Cables, why all the fuss?

[elmoe]

Who cares if you dont want to believe cables make a difference?

I have cables that cost up to 1000USD 5BMC Pinnacle Gold interconnects) and they made a huge difference IMHO in my rig. Wether you want to believe it is "bling" or truth matters little to me.

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jashugan Who cares if you dont want to believe cables make a difference? I have cables that cost up to 1000USD 5BMC Pinnacle Gold interconnects) and they made a huge difference IMHO in my rig. Wether you want to believe it is "bling" or truth matters little to me.

Seriously. I don't care if you believe or don't believe in cables. I mean for Christ's sake, there isn't even a general consensus on larger items like headphones, headamps and such. Heh, and no I don't think that the cable test will put anything to rest.

 

[MikeW]

I recomend to anyone, just test it yourself and listen. Openminded or not, once you hear the differnce it's undisputable. I also beleive that science has not properly investigated this issue, and if it was so done, it would confirm what we are all hearing

 

[TMHBAT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warnsey The only way you can learn is through personal trial and error.

Just imagine if that were true. We'd still be in the stone age at best.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRESCENDOPOWER That’s because anyone who has actually took the time to swap cables in, and out of various systems knows that the components used, or system used is the deciding factor on how responsive the cable change will be.

Then, how do you know that the change is a result of the cable, and not the system?

See ya
Steve

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda What is the purpose of this thread?

The purpose is to advance the "agenda" and provide a mechanism for the usual folks to make fun of those who believe they have heard cable differences. Such folks just wait in the wings waiting for any thread that will allow them to jump in and post their usual stuff, blah, blah, blah. (There are some fairly obvious psychological issues that no doubt explain the need for certain people to act in this way, but that's another issue.) In any event, why allow them to bait those intelligent, mature folks who enjoy this hobby, use their brains and faculties to make their own evaluation of the issue at hand, and like to share their actual experiences with others? Just ignore them and eventually they will have nobody to talk to but themselves. Then maybe they'll get bored and go away, and the rest of us can enjoy the forum and sharing what we've tried and learned.

Of course, the other alternative is to have a sub-forum where the cackling geese can go off by themselves so they won't bother the rest of us, but that makes too much sense I guess. So I guess we're stuck with these types, for a while anyway. But why encourage them? I call on all those who are sick of this krap to boycott these types of threads.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda Regardless of whether Headfi has an agenda against threads discussing the merits of cable or the non-existence thereof, which I personally doubt, but in this case it's tough to argue with premises such as "madness", "biggest joke", "junk", "waste of money", "bling", and others. Hardly scientific in my book.

You can't insult an inanimate object. I can call my car a lemon or say that air conditioner wouldn't blow cold air on an eskimo and no one gets mad. The problem is, cable fans take negative comments about cables as personal insults on themselves. They seem to think placebo effect is a personal failing, not a normal human trait. Then they reply with personal insults and the thread gets closed.

Discussion of DBT isn't the problem... it's the inevitable reaction to it. This forum really should ban personal insults, not discussion of verifiable scientific testing.

See ya
Steve

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS Of course, the other alternative is to have a sub-forum where the cackling geese can go off by themselves so they won't bother the rest of us, but that makes too much sense I guess.

Wow! Thirty seconds after I hit send on that last post, a perfect example of what I was talking about was posted.

See ya
Steve

 

[elrod-tom]

There is a good reason that we don't have discussions of DBT and such: it's NOT because anyone who makes such decisions has any kind of agenda...it's because such discussions tend to turn into circular arguments between enemy camps of true believers.

Let's all just knock it off...thanks.

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot You can't insult an inanimate object. I can call my car a lemon or say that air conditioner wouldn't blow cold air on an eskimo and no one gets mad. The problem is, cable fans take negative comments about cables as personal insults on themselves. They seem to think placebo effect is a personal failing, not a normal human trait. Then they reply with personal insults and the thread gets closed.

I think there's a fine line between criticizing the inaminate object, the cable, and its owner's state of mind in a somewhat rustic fashion as presented in the first and especially second post of the original poster. If driven to a certain extent and wrapped in the proper context, an insult to an inanimate object can (in a more or less obvious fashion) imply criticism on how the owner made his decision, and whatever abstruse reason made him acquire such an abominable object as a lemon car.

There's hardly anything wrong with a thread aiming at a civilized discussion on the foundations and reasons leading to one's rationale, such as those underlying one's belief in the benefits of cables, but certainly such a thread should not start off with attacks to the issue which it professes to discuss.

In such a case, I think it's very legimitate to question the true purpose of such a thread, which certainly does not aim at a civilized discussion on the merit of cables.

 

[elmoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot The problem is, cable fans take negative comments about cables as personal insults on themselves. They seem to think placebo effect is a personal failing, not a normal human trait.

If such assumption was right then why would I have posted in such a way earlier on in this thread?

I'm not the only one to have such response either, so if some of us are able to have such response, does that not prove, according to your theory about cable fans lying to themselves and them getting angry proving it, that cables indeed do make a difference?

...

I'd also like to point out that pretty much 80% of the posts made by people doubtful about wether expensive cables make a big difference over cheaper ones are also made by people who've never thoroughly heard expensive cables. They're just doubtful because the idea they have of how cables work and what they can bring to the sound is contradictory to the ones that serious cable reviewers such as saint.panda or markl have.

All of this certainly makes "cable fans", as you call them, much less doubtful than "non-believers" to me.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

It's not an issue of whether or not cables make a difference, gentlemen, it's the matter of whether a cable of gauge X and length Y is perceived as sounding different from a cable of gauge X and length Y costing four times as much. If the inductance, resistance, capacitance, etc. are the same, it is not empirically valid to claim a difference. If there is a change, it would inevitably be measurable - the human ear isn't a very sensitive instrument, unfortunately, and has long been behind the capabilities of even inexpensive acoustic measurement equipment. I imagine any differences perceived by a listener as vast would easily be measurable as it would indicate significant sonic difference, would it not?

If it is a difference, is it an objective one? That is, is it a difference anyone can hear, not just the owner of the equipment? If so, why can't it be measured and recorded? What, makers especially, do you propose defeats measurements but not the ear? Sonics aren't unknown nor unknowable, but the level of mysticism with which an acoustic wave is treated bothers me to posting.

 

[markl]

Why don't we lobby the mods to just have a permanent sticky thread on the Great Cable Debate, so it won't keep popping up every week? Then newbs can just be referred to it and we all need never be dragged into any more debates on the matter, we'll have a permanent repository for all our various rants/arguments/rebuttals/witty rejoinders etc.

As for me, I'm tired of typing the same old arguments over and over, I'm sure you are too.

That way, we can say our piece, and be done with it once for all; we can just say: "I refer the poster to the response I made some time earlier" as they do in the UK Parliament.

What do you say?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley ...the human ear isn't a very sensitive instrument...

Huh?!

I'd say some are, and some are not.

Sensitivity may also have to do with resistance (...and capacitance in some cases) downstream.
.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Huh?! I'd say some are, and some are not. Sensitivity may also have to do with resistance (...and capacitance in some cases) downstream. .

The whole point of measurement is to remove the variable of the human ear with all its discrepencies. That, of course, rubs you and others the wrong way, and I haven't quite figured out why, but I'm sure it's a good reason or there wouldn't be a

emote in the first place

The ear changes drastically over the course of a day, let alone between weeks. The changes that people notice with cables, which I can cite from this thread, are noticed (paraphrasing) not in blind tests due to subtleness but over the course of weeks. How can you expect an instrument that changes hourly to accurately report to you changes over the course of a week?