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Originally Posted by SillyHoney /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Peter, I'm a neutral guy in "cable theory". From time to time people go against each other in this forum for whether or not cables make difference.
Can you do me, and for many other people here I believe, a favor? That can you do some blind A/B test? It's not I don't buy your claim but I believe blind test will eliminate the placebo effect.
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Thank you for your comment. We need to be careful about going anywhere near the subject of "blind testing" because, from what I've come to understand, there are still great differences of opinion regardless of whether or not a blindfold is used. AND, my understanding is that "discussions" about "blind testing" are prohibited in these forums.
I am involved in listening professionally. What I'd like you to know, SillyHoney, is that when I discovered the difference in sound with the extension cable attached, I really didn't know what to expect exactly. As I wrote in my prior post, I have always had a tendency to purchase what is supposed to be high quality equipment. Given this, it is logical for me to believe (Would "assume" be a better word choice?) that this headphone cable was probably a high quality / relatively expensive one (allowing for the fact that, at that time, I knew nothing of "custom built" headphone cables). The thickness of this extension cable is about 1.5 times the thickness of the stock Pro 750 cable. The idea of different relatively similar headphone cable affecting the sound of headphones is a new one to me. I never thought about this concept before becoming a Head-Fi member. I certainly found years ago that different grades of speaker wire affect the sound coming from speakers but, well, I just never thought about that idea for headphones.
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Originally Posted by Necrolic /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Not necessary, I don't think there's many people here that will disagree a crappy quality cable will distort sound. What comes into question is that after a certain point can things really be improved upon?
That $5 extension cable likely was poorly built, and therefore has trouble properly transmitting a signal. However, a let's say $20 extension cable is probably at least properly put together, and therefore fully transmits the signal sans-distortion.
The question is, after you pay enough to get a cable that will transmit a signal without distortion, do cables really make a difference?
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Thank you for your comment. As I wrote previously, I don't believe this was a "crappy" extension cable. If it was, I doubt I would have started this thread. That's an interesting thought: Look for different grades of extension cables, test the highest grade currently manufactured and see if that affects sound as much as this one does.
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Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'd take a test on a copper vs silver HD-800 cable in my rig any day. The copper cable has been disassembled though so I can't readily test it. Someone in PM described similar characteristics to it to me from the DHC copper cables though, so it would be easy to test. The difference in the treble is quite clear to me.
It might be worth adding here that I'm fiddling around with cables after having already fairly settled on my main rig. The cabling is really the finishing touches. With a non-portable rig I'd still recommend buying better components before buying cables of any kind but as you start heading towards four figures it's worth considering for sure. One except I had though was my TF10s. I thought that instruments sounded very harsh, and blamed my iPod. However, after plugging the iPod into my main rig, and finding no harshness, it turned out the TF10 cable was responsible. Replacing it with a Null Audio one fixed that. I wont be buying UEs again, however.
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One of the cable makers did a video where he discussed briefly the different sound qualities of copper vs. silver. What I understood him to say was the silver gives more detail and copper gives warmth. I think you are absolutely right about having better components in the audio chain being a priority over the headphone cable. Actually, if anything, a better headphone cable might reveal a bad sounding component more than a stock cable.
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Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If there is distortion, you can use a DMM, oscilloscope, spectrum analyzer, or other equipment to measure output directly from the amp and also from the cable. With some of the more sophisticated equipment, you can overlay the results and see where they diverge.
If no meaningful difference is found, then you have to assume that there is a force beyond resistance, capacitance and inductance that affects the cable. Further, this mysterious force has effects that do not affect resistance, capacitance or inductance. Moreover, the implication would be that virtually piece of electronic equipment, audio or not, is compromised somehow by its wire composition. Not only that, but no one has ever been able to substantiate these mysterious forces with something like a light bulb or an electric motor. After all, how does electricity know whether it is in an audio cable or in the winding of an AC motor? It doesn't. So the wire in an AC motor should show signs of cable effects just the same as a RCA interconnect.
In other words, something that would fundamentally overturn physics as currently understood.
It is possible, however very unlikely. Given that electricity is involved in a great deal of scientific pursuit, it is remarkable that these differences never turn up anywhere besides audio cables. Even more remarkable that this view of cables is pushed heavily by people who make money from selling them.
I hold a dim view of sighted listening tests. Being able to see the cable introduces a raft of human biases and expectations.
Besides, if you hear the difference, why do you need to see the cable?
If the difference is heard, then vision has nothing to do with it.
So you have to take vision out of the equation if you want to know if you're actually hearing something.
As far as I know, no one has ever identified a cable unsighted.
The reasonable conclusion is that cable differences are psychological.
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Thank you for your comment. Your views here are very similar to the views of someone I spoke with several months ago when I first became curious about whether or not different cables affect the sound of headphones. The person of whom I am writing is a tech involved in creating and replacing different types of cable for studios. He told me that he did not believe that different cables cause headphones to sound differently. Actually, what he told me was that it is impossible for two relatively similar cables to cause a difference in sound in headphones. And, he went on to say that any differences heard are totally in the imagination of the listener, further agreeing with your comments.
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Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm a recable agnostic... I don't know what to think but its cool to hear both sides however contradicting they may be. Anyway I also have a coiled extension cable I purchased a while ago which is mono... ...just checking.
I'd love to see a DBT on different cables, DACs and amps too... I bet most if not all would fail to identify a $200 amp from a $2,000 amp when blindfolded.
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The extension cable is a stereo one. Maybe, though, it
has "mono"
and that is why it doesn't sound so good.
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Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's just the problem. Physics isn't currently understood.
Peter, for what it's worth, I would personally recommend either APureSound's V3 cables, or Twisted Cables UPOCC "Vortex". I've reviewed the latter if you're curious, and have owned the former twice, in the form of a HD600 cable and an Edition 9 cable.
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I will definitely consider your recommendations, Cov.... Which of these do you think would render a more detailed sound? I think the APS guy is the one who made the video I wrote about in a previous post, if memory serves correctly.
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Originally Posted by Kernmac /img/forum/go_quote.gif
One of the questions regarding an Ultrasone Pro recable is-Do you replace the screw in cable with an aftermarket one, leaving the existing board and left right earcup cabling intact or do you replace the lot, having a hardwired recable?
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Thank you for your comment. I would want to do the "screw in" type but only because I can take it back out if I don't like it. And, because it wouldn't void the warranty on a new pair.
Edit: I somehow became distracted from commenting on a very important part of your post, Kernmac. And, that is your comment regarding either leaving or replacing the stock internal cabling. This is a very valid point regarding re-cabling the Ultrasone Pro series, generally because, seemingly, any external re-cabling would be "invalidated" by the internal cabling because "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link".
I am aware that Moon Audio manufactures a replacement cable for the Pro series. I would be curious to hear their explanation of how this cable could possibly make the Pro series sound better without replacing the internal cabling in the headphone.
I would welcome a response from Moon Audio or any other cable maker regarding this topic.
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Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I replaced a Sony extension cable (the smaller one) with one from ThatCable by Loops and the sound opened up with a greater soundstage and more depth. I was not looking for or expecting any change.
The total cost of both cables was less than £10. The only issue I have is that some cables are stupidly expensive. But if purchasers hear a difference, no matter the reason, then so be it.
So what if audiophiles are the only people to report sound and vision differences in cables? Who else uses cabling in such a manner to make a proper comparison?
Other areas where cables are used are also subject to preferences and performance issues. Electricians to electrical engineers have products that they recommend. MK is well regarded in domestic applications. But a socket is a socket, surely? A friend works for a company that makes its own cabling in house to ensure quality and it needs to be to a military spec. They would not dream of using any old cable. But cable is cable, surely?
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I agree that it seems as though some cables should be less costly. But then, I think just about everything should be less costly.
It needs to be taken into consideration, the man hours involved in custom building a cable as well as the materials involved.
The tech I spoke of in a prior post could have made a cable for me but he told me to not do it because he didn't want me to waste my money.