PhilS, that was a particularly well written and articulate post. It really is that simple - and a real shame that sceptics keep exaggerating and overstating the "problem".
Cable Truths and Myths.
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oatmeal769
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I think I need to get into the cable making business.
Steve Eddy
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Not if you're looking to make a lot of money.
se
| Originally Posted by oatmeal769 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I need to get into the cable making business. |
Not if you're looking to make a lot of money.
se
El_Doug
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And in these cases, where people are indeed testing out upgrades to their own high-class, nearly completed systems, this is a fine path to take. In fact, this probably is the case 90% of the time.
However, there was recently a "rate my system" thread in which a guy had a $250 DAC, but a $1000+ USB cable for it. These people really need to be helped, regardless of whether or not the tweak causes an audible difference. Every single cable "believer" (except for Patrick, of course
) should hopefully agree that this guy's purchase was a poor choice
| Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think this is a scenario where most people consider upgrading cables only after they have constructed the basic components of their system. |
And in these cases, where people are indeed testing out upgrades to their own high-class, nearly completed systems, this is a fine path to take. In fact, this probably is the case 90% of the time.
However, there was recently a "rate my system" thread in which a guy had a $250 DAC, but a $1000+ USB cable for it. These people really need to be helped, regardless of whether or not the tweak causes an audible difference. Every single cable "believer" (except for Patrick, of course
El_Doug
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Quote:
website template: $25
website registration: $10
webspace: $15
digital camera: $50
furutech xlr's: $220
techflex: $10
heatshrink: $3
rubber hose: $10
mogami cable: $15
solder: $3
soldering iron: $7
total cost for cables, website with checkout cart, and picture of your high-end cable: $368
so long as you can sell the pair for $500, you can legally pay your sales tax, and still turn a profit from starting up a cable company, by selling a single pair of interconnects!
| Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not if you're looking to make a lot of money.
|
website template: $25
website registration: $10
webspace: $15
digital camera: $50
furutech xlr's: $220
techflex: $10
heatshrink: $3
rubber hose: $10
mogami cable: $15
solder: $3
soldering iron: $7
total cost for cables, website with checkout cart, and picture of your high-end cable: $368
so long as you can sell the pair for $500, you can legally pay your sales tax, and still turn a profit from starting up a cable company, by selling a single pair of interconnects!
PhilS
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What about the labor cost?
| Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif website template: $25 website registration: $10 webspace: $15 digital camera: $50 furutech xlr's: $220 techflex: $10 heatshrink: $3 rubber hose: $10 mogami cable: $15 solder: $3 soldering iron: $7 total cost for cables, website with checkout cart, and picture of your high-end cable: $368 so long as you can sell the pair for $500, you can legally pay your sales tax, and still turn a profit from starting up a cable company, by selling a single pair of interconnects! |
What about the labor cost?
PhilS
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Thanks. That makes a total of two -- assuming I can count my wife.
| Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif PhilS I am one of your fans! |
Thanks. That makes a total of two -- assuming I can count my wife.
BIG POPPA
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Count my wife and Little Poppa that makes 4! No worries!
oatmeal769
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Hmmmm... HMMMM.....
Man, I already have half that stuff. What we need now is a marketing scheme. With words like 'transcendental phase alignment' and 'load sensitive induction windings.' Oh, and slick packaging, like a wooden box with a felt liquor pouch...
I'm telling you guys, we could make a mint!
| Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif website template: $25 website registration: $10 webspace: $15 digital camera: $50 furutech xlr's: $220 techflex: $10 heatshrink: $3 rubber hose: $10 mogami cable: $15 solder: $3 soldering iron: $7 total cost for cables, website with checkout cart, and picture of your high-end cable: $368 so long as you can sell the pair for $500, you can legally pay your sales tax, and still turn a profit from starting up a cable company, by selling a single pair of interconnects! |
Hmmmm... HMMMM.....
Man, I already have half that stuff. What we need now is a marketing scheme. With words like 'transcendental phase alignment' and 'load sensitive induction windings.' Oh, and slick packaging, like a wooden box with a felt liquor pouch...
I'm telling you guys, we could make a mint!
PhilS
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Implicit in your post and in El_Doug's above is that the barriers to entry for the cable market are almost non-existent, which would suggest that the market is likely to be very competitive, if not "atomistic," as they used to say in Economics 101. This, in turn, suggests that one is not likely to make exorbitant, or even "above market," profits for any meaningful length of time.
I would also note that folks on this forum quite often suggest that one can make big money by buying the parts, making some cables, and selling them for big money. Yet nobody ever really seems to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. I suppose most of the comments are tongue in cheek, as my comment was in another thread wherein I offered to be the financier behind someone who suggested there were huge profits to be made.
All in good fun.
| Originally Posted by oatmeal769 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmmmm... HMMMM..... Man, I already have half that stuff. What we need now is a marketing scheme. With words like 'transcendental phase alignment' and 'load sensitive induction windings.' Oh, and slick packaging, like a wooden box with a felt liquor pouch... I'm telling you guys, we could make a mint! |
Implicit in your post and in El_Doug's above is that the barriers to entry for the cable market are almost non-existent, which would suggest that the market is likely to be very competitive, if not "atomistic," as they used to say in Economics 101. This, in turn, suggests that one is not likely to make exorbitant, or even "above market," profits for any meaningful length of time.
I would also note that folks on this forum quite often suggest that one can make big money by buying the parts, making some cables, and selling them for big money. Yet nobody ever really seems to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. I suppose most of the comments are tongue in cheek, as my comment was in another thread wherein I offered to be the financier behind someone who suggested there were huge profits to be made.
All in good fun.
Seamaster
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Same happend to my HDTV. I was playing round so I replaced with stock TV cable Cardas Golden Reference Power cable. The most noticeble difference is the color, more vivied, deeper. Well, use cardas is wast of money for half the TV price. So I ordered botton of line PS audio cable, which have 2 shields, removeble ground pin (a must for PS3 in my house),and well made for $40/m + shipping. It worked from day one without run-in. It did same job as Cardas. Please take note: I am NOT talking about sound quality here. same cable for my PS3 and DVD player, all worked, better picture, $45 x3 pair well spent.
| Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif If a cable is just a cable why replace the cheap crap you get with your dvd player.. Why not just get the cheapest cable from radio shack. They all work the same. Cables are not all equal. I bought 6.00 PS3 component cables then I got the rainbow effect on my screen. I would get green, red, then blue... So, I bought the official Sony PS3 component cables for 20.00. Guess what. Beautiful picture. No rainbow crap, so please don't tell me all cables are the same. Sorry. Quality matters. I do love my 13.00 Belkin RCA though.. But might get the OXY fuel or side winders for 60% off. I enjoy my BOK/Mother MK PC. Would never pay retail for them, but feel they improve my system. Hell, I even prefer my cheaper Belkins to my 80.00 Cardas silver RCA, which shocked me. I guess Plecebo is hit or miss. I'm a cable believer to a point. I'm more of the, they will influence the sound then better the sound. |
Same happend to my HDTV. I was playing round so I replaced with stock TV cable Cardas Golden Reference Power cable. The most noticeble difference is the color, more vivied, deeper. Well, use cardas is wast of money for half the TV price. So I ordered botton of line PS audio cable, which have 2 shields, removeble ground pin (a must for PS3 in my house),and well made for $40/m + shipping. It worked from day one without run-in. It did same job as Cardas. Please take note: I am NOT talking about sound quality here. same cable for my PS3 and DVD player, all worked, better picture, $45 x3 pair well spent.
Seamaster
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Cables are system dependent. Not more expensive cables are sound better. But you do need high end system to tell the difference, as they are more sensitive. In my system I just bought VH Audio flaver 4 cable used for $125 to replace Cardas GF. They sound better than Cardas. Fuller sound, more bass, richer mid, while the high are the same. Clear this $125 beat $500 Cardas in this case. Just forget Scientific Method, let your ears tell the truth!
| Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif website template: $25 website registration: $10 webspace: $15 digital camera: $50 furutech xlr's: $220 techflex: $10 heatshrink: $3 rubber hose: $10 mogami cable: $15 solder: $3 soldering iron: $7 total cost for cables, website with checkout cart, and picture of your high-end cable: $368 so long as you can sell the pair for $500, you can legally pay your sales tax, and still turn a profit from starting up a cable company, by selling a single pair of interconnects! |
Cables are system dependent. Not more expensive cables are sound better. But you do need high end system to tell the difference, as they are more sensitive. In my system I just bought VH Audio flaver 4 cable used for $125 to replace Cardas GF. They sound better than Cardas. Fuller sound, more bass, richer mid, while the high are the same. Clear this $125 beat $500 Cardas in this case. Just forget Scientific Method, let your ears tell the truth!
oatmeal769
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I like to think I have a fairly decent 'high end system.' Quote:
If ever I implied that there were NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER, then I mis-spoke. There are easily detectable differences by using electronic and / or software analysis. Please don't mis-understand, I know there are BIG differences between all sorts of cable.
My contention though is that NO ONE ever has or can identify a difference by listening alone. No one. Anywhere. Ever. Maybe there's a giant conspiracy of audiophiles who can hear the difference, but purposely answer incorrectly, but I doubt it. If you think you can, please show me. I WANT TO BELIEVE.
Quote:
There are differences that anyone can PLAINLY see without a 'test' in video cable, because with video, there is MUCH more information in the signal stream, and humans are capable of resolving far FAR greater detail and clarity than with audio.
Oh, and my tongue was planted firmly in cheek at my suggestion of opening a cable manufacturing venture... All someone would have to do is resurrect this thread, and I'd be finished before cable one!
| Originally Posted by Seamaster /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... you do need high end system to tell the difference, as they are more sensitive. |
I like to think I have a fairly decent 'high end system.' Quote:
| Originally Posted by Seamaster /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my system I just bought VH Audio flaver 4 cable used for $125 to replace Cardas GF. They sound better than Cardas. Fuller sound, more bass, richer mid, while the high are the same. Clear this $125 beat $500 Cardas in this case. Just forget Scientific Method, let your ears tell the truth! |
If ever I implied that there were NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER, then I mis-spoke. There are easily detectable differences by using electronic and / or software analysis. Please don't mis-understand, I know there are BIG differences between all sorts of cable.
My contention though is that NO ONE ever has or can identify a difference by listening alone. No one. Anywhere. Ever. Maybe there's a giant conspiracy of audiophiles who can hear the difference, but purposely answer incorrectly, but I doubt it. If you think you can, please show me. I WANT TO BELIEVE.
Quote:
| Originally Posted by Seamaster /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...It worked from day one without run-in. It did same job as Cardas. Please take note: I am NOT talking about sound quality here. same cable for my PS3 and DVD player, all worked, better picture... |
There are differences that anyone can PLAINLY see without a 'test' in video cable, because with video, there is MUCH more information in the signal stream, and humans are capable of resolving far FAR greater detail and clarity than with audio.
Oh, and my tongue was planted firmly in cheek at my suggestion of opening a cable manufacturing venture... All someone would have to do is resurrect this thread, and I'd be finished before cable one!
oatmeal769
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An instance where an interconnect can and does make a difference would be between PASSIVE guitar pickups, and an amplifier. The string vibrates across the magnet, and creates a tiny electrical impulse in the coil, just like a mini-generator. The capacitance of the guitar cable works against this tiny generator and can indeed play an audible role at the other end. It is well documented and audible to many. I have a 'favorite' instrument cable that I think sounds a bit more 'sparkly' As long as passive pickups are used, I'll demonstrate it for anyone. Again though, I think it's a different animal.
I'd never say it's impossible for interconnects to sound different, I have nothing against others who want to drop a 'G' on eye candy (in spite of my earlier rant... Sorry) But I like the conversation, that's what forums are for.
I'd never say it's impossible for interconnects to sound different, I have nothing against others who want to drop a 'G' on eye candy (in spite of my earlier rant... Sorry) But I like the conversation, that's what forums are for.
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