 10:43 AM Post #8 of 21
Quote:
Okay, we listen to the same music (my collection is full of Aphex and Autechre - listened to LP5 last night).  I also have a tonne of squarepusher, u-ziq, boards of canada, plaid, cylob, luke vibert etc etc.
 
About 2 years ago I read through dozens of threads on the subject and I actually began compiling the answers of the most prolific head-fiers (who had experience with many headphones as opposed to a few).  Of the ~100 data points collected (non electrostatic), the DT880 had the most recommendations for this style of music with 16 votes, followed by the SA5000 with 12 votes.  The rest are as follows:
 
DT990 - 9 votes
ATH-AD2000 - 9 votes
Proline 750 - 7 votes
DT770 - 7 votes
Proline 2500 - 5 votes
D2000 - 5 votes
K701 - 4 votes
 
And then there were about 6 or 7 other headphones that garnered between 3 and 4 votes each.  Which headphones do I own?  The DT880 and SA5000 of course, and do I absolutely love them for electronoic music relative to the other headphones that I own or have heard /sold?  Yes I do! 
 
THe DT880 and the SA5000 are a touch light in the bass for some people who like pounding bass in their electronic music (therefore, the Proline 750, DT990, DT770, and D2000 are better choices), but the clarity and crunchy texture and quickness you get with the DT880 / SA5000 through a solid state amp are unbelievable. 


Wow that's nice I completely agree with the top 3 on the list. I wish I had done something like that when I was looking for my first set of cans. 
 
The only reason I wouldn't suggest the DT990 is that an amp ime is almost a necessity. The 250 ohm model was amazingly sibilant unamped and borderline tolerable with an amp. The mids were somewhat recessed but that was more of an annoyance. I still haven't heard the 600 ohm model but I should have some drivers coming the next few months.
 
The DT770 (pro version) was one of the worst cans I've tried unfortunately. The bass had incredible quantity (way too much for me though as it overpowered everything else) but the quality was lacking as it came off as boomy. The mids were also terribly recessed to the point of sounding hollow. While the highs were elevated somewhat and could be sibilant. The soundstage was good for a closed can and they made good closed gaming a movie cans but for music I feel other cans perform better. If you like a lot of bass this may be the way to go.
 
This is just my opinion and you could very well have a different one so I'd highly recommend trying them out before buying if at all possible. Do you have a Guitar Center close by?
 
As a fellow electronic fan, the Pro 650 or Pro 750 get my vote (if you can't an AD2000).
 
Sep 9, 2010 at 11:13 AM Post #9 of 21
Yep - I too was dissuaded in purchasing the DT770 (for fear of bass emphasis), the DT990 (for V-shaped response), and the Ultrasones (as the sound sig is highly controversial).  The DT880 came highly recommended, and its legendary status on head-fi as not only a superb electronica can, but also a very well balanced and all-rounder with great value made it a no-brainer in my book. 
 
My lust for the SA5000 came a while later, and I find it's great for jamming gobs of thick gooey electronic goodness into my ears when I'm working and don't have time to concentrate on the music. 
 
The Shure SRH440 suits electronic very well too.  My other headphones are decent with electronic, but my old Grado's were awful (great with rock, bad with electronic). 
 
Sep 9, 2010 at 11:30 AM Post #10 of 21
Wow, first off THANKS to everybody for your EXTREMELY useful and helpful comments! You guys rule 
jecklinsmile.gif

 
So I have been doing more research and have been looking through all of the headphones recommended here, and the DT880 really caught my eye. I have heard it has great sound all around - punchy, accurate bass, shimmering highs, but slightly hollow mids. I see there are different models with different OHM ratings, from 32, 250, 600 (as well as a Pro model). I have been considering an amp, but I may not have the money or maybe wouldn't even need them with these headphones. My original plan was to get a nice home setup and then have a pair of in-ears for my iPod. Now I am just considering using a model like the DT880's for everything. Depending on the model I decide to purchase (if I do even get the 880's), would an amp be required for decent sound? Is there a pair of cans for around that price that don't require an amp to not sound completely crappy?
 
Sep 9, 2010 at 1:23 PM Post #11 of 21


Quote:
Wow, first off THANKS to everybody for your EXTREMELY useful and helpful comments! You guys rule 
jecklinsmile.gif

 
So I have been doing more research and have been looking through all of the headphones recommended here, and the DT880 really caught my eye. I have heard it has great sound all around - punchy, accurate bass, shimmering highs, but slightly hollow mids. I see there are different models with different OHM ratings, from 32, 250, 600 (as well as a Pro model). I have been considering an amp, but I may not have the money or maybe wouldn't even need them with these headphones. My original plan was to get a nice home setup and then have a pair of in-ears for my iPod. Now I am just considering using a model like the DT880's for everything. Depending on the model I decide to purchase (if I do even get the 880's), would an amp be required for decent sound? Is there a pair of cans for around that price that don't require an amp to not sound completely crappy?

 
So happy you asked.  I'm not really sold on the huge sound quality differences "some" people claim to hear between the different impedance Beyers (32ohm, 250ohm, 600ohm).  I have started a whole thread dedicated to the topic and if you're an objectivist like I am, you too will likely conclude that SQ differences are mostly imaginary and the marketing department over at beyerdynamic likes to take advantage of this mythical notion.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/506963/dt880-600ohm-bs
 
As for the PRO - it is the same as the 250ohm DT880 Premiumline except with slightly different decor on the cups, a wrap-snap replaceable headband, and a tighter clamping force.  Beyerdynamic will tell you how incredibly different they are, but it appears that everything is the same except the headband clamp force (which could potentially increase bass slightly and possibly reduce soundstage FWIR).  A 32ohm DT880 will sound superb out of most anything except high output impedance amps, and the 250ohms will sound fine on most amps that put out 5V of juice.  Many integrated headphone outs should handle it fine, and some head-fiers plug em straight into their laptop output.  The 600ohm version is more suited for studio amps (like mine) that crank out serious voltage and will allow more control over the volume potentiometer.  It is also my experience that a $200 competently built amp will make the DT880s sound just as good as a $10000 audiofool amp, and the evidence flying around audio engineering circles would have to agree. 
 
Sep 9, 2010 at 2:42 PM Post #12 of 21
Same taste in music here and I have to admit I perfer my Ultrasone HFI-780 to the DT770 pro in every aspect. Besides the comfort issues they are my "go to" can when listening to the majority of my music followed by the HD-650. Still waiting on trying out a pair denons/other beyers to see what else is out there but I highly recommend the ultrasones
 
Sep 9, 2010 at 4:35 PM Post #13 of 21
I am almost positive I have made my decision to go with the DT880's. Here is what I ended up making my final choices in the end:

The DT880's really appeal to me in the types of music I listen to. I haven't heard too much about the bass but as long as it will pack the punch and smoothness for hip hop and dubstep I will be very happy. I know the highs are amazing with these and thats another plus. I am leaning towards the 32 ohm version because I heard it handles much better without an amp on an iPod. People say that the 250 ohm version does terrible on an unamped source (not nearly loud enough and with underpowered sound), but I don't know who to believe! Would I even get better sound from an amp with the 32 ohm version compared to the 250 ohm version? I looked through that thread and I know that sound QUALITY straight from the headphones doesn't differ much in the different versions, but what about amplification potential?
 
And also, where would be a good place to buy these? I saw them on amazon for around $250 does that seem right?
 
Sep 9, 2010 at 4:59 PM Post #14 of 21

 
Quote:
I am almost positive I have made my decision to go with the DT880's. Here is what I ended up making my final choices in the end:

The DT880's really appeal to me in the types of music I listen to. I haven't heard too much about the bass but as long as it will pack the punch and smoothness for hip hop and dubstep I will be very happy. I know the highs are amazing with these and thats another plus. I am leaning towards the 32 ohm version because I heard it handles much better without an amp on an iPod. People say that the 250 ohm version does terrible on an unamped source (not nearly loud enough and with underpowered sound), but I don't know who to believe! Would I even get better sound from an amp with the 32 ohm version compared to the 250 ohm version? I looked through that thread and I know that sound QUALITY straight from the headphones doesn't differ much in the different versions, but what about amplification potential?
 
And also, where would be a good place to buy these? I saw them on amazon for around $250 does that seem right?


Let me be frank, others may disagree with me, but technically the purpose of an amp is to make the volume louder (that's it that's all).  To some, louder = better sound, which psychoacoustics has confirmed (hence the reason for strict volume matched ABX testing when comparing headphones).  You can get amps that colour the sound, but most pro headphone amps, and many other audiophile amps simply amplify the signal by increasing the voltage when you turn the dial without changing the FQ response, and without adding distortion - it's no big feat in the 21st century.  Many portable devices are battery powered, and thus the voltage is limited - that's where the 32ohm come in as they draw little voltage at the expense of current, which most devices are quite capable of delivering.  The spec is 96db @ 1mW if I recall for the DT880, so not much power will be needed for the 32ohm, and IMO an amp won't be necessary.  The 250ohm version can get loud enough from most of my sources, but JUST loud enough for my tastes, and without enough voltage you run into the chance of distortion or clipping when you hit the voltage rails. 
 
And no - using an amp on a lower impedance headphone won't necessarily give you better results compared to a high impedance headphone unless you need more volume. 
 
Sep 11, 2010 at 1:58 AM Post #15 of 21

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