[SteveK27]

The fact that SM, timeless and S12 use the absolutely same driver from the literally same factory in China, and SM is even more v-shaped than timeless and probably as much as the S12, I can't think of a reason to get this when something like the shuoer s12 is 120$ pretty much permanently(even timeless is just 200$). Through a bit of eq they can sound the same, and reshell s12 or timeless won't really cost much if you want to go custom.

Having demoed both iems, I can tell you they differ much beyond tuning difference.

EQ can help you achieve a similar tonality, but won't ever mimic the technical performance of what the supermoon is capable of.

What you are suggesting is akin to all BA iems with the same Sonion and Knowles BA sounding identical to each other if tuned exactly the same. Implementation is just as important as the driver that is being utilized. I suggest you demo the supermoon to hear the difference - and it won't even cost you a dollar.

 

[Silco]

Ehhh, EQ won’t make the Timeless sound like Supermoon. Timeless cannot compete with Supermoon stage and imaging capabilities, but if that’s not important to you then it’s whatever. Overall the Supermoon is tiers above Timeless for me when I had them both to demo.

At that price, if you want stage + v shaped sound sig, UM Mest + Z1r exist.

 

[Rockwell75]

At that price, if you want stage + v shaped sound sig, UM Mest + Z1r exist.

The fact that SM, timeless and S12 use the absolutely same driver from the literally same factory in China, and SM is even more v-shaped than timeless and probably as much as the S12, I can't think of a reason to get this when something like the shuoer s12 is 120$ pretty much permanently(even timeless is just 200$). Through a bit of eq they can sound the same, and reshell s12 or timeless won't really cost much if you want to go custom.

With all due respect your opinion is valueless if you have not heard the IEM-- and it will only serve to muddy the water and confuse people who come to these threads in the hopes of finding good information. I own the Supermoon and used to own the Timeless (and the IER Z1R and MEST for that matter) and the Supermoon is leagues ahead in terms of technical chops across the board-- resolution, imaging, staging, detail retrieval etc. There is no IEM on the market right now IMHO that can compete with the Supermoon in terms of the one-two punch of coherence and resolution.

 

[rudbeard]

I've been daily driving the Timeless (my second pair, QC problems) as office-IEMs and I promise you that their tuning and planar character make them incredible value for the money. The Timeless don't match even the Orion CK for imaging (neither as holographic or anything more than <3 blob). The Orion CK has a lot of other tuning and extension issues but I still use the Orion/Comet/Tin T3 as backpack/travel IEMs.

I wish they would release the Supermoon as a universal with option for custom, I wonder if that's because if as a CIEMs keeps it in more manageable batch sizes for QC and design iterations.

 

[Rockwell75]

I've been daily driving the Timeless (my second pair, QC problems) as office-IEMs and I promise you that their tuning and planar character make them incredible value for the money.

I never meant to deny that. Timeless is far and away the best IEM you can get for $200 right now...but Supermoon is significantly better and, in fact, is a steal for its price imho.

 

[gLer]

With all due respect your opinion is valueless if you have not heard the IEM-- and it will only serve to muddy the water and confuse people who come to these threads in the hopes of finding good information. I own the Supermoon and used to own the Timeless (and the IER Z1R and MEST for that matter) and the Supermoon is leagues ahead in terms of technical chops across the board-- resolution, imaging, staging, detail retrieval etc. There is no IEM on the market right now IMHO that can compete with the Supermoon in terms of the one-two punch of coherence and resolution.

Agreed, as the world's #1 IER-Z1R fan, I can tell you the Supermoon is very special when it comes to technical ability. I'm also not sure where the idea that CFA uses the same driver as the cheaper IEMs comes from. Even so, same driver does not mean same implementation, acoustic chamber or other R&D design tweaks that separate high-end IEMs from the cheapies. Lastly, I don't hear SM as V-shaped - midrange notes are clear, crisp and nowhere near recessed.

 

[Rockwell75]

Agreed, as the world's #1 IER-Z1R fan, I can tell you the Supermoon is very special when it comes to technical ability. I'm also not sure where the idea that CFA uses the same driver as the cheaper IEMs comes from. Even so, same driver does not mean same implementation, acoustic chamber or other R&D design tweaks that separate high-end IEMs from the cheapies. Lastly, I don't hear SM as V-shaped - midrange notes are clear, crisp and nowhere near recessed.

Classic case of graphs not telling the whole story. In this case the insane resolution coupled with how disciplined and tight the bass is means you get a slight v-shape with minimal sacrifices to the mids. IMHO given what is usually the case it's quite misleading to dismiss the Supermoon as just another v-shaped IEM. But for God sakes at least listen to it before passing judgement.

 

[gLer]

Classic case of graphs not telling the whole story. In this case the insane resolution coupled with how disciplined and tight the bass is means you get a slight v-shape with minimal sacrifices to the mids. IMHO given what is usually the case it's quite misleading to dismiss the Supermoon as just another v-shaped IEM. But for God sakes at least listen to it before passing judgement.

Agree, judging without listening = meaningless.

 

[aaf evo]

At that price, if you want stage + v shaped sound sig, UM Mest + Z1r exist.

Yeah sorry they also don’t sound like Supermoon, the planar driver gives off a different presentation than both. I suggest letting your own ears be the judge rather than just making assumptions.

 

[Schugar]

With all due respect your opinion is valueless if you have not heard the IEM-- and it will only serve to muddy the water and confuse people who come to these threads in the hopes of finding good information. I own the Supermoon and used to own the Timeless (and the IER Z1R and MEST for that matter) and the Supermoon is leagues ahead in terms of technical chops across the board-- resolution, imaging, staging, detail retrieval etc. There is no IEM on the market right now IMHO that can compete with the Supermoon in terms of the one-two punch of coherence and resolution.

Not that I doubt or disagree with the statement I'm just curious of the context for it being the best for detail retrieval. I'm a bit new here from a posting degree (long time "lurker") so forgive me if I come across poorly, but there isn't a lot solid evidence to suggest that yet if I'm not mistaken? What lead me here in the first place is there isn't a lot of information on the Supermoon currently being that it is relatively new and finding good consistent information in general on CIEMs is a bit of a chore. I'm in the market for a CIEM and the mest mk2 and a12t are at the top of my list for tuning, tonality, and detail retrieval. I've also demoed the universal mest mk2 and u12t and with maybe the exception of the mest I'm not expecting the a12t to have the exact same tuning as the u12t just close (I've read it is a tad more relaxed for the a12t).

That said most of the impressions I've seen including your's are based on using the universal set where there is likely to be some unit variance between the universal and custom sets and leads me to question whether the statement of it being the most resolving is a valid one to be taken as majority opinion at this juncture given the lack of information. I know there are a lot of fans of the Solstice and Equinox where the touted opinion of them being very good in the various different capacities mentioned for them is a minority view (from what I can tell) and tuning for them is rather poor not to begrudge any owners of them or to say that they are wrong for enjoying them. I myself own an Empire Ears Hero and it is my fun guilty pleasure IEM that isn't exactly ticking those boxes either nor most people's cup of tea.

For all the devil's advocating I just did there aside (which again I hope you won't take the wrong way) I have listened to the timeless and S12 and do want to know how the bass control is for the Supermoon in comparison because I didn't much care for either of the latter in that department. I'm having impressions done in September and the Supermoon does peak my interest as a potential option I may want to demo before I pull the trigger on the mest mk2 or a12t. The whole planar IEM movement in general has me excited being that I have already a decent collection of planar headphones that are my listening preferences over the dynamic ones I own. I'm not going to lie I'm a bit leery of campfire audio right now because while the andros are great and I actually like the ara as well most of the other sets for universal I'm not a fan of and they don't have as good of a sterling reputation as they used to so since getting a CIEM is a larger commitment on my part I want to know as much as I can before I go out of my way to add another time table on getting a demo pair of the supermoon to a already large amount of time spent looking into the mest/a12t. I've probably already spent months to get to just those two as final options that I feel like I'll be more than happy with as a CIEM.

Thanks and Cheers!

 

[Rockwell75]

Not that I doubt or disagree with the statement I'm just curious of the context for it being the best for detail retrieval.

Just my own impressions and those of a few others I know. I can only go by what I've owned and heard (if you're curious about that take a look at my sig). I have owned the Timeless but I have not heard the S12-- but I've also not heard the S12 being described as the substantial step up from the Timeless that I believe he Supermoon is. For me the Supermoon comprises a raising of the bar in terms of technical performance in closed back IEMs. (The LCDi4 shares similarities but that's an open back and not really an IEM in the normal sense.) In terms of assessing whether or not Supermoon is the best at this or that there's really no substitute for hearing for yourself so if you have the means I strongly encourage checking it out.

I'm a bit new here from a posting degree (long time "lurker") so forgive me if I come across poorly, but there isn't a lot solid evidence to suggest that yet if I'm not mistaken?

I've heard a lot of great IEMs-- including most that get talked about regularly in TOTL circles. For me the testimony of my own ears is all the evidence I need. YMMV.

That said most of the impressions I've seen including your's are based on using the universal set where there is likely to be some unit variance between the universal and custom sets and leads me to question whether the statement of it being the most resolving is a valid one to be taken as majority opinion at this juncture given the lack of information. I know there are a lot of fans of the Solstice and Equinox where the touted opinion of them being very good in the various different capacities mentioned for them is a minority view (from what I can tell) and tuning for them is rather poor not to begrudge any owners of them or to say that they are wrong for enjoying them. I myself own an Empire Ears Hero and it is my fun guilty pleasure IEM that isn't exactly ticking those boxes either nor most people's cup of tea.

I've never heard the custom but a few people I know have and their impressions don't differ in any significant way from mine of my universal.

 

[Schugar]

Just my own impressions and those of a few others I know. I can only go by what I've owned and heard (if you're curious about that take a look at my sig). I have owned the Timeless but I have not heard the S12-- but I've also not heard the S12 being described as the substantial step up from the Timeless that I believe he Supermoon is. For me the Supermoon comprises a raising of the bar in terms of technical performance in closed back IEMs. (The LCDi4 shares similarities but that's an open back and not really an IEM in the normal sense.) In terms of assessing whether or not Supermoon is the best at this or that there's really no substitute for hearing for yourself so if you have the means I strongly encourage checking it out.



I've heard a lot of great IEMs-- including most that get talked about regularly in TOTL circles. For me the testimony of my own ears is all the evidence I need. YMMV.




I've never heard the custom but a few people I know have and their impressions don't differ in any significant way from mine of my universal.

Thanks for your reply. To me the timeless is better than the S12 for tuning overall and I'd prefer it, but the main thing I don't really care for out of either is the bass. How does the Supermoon relate as far as bass control and coherence if you don't mind me asking?

As far as the rest the only reason I question is anything labeled as "best XYZ" are bold claims that aren't necessarily unwarranted just in statement make me think "are they that good?" then it leads me down the road of "I got to get these!" if you know what I mean.

 

[Zachik]

I can tell you the Supermoon is very special when it comes to technical ability.

Ready to change your signature, altering "No DD, no dice"?

 

[gLer]

Ready to change your signature, altering "No DD, no dice"?

Not yet but I'll keep you posted

 

[Rockwell75]

Thanks for your reply. To me the timeless is better than the S12 for tuning overall and I'd prefer it, but the main thing I don't really care for out of either is the bass. How does the Supermoon relate as far as bass control and coherence if you don't mind me asking?

The bass of the Supermoon is wonderful. This is Campfire Audio we're talking about and it's clear that tuning the bass was a dominant factor in the development of this IEM. It's impactful, nimble, quick and satisfying with enough heft and oomph to win over some of the more ardent DD lovers out there (cough cough @gLer cough cough). The comments about something funny in the upper mids-- be it glare or metallic timbre-- are valid. It could be a library or source thing. I have definitely heard a little something here and there though it crops up for me very infrequently. People who are fixated on a really analogue timbre might not be best suited to the Supermoon. It's very high res sound and I while I understand the comment about them having a "digital" flavor to the timbre the sound is quite natural sounding to my ears. The resolution and coherence of the Supermoon is off the charts good. I never fully understood what was meant by either term until I heard this IEM. It was a transformative experience for me in this hobby.