Cables, why all the fuss?

[NotJeffBuckley]

I predict this thread will be locked. It seems any thread which isn't discussing positive merits of cables is locked. The forum is listed as DBT free, but everything I've seen (and most threads I've participated in on the subject) indicates that it is in fact science free unless the science supports improvement of sound (that is, change in resistance/inductance resulting from different cable gauges/lengths). I don't doubt that interconnects make a difference, but I do doubt that the difference arises from anything that isn't completely and thoroughly explainable by the aforementioned characteristics, and thus that a similar length and similar gauge of radioshack wire will sound any different from any cable made.

One valid reason to buy/make cables, of course, is to ensure a higher quality construction than you'd typically get with inexpensive cables, or to get better shielding (which can have very measurable improvements).

 

[warnsey]

This is the first and last time i will ever say something in one of these threads...

We all come to head-fi for one reason... MUSIC.. we all love it. Now some people love it on their ****** little stereos going through life not knowing any better (and perhaps they don't want to). Others will spend big $$$$$ on amps sources and finally cables etc. Now i say if someone buys a more expensive cable than the one they had previously and they put the same cd on they listen to all the time and they think it sounds better than previously is all that matters. Who cares if one is suffering from the "placebo" effect.

If it means they enjoy their music more than that's what it is all about. So stop these stupid arguements and technical stuff. If spending more money on cables makes you HAPPIER and you ENJOY the music more than that's great.

If you're someone who doesn't believe in it then all the better for you. You get to save your money.

The only way you can learn is through personal trial and error. If you believe it works than go for it. That is the whole point of a hobby.

p.s. that is the last i will say on that.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot some say the improvement is subtle enough to be difficult for them to discern. Others say it's like "night and day". They resist A/B testing, claiming that they get more accurate impressions from isolated long listening sessions. And they refuse to accept any objective testing,

Difficult to discern and I dump. I like A/B. I like objective testing.

I guess I also like it when former skeptics, as some were, in the pro audio world like Bernie Grundman, Joe Harley, John Curl, Doug Sax, James Guthrie, Rick Rubin, etc, etc, etc, have their eurekas and outfit their studios with expensive wire.

Science sometimes plays catch up with what people have discovered already; some medical treatments are examples (not including snake oil

). Science hasn't gotten around to explaining the why and how of audiophile cabling just yet but why should I wait for them to validate what seems pretty obvious to those of us who listen with open minds rather than just read numbers.

http://www.newscientist.com/article....mg18524911.600

Love that first one!

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth Difficult to discern and I dump. I like A/B. I like objective testing. I guess I also like it when former skeptics, as some were, in the pro audio world like Bernie Grundman, Joe Harley, John Curl, Doug Sax, James Guthrie, Rick Rubin, etc, etc, etc, have their eurekas and outfit their studios with expensive wire. Science sometimes plays catch up with what people have discovered already; some medical treatments are examples (not including snake oil ). Science hasn't gotten around to explaining the why and how of audiophile cabling just yet but why should I wait for them to validate what seems pretty obvious to those of us who listen with open minds rather than just read numbers. http://www.newscientist.com/article....mg18524911.600 Love that first one!

Misapplication of misunderstanding. Apples to oranges, except neither are fruit. Electrical transmission of audio frequencies are not mysteries, nor would they be of remotely the same magnitude if they were mysteries.

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley I predict this thread will be locked. It seems any thread which isn't discussing positive merits of cables is locked. The forum is listed as DBT free, but everything I've seen (and most threads I've participated in on the subject) indicates that it is in fact science free unless the science supports improvement of sound (that is, change in resistance/inductance resulting from different cable gauges/lengths).

How is this a scientific thread? It's quite apparent that the original poster already drew his conclusions.

Regardless of whether Headfi has an agenda against threads discussing the merits of cable or the non-existence thereof, which I personally doubt, but in this case it's tough to argue with premises such as "madness", "biggest joke", "junk", "waste of money", "bling", and others. Hardly scientific in my book.

What is the purpose of this thread? Trying to figure out why people using expensive cables are wasting their money on a big joke? The opening and 2nd post are basically ad hominem arguments against all future refutations.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley Misapplication of misunderstanding. Apples to oranges, except neither are fruit. Electrical transmission of audio frequencies are not mysteries, nor would they be of remotely the same magnitude if they were mysteries.

Misapplication of misunderstanding indeed (Misapplication of language actually). We're not dealing with magnitudes but principles; whether quasars or toenails, if it's not understood well...
Audio frequencies are not the mysteries, cables are for some.

Besides, I A/B, I blind test. Now you do your share, put your money where your mouth is, go buy a good cord and come back with the report. But then you've already made up your mind so there's no point. You're spending your time and effort freting about an issue that is of no importance to you. Now that makes sense!

 

[JaZZ]

The most important thing: cables are fun!

They are one of the last audio playgrounds where you can play even without in-depth knowledge of electronics and physics. Make yourself your own cables! I've spend a lot of time doing so. Of course it helps to have a basic understanding of electricity, but even that's not implicitly necessary to get astonishing results. It's almost like alchemy, just that it's more likely to get positive results: Cables do alter the sound, even though it's not clear how this happens. And it's not just fun to wonder about this fact, it's also useful for fine-tuning your system. Supposed you're sensitive to the specific kind of sonic subleties. I've been a cable skeptic myself, but now I'm a die-hard convert.

I doubt that the main motif for the occupation with cables is to impress friends or to have something fancy to look at, as the thread starter suggested.
.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth Misapplication of misunderstanding indeed (Misapplication of language actually). We're not dealing with magnitudes but principles; whether quasars or toenails, if it's not understood well... Audio frequencies are not the mysteries, cables are for some. Besides, I A/B, I blind test. Now you do your share, put your money where your mouth is, go buy a good cord and come back with the report. But then you've already made up your mind so there's no point. You're spending your time and effort freting about an issue that is of no importance to you. Now that makes sense!

Misapplication of language? Please. It's a matter of the importance placed on areas of exploration, specifically of the magnitude of import each receives. You linked to "mysteries of the universe" and we're discussing "non-mysteries of the audio enthusiast."

"for some," indeed. Enjoy your hobby, that's all it comes down to. I enjoy mine just fine without spending exorbitant amounts of money on cables; if that's what it takes for you to listen to music, do it. Just don't tell me I'm missing out unless I buy, buy, buy, too.

 

[Ihmemies]

Well, in fact I _do_ have a different cable in my HD650's, I lost the original cable so I had to buy the Oelbach cable (it was cheap anyways). This isn't as flimsy as the original one, and has some kind of noise reducer before Y split. Maybe I should buy a stock cable someday and compare, who knows, I might even end up buying some Equinox cables...

Maybe one of the reasons why I don't care about cables is the crap music I listen to. Metal music's production and mastering usually sucks so much that you don't even want to hear all the clipping and distortion

I've tried to find decent sounding albums, and I think Tristania's Widow's Weeds is one. Other than that I haven't had that much luck. Maybe I should some day bite the bullet and try to listen to Diana Krall. With proper sounding music I might even hear some differences between cables. Problem is, that it's a bit hard to buy "good" cables when you have got €400 cdp, €400 amp and €300 headphones. I can't get cables from any "respectable" company with €40.

 

[shuurajou]

CRESCENDOPOWER is there really any need to take such an aggresive stance to the creator of this thread? It's not like cables are your children or anything.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley You linked to "mysteries of the universe" and we're discussing "non-mysteries of the audio enthusiast."

No I linked to science the not yet all knowing of all things magnificent and mundane.


Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley Just don't tell me I'm missing out unless I buy, buy, buy, too.

And don't tell me I'm wasting my money when I can hear hear hear and you didn't try try try.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth No I linked to science the not yet all knowing of all things magnificent and mundane. And don't tell me I'm wasting my money when I can hear hear hear and you didn't try try try.

As to the first point, and I use the word point loosely, may I ask how not understanding the existance of a particle relates to audio cables? Are you suggesting that expensive cables (and only expensive cables) generate some kind of unknown particle that enhances audio playback, but doesn't alter the signal going through measurably?

The second, well, you do have a point there, I suppose, but that won't stop me from harboring severe reservations about your frugality

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley Are you suggesting that expensive cables (and only expensive cables) generate some kind of unknown particle that enhances audio playback, but doesn't alter the signal going through measurably?

No I'm suggesting that phenomenon that is often cited by many reputable minds does bear fruit when science gets around to investigating properly. My take on cables is that they are all flawed and imperfect, they all degrade the signal. Better ones degrade to a lesser extent.

At some point here I'll have to get back to my magic cable connected music.

 

[Solude]

Cables are the final piece of a system and can frankly make or break it. That includes power, interconnect and headphone cables. Its also generally not absolute either. The goal is synergy, all cables are imperfect, the key is to match their weaknesses and strengths to your system and goals.

To throw wood on the fire, its my experience that cable critics have either never experimented with cables in their system or have on systems that aren't really at a level to easily make out the differences. Others simply have no real methodology to their testing and rely on audio memory, which is a no no in component comparison.

 

[Todd R]

I can't wait until Edwood's cable test is done.
Maybe we can quit arguing about this once and for all.