[estreeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkweg /img/forum/go_quote.gif How many DBT you done? Oh, right, none.

milweg, we need to bring you up to speed with the way the audiophile mind works - if dbt produces a result that an audiophile is unhappy with, all dbt is then cast out as heretical and of little practical value. Lets disregard the fact that most audiophools wouldnt know 'practical value' if it bit them on the butt, but somewhere in the mania that goes with paying two hundred bucks for 1/2 a metre of cable any desire to listen to music objectively goes out the window.

I can live with the idea that you dont have to let DBT results rule your life, and I also accept that placating our neuroses has value in itself, but some Head-Fiers are off with the fairies, IMO. Those of us who are happy to listen to compressed music should be overjoyed that we dont lie awake at night wondering if there is too much oxygen in our interconnects.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkweg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yea, sure. That's why many higher end surround amps now come with interface to access your MP3s, because they are so ****ty. I don't need to convince myself of anything because i have already scientifically proven to myself that you are FOS. How many DBT you done? Oh, right, none.

I work with most of the audio formats on a daily basis, I have a mastering studio.

 

[dallan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkweg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think he means only MP3, OGG type compression. Flac does not remove frequencies like MP3 and OGG, they decompress when played like a zip file so are an exact duplicate of the original.

I was trying to get my computer audio closer to my cd to the same dac and with each thing i did(like adding asio/different players/foobar), listening very carefully I could hear it get closer and closer. When i was a hair off I realized i was using flac files and much to my disbelief, after converting the music i was comparing to WAV files I could tell it came closer to the cd audio. I went back to the Flac lossless and verified that listening closely you can even hear the difference between those. I was very surprised.

With a system that is not detailed or cheaper you probably can get by with compressed audio but after dumping tons of money into it why would you, especially when with that level you can hear the difference.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif If we are talking about high bit-rate MP3s, ie 320K CBR, then I don't think most people can hear a difference. I have, under certain circumstances, flattered myself that I can, but the differences have always been subtle. Of course, differences become more and more apparent as the quality of the reproducing system improves. On the other hand, for years 128K MP3s were touted as "CD quality," which is just plain bull. At that level of compression, 90 percent of the original information has been sucked out of the file. Plenty of audible material has been chucked, and that's apparent even on modest portable equipment. So the question is, where do you draw the line, and why would you want to? With broadband connections routinely offering 10 Mbps and up, download times are not a problem for .flacs and even for .wav's. Similarly, with storage available for less than 10 cents per gig, space is not an issue either. I just don't see the need for compression at this point.

amen brother!

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif So the question is, where do you draw the line, and why would you want to? With broadband connections routinely offering 10 Mbps and up, download times are not a problem for .flacs and even for .wav's. Similarly, with storage available for less than 10 cents per gig, space is not an issue either. I just don't see the need for compression at this point. I have a subscription to eMusic, and I would drop them like a hot rock if someone would offer me the same selection in .flac format.

Dr, you really need to make a few house calls in locations outside of the continental US. In a country like Oz, with a small population spread across a huge area, we rarely see anything like 10Mbps speeds, and we pay through the nose for plans offering as little as a single GB per month. We still need compression, and how.

Even if our entire broadband network had a major upgrade when I woke up tomorrow, does anyone ever stop and ask when we'll reach the finite physical limit of all the switches that shuffle those files back and forward might actually be ? We can lay fibre from one end of the country to the other, but the data centres that relay all that traffic aren't cheap. We need compression.

 

[Gamerphile]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dr, you really need to make a few house calls in locations outside of the continental US. In a country like Oz, with a small population spread across a huge area, we rarely see anything like 10Mbps speeds, and we pay through the nose for plans offering as little as a single GB per month. We still need compression, and how. Even if our entire broadband network had a major upgrade when I woke up tomorrow, does anyone ever stop and ask when we'll reach the finite physical limit of all the switches that shuffle those files back and forward might actually be ? We can lay fibre from one end of the country to the other, but the data centres that relay all that traffic aren't cheap. We need compression.

Imagine hundreds of optic fibers in supercomputer size switches. Currently 10Gbit per second - going 40 very soon if not already...

Here in most places of the EU private parcel or business typically can get 100/100 Mbit optic fiber connections with flat rates (no misuse agreement but no hard set limit) for candy by paying 500-1K USD in digging and setup costs.

And up to 100Mbit wireless is around the corner... Just you wait and see. I'll make a bitty blog about it...

Feel your mood thought.. live in a rented place so no chance for optical connections as all 160 other apartments had to agree and can only get a 6MBit/1MBit connection even with ADSL2+ and all. And I'm an IT engineer student working with communication technology with one of these internet super routers nodes on right in my campus sector. If I've lived on campus ironically I would have shared a gigabit pipe right into this node with only a few hundred people.

Sorry for the OT

 

[DoYouRight]

I only hear a difference in some recordings. due to the sampling rate like vinyl ripped flacs

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif milweg, we need to bring you up to speed with the way the audiophile mind works - if dbt produces a result that an audiophile is unhappy with, all dbt is then cast out as heretical and of little practical value. Lets disregard the fact that most audiophools wouldnt know 'practical value' if it bit them on the butt, but somewhere in the mania that goes with paying two hundred bucks for 1/2 a metre of cable any desire to listen to music objectively goes out the window. I can live with the idea that you dont have to let DBT results rule your life, and I also accept that placating our neuroses has value in itself, but some Head-Fiers are off with the fairies, IMO. Those of us who are happy to listen to compressed music should be overjoyed that we dont lie awake at night wondering if there is too much oxygen in our interconnects.

Yes, that's why one fairly well know person in the industry calls them idiophiles instead of audiophiles.

 

[Wiza_Gab]

To me it's getting crazy good by 256kbps MP3 so yes.

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif I work with most of the audio formats on a daily basis, I have a mastering studio.

Looking at frequency graphs tells you jack all. You need to use your ears and not your eyes. How many DBT you done again?

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was trying to get my computer audio closer to my cd to the same dac and with each thing i did(like adding asio/different players/foobar), listening very carefully I could hear it get closer and closer. When i was a hair off I realized i was using flac files and much to my disbelief, after converting the music i was comparing to WAV files I could tell it came closer to the cd audio. I went back to the Flac lossless and verified that listening closely you can even hear the difference between those. I was very surprised.

We had someone claim the same thing in the computer audio forum and everyone came to the conclusion that he was living in La-La land. When you zip a photo and then decompress it does it look any dif from the original before you zipped it? Exactly.

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif amen brother!

Disagree. If I didn't use MP3 I would need at least 3 1TB HDDs instead of 1 500GB HDD.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Of course I can enjoy lossy music, but all I have on my HD is .FLAC and .WV. I am not going to lie, I doubt I could ever pass a PROPERLY set up DBT with a well encoded mp3 (LAME 192VBR or so... not some lousy 128kb/s garbage) and a .WAV or .FLAC. I really have no desire to fail or pass one either. My motives for going exclusively lossless is not because I am some uber audiophile, but rather for archival purposes. Once I rip an album to the HD, I have an identical copy to do what I want with. I can then export an .mp3 version of it for portable players and whatnot.

I paid for that album, I want to "hear" every bit contained on it. HDs are cheap, so the space requirements are not a big deal.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkweg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Disagree. If I didn't use MP3 I would need at least 3 1TB HDDs instead of 1 500GB HDD.

wow three x £60 is such a vast sum of money. Vast.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkweg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looking at frequency graphs tells you jack all. You need to use your ears and not your eyes. How many DBT you done again?

What's going on with you, dude? The things that you are assuming are only in your own experience. You're assuming that if you don't hear a difference, then nobody should hear a difference and this is crossing the line to absurdity. I really don't care if you hear a difference or not. But you can not tell people what they have heard or what they have experienced, because you can only have your own experience...and yours is apparently limited.

Now I'll tell you something about your DBTs. People send me files to be mastered in mp3 format and obviously, no professional mastering engineer will master an mp3 file. Guess why, genius! When I ask these people to send the files again in WAV or AIFF format, they'll transfer the mp3 to a WAV and then send it back to me. When I tell them that it's same file, they'll argue with me exactly as you are and try to convince me that there's no difference and that mp3 is a great format and the transfer from mp3 to WAV is fine. So, this is my test. I can hear the difference because it's required for me to do my work as a mastering engineer. My ears have to be able to detect subtle nuances and this is something that is achieved through experience over time.