[jeffreyw311]

So where are you proposing the lapse in quality control is?
Variance in chamber volume, or selection of drivers from the get go?

No idea, I didn’t design these IEMs. I don’t know the crossover circuit, how the drivers are arranged in the shell or how air produced by the BA driver get to the ear. From memory, Campfire has a novel method for their BA drivers that’s different from the typical flexible tube arrangement that the majority of IEM manufacturers used so who the hell knows.

Either way, the production methods are consistent enough that all Solaris samples have the same rough sound signature. There’s enough quality control that similarly performing samples are clearly being paired with each other. In all likelihood the whole different samples thing probably wouldn’t have been a problem without people measuring different samples since opinion differences would have been dismissed as just that.

 

[Kitechaser]

What are you saying, exactly? I'm not sure I follow. And did you even read the part about repeated measurements being consistent?

What I am saying is either Campfire is knowingly pairing drivers with up to 15db of variance, Which it has no history of doing, and frankly no real reason to do either. Or, something is up with the measurements.

Variance in chamber volume is ruled out because it would affect the DD just as much as the other drivers, and that is clearly not the case, and matching left right channels with up to 15dbs of fluctuations would be close to impossible.

 

[echineko]

What I am saying is either Campfire is knowingly pairing drivers with up to 15db of variance, Which it has no history of doing, and frankly no real reason to do either. Or, something is up with the measurements.

Variance in chamber volume is ruled out because it would affect the DD just as much as the other drivers, and that is clearly not the case.x and matching left right channels with1up to 15dbs of fluctuations would be close to impossible.

Yes, from a manufacturing standpoint I don't think it's worth speculating, only CFA really know what's up. As for measurements, would be good if others in SG could get around to measuring the 3 demos. More data points can only help.

 

[jeffreyw311]

What I am saying is either Campfire is knowingly pairing drivers with up to 15db of variance, Which it has no history of doing, and frankly no real reason to do either. Or, something is up with the measurements.

They aren’t pairing left and right channels with 15dB of variance so stop lying with that train of thought. All Solaris pairs measured by Crinacle are consistent enough between 20-10khz. Anything above 10khz will always be inconsistent regardless of how expensive your measurement rig is.

The problem is Solaris Sample A don’t sound the same as Solaris Sample B, not left channel is 15dB different in parts to right channel of the same sample pair. Crinacle and others have confirmed this by listening to them as well as measuring them.

Variance in chamber volume is ruled out because it would affect the DD just as much as the other drivers, and that is clearly not the case, and matching left right channels with up to 15dbs of fluctuations would be close to impossible.

There are no 15dB fluxations in any of his measurements. Link the graphs you are referring to.

 

[davidmolliere]

Can we not derail the thread?

Let’s just report this kind of FUD posts, this is all smoke to derail the thread and spread unfounded rumors... which can happen in the various places where Solaris bashing is trendy but let’s hope it stops here

Note that I am not talking about negative feedback or impressions which are a good thing so that every side of the feedback is heard... just not unfounded statements that pop out of nowhere...

 

[Penguino]

Was that the experience with the Andromeda? Huge variances?
Campfire has been doing this for years.
Like I said earlier it's either Campfire is knowingly pairing drivers with variances up to 15db, or something is up with the measurements.
Only @KB can settle this.
Or we all wait till more review measurements that confirm this.

Did you not read my post? I suggested that because the mid range BA was ported it may be causing this issue. Normal BAs are a closed system that does not normally vent. The mid range in this IEM does.

 

[Kitechaser]

They aren’t pairing left and right channels with 15dB of variance so stop lying with that train of thought. All Solaris pairs measured by Crinacle are consistent enough between 20-10khz. Anything above 10khz will always be inconsistent regardless of how expensive your measurement rig is.

The problem is Solaris Sample A don’t sound the same as Solaris Sample B, not left channel is 15dB different in parts to right channel of the same sample pair. Crinacle and others have confirmed this by listening to them as well as measuring them.



There are no 15dB fluxations in any of his measurements. Link the graphs you are referring to.

The 15 db variations is from pair to pair. Look at the graphs you guys linked.

 

[Penguino]

Can we not derail the thread?

Let’s just report this kind of FUD posts, this is all smoke to derail the thread and spread unfounded rumors... which can happen in the various places where Solaris bashing is trendy

Unfounded is not the word I would put to what I am suggesting nor what is being discussed. I gave plenty of disclaimer that what I am suggesting is not factually correct and pure speculation. I do not think anyone should take what I am saying as fact. If you wish to dismiss them as that you may but I feel like you are missing out on a good conversation by doing so.

 

[jeffreyw311]

Can we not derail the thread?

Let’s just report this kind of FUD posts, this is all smoke to derail the thread and spread unfounded rumors... which can happen in the various places where Solaris bashing is trendy

I dunno, it doesn’t sound like FUD to me.

Crinacle goes in to a hifi store and listens to one pair. He doesn’t like how it sounds and provides measurements of that sample. He goes to another place to try their Solaris and likes it a lot better. He also provides measurements of that sample. Sample A measured a lot different to Sample B, confirming that he isn’t insane.

He’s gone to yet another hifi store to try another pair and he thinks it sounds alright. He provides measurements of that and they’re yet again different from the other two pairs. He goes back to the first store to measure the effect of tips and he gets little difference outside of the foam tips. He also measures the same pair with the same tips as before and they measure identically to what he measured the first time.

That doesn’t sound like FUD. That’s someone who did enough investigation to figure out why he liked one sample pair much more than the other sample pair. If this is FUD, feel free to explain what one has to do to prove product variance in audio hardware?

 

[davidmolliere]

I am no expert in measurements, let’s say I do measurement and discover a HUGE anomaly if I was a scientific mind I would try to confirm this by measuring with a different equipment. The little I have read about measurements seem to indicate that measurements especially for IEMs are tricky...

If I was investigating this I would be getting the same units measured by a pro and also by the manufacturer as I think Campfire is an honest bunch and the constructive attitude would be to bring this up to them. If there is a QC issue they’ll want to get ahead of this of course, thinking otherwise makes no sense. Ah and especially since they do have a track record, and are a reputable brand.

 

[patzispatz]

 

[Kitechaser]

Did you not read my post? I suggested that because the mid range BA was ported it may be causing this issue. Normal BAs are a closed system that does not normally vent. The mid range in this IEM does.

If the ported design of the mid range BA was susceptible to having variations of up to 15dbs, not just on 1 spot but several, it would be impossible to match both channels. The variances are matched on each set.
Not trying to dodge your point.
The graphs are telling a story that have more than a few holes.
And you know how I am with graphs anyways.
If this variance is real, more sets will show up eventually. Till then, not much to go on honestly.
Put out the torches. Grab a beer.
Enjoy the music.

 

[Penguino]

I am no expert in measurements, let’s say I do measurement and discover a HUGE anomaly if I was a scientific mind I would try to confirm this by measuring with a different equipment. The little I have read about measurements seem to indicate that measurements especially for IEMs are tricky...

If I was investigating this I would be getting the same units measured by a pro and also by the manufacturer as I think Campfire is an honest bunch and the constructive attitude would be to bring this up to them. If there is a QC issue they’ll want to get ahead of this of course, thinking otherwise makes no sense. Ah and especially since they do have a track record, and are a reputable brand.

I think you need to know what you’re doing so just purchasing the gear and test would not be any proof of anything except maybe adding noise because of further inconsistent results could also be a product of the method for measuring itself...

are you implying someone with the biggest iem database that is used regularly by this whole community does not know what they are doing? I feel like that is frankly insulting to him. We all put hours if not days of our lives into this hobby. Why doubt someone spending so much time doing this?

 

[jeffreyw311]

I am no expert in measurements, let’s say I do measurement and discover a HUGE anomaly if I was a scientific mind I would try to confirm this by measuring with a different equipment. The little I have read about measurements seem to indicate that measurements especially for IEMs are tricky...

What Crinacle has measured isn't a huge anomaly. Explain what the anomaly is. A lot of headphones and IEMs have specific peaks and dips for specific tuning purposes. You're suggesting him to use a different rig for what purpose? The only reason someone would want to use a different rig is if they wanted to massage the numbers, like if they want to hide the 6khz peak on the Sennheiser HD800 or Sony EX1000 to make them look better by using a rig

The problem here isn't the 4khz gulf on one sample, the problem is the inconsistency between samples. If you want to compare samples, you obviously want to use the same methods and hardware. You're isolating the variables to a single variable: the sample itself.

If I was investigating this I would be getting the same units measured by a pro and also by the manufacturer as I think Campfire is an honest bunch and the constructive attitude would be to bring this up to them. If there is a QC issue they’ll want to get ahead of this of course, thinking otherwise makes no sense. Ah and especially since they do have a track record, and are a reputable brand.

Toyota is a reputable brand known for reliable cars yet they had breaking software problems that resulted in major accidents and deaths. Just because someone is reputable doesn't mean they don't make mistakes.

 

[davidmolliere]

are you implying someone with the biggest iem database that is used regularly by this whole community does not know what they are doing? I feel like that is frankly insulting to him. We all put hours if not days of our lives into this hobby. Why doubt someone spending so much time doing this?

That’s not what I am saying nor implying.

I am just saying measurements are tricky and when something that big comes up this warrants a double check don’t you think?
If I was crinacle that would be my first reflex, get this checked because 15dB seems like a HUGE anomaly anyway that could be heard right away as defective...

Well then you learn how to do it?

I am not in the business not sure a pro would take the time to train me if I myself had the time nor the inclination to learn this or invest in a pro equipment I couldn’t possibly justify paying for...