[gaijin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg First off, a few years ago, far more Head-Fi members owned the Stax Omega II's, than those who had even heard the HE90's. It only stands to reason that the O2's were more popular at the time. As the membership grew in age & experience, those with the resources looked beyond the O2's and found ways to purchase the discontinued Orpheus system. Now you can go to a meet, and have four or five HE90's!!! Some members own more than one pair! That was but a pipedream only a few years ago. Secondly, I also think the HE90's scale up with better equipment, beyond even what the O2's are capable. Only a few years ago, a top source around here might have been a Meridian 588, or maybe a Cary 306/200. Now those honors include names like Meitner, etc. So as members understood & obtained progressively better sources, perhaps the HE90's progressed along with them. Third, the Orpheus ain't no sizzle! Notice I said "Orpheus", as in the system - amp AND headphones. I had heard the HE90's pitted against the O2's in the past. Always using a Gilmore e-stat amp (KGSS or Blue Hawaii). My usual opin was that both headphones were stellar, but the HE90 was a bit light in bass compared the top-of-the-line Stax offering. That is, until I finally heard the Orpheus system all together. I don't know if my tastes changed or matured, but now I find the O2's bass-bloated. If anything, the Stax is the "sizzle" (albeit a pretty nice steak too). The Orpheus system provides one of the most natural sound reproductions I've ever heard. Music simply flows, and you just experience it without listening to the gear. Wanting more bass or "sizzle" is not an issue. In no other HE90+e-stat amp combo did it do quite the same thing. Now we have new e-stat amps that challenge the venerable HEV90, and I'll leave that determination up to you for now. The interesting thing to me is that with all of the supposed subjectiveness of audio, including headphone-dom, there seem to be far fewer deviations in opinion of these top-of-the-line models, such as the HE90's, than with lower-end models. Why is this so? I can only assume that what these models are doing are, in fact, closer to what we all actually expect to hear in the best setups, which is to provide the most true-to-life, and natural sounding musical experience. But how can that be, if we are supposedly so different in taste & physique? If there really is a true (of at least, tru-er) sound signature that we actually do agree on, where does that leave all that "subjectivity" (quotes intentional)?

Well said.

I also believe the HE90s have a lot of potential, having heard them first through the Stax 007t amp, and then through the HEV90, and upgraded my source and cable along the way - they keep asking for more.

I am looking forward to some more reviews on the HE90/ES1 combo. So far we only have one.

 

[rhythmdevils]

someone asked when dynamics will get as good as electorstats.

i think they already are, i just think they need reallly good amps. and they will always give you a different sort of sound. i think what dynamics need to improve on is being less fussy and power hungry. but they are definitely capable of just as much, imho.

when i listened to the hd650 on the sds-xlr, balanced, i was totally blown away. if i could have any system in the world, i think i might choose that over the orpheus, as far as sound goes. but then, as someone else mentioned, i might choose the he90 even though i liked the 650/sds-xlr combo better just because the he90 is so rare and special.

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman As I've said before, nearly all of the 'Orpheus Sound' is in the headphones, not in the amp.

Yes, and the legend says it will even produce beautiful music plugged into thin air. Orpheus owners get rid of your source and amp now!

 

[dannyandelyse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozebuttons The omega lls are a tougher load then the He90s & require higher volume settings, I didn't listen to the system during the meet ,I never do only check to make sure everything is up & running. As far as hotness on female vocals that is the opposite I have found in my long term use of the HEv90,I find it one of its best strengths,I love the Female voice. Remember this is a meet impression,mine are long term not to deny what you heard. Mikhail also requested I not put the OIIs on the ES1 at the same time as the HE90 because he felt it compromised the HE90s perfomance on that amp,thats why they where plugged into the HEV90 the whole meet.

BINGO! The three full Orpheus combos that I have now heard have all been totally sublime and anyhing but hot, especially on vocals. It is not that this combo is the last word in resolution, detail, frequency balance nor extension. I would even say that the ES1 / HE90 might get out of the way a bit more (maybe)? But when the HEV90 is driving ONE HE90 within a proper setup the beauty and wholness of the experience, the organic rightness of its truth, for me, leaves all others in its wake. The Omegas are very, very fine phones but the Orpheus System is at this point, to my ears the Orpheus of headphone music enjoyment

 

[ken36]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaijin Have you listened to the Orpheus system ? You should.

BINGO! You are correct sir! I wish I could find a way.

I wanted very much to go to NY for the national meet and hear the HE90 myself. It would have been an expensive weekend, maybe 1K. However, it would have been a very valuable experience meeting some of the head-fiers and I would have saved a ton of money in the long run. My non-attendance is simply, because I won't travel by air anymore, because of the current indignities we have to endure. I made that decision after a past US VP was frisked etc. I believe this upgraded security is necessary, I just absent myself, because I won't tolerate it.

 

[ken36]

For what it's worth, I lifted this from a thread in the HEADWIZE forum:


"posted 12-02-2002 08:57 AM CST (US)

Best headphone system in the world?
I would say the Sennheiser Orpheus is not a candidate. I will first quote three reviews, then offer my own appraisal of it.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Stereophile: their review said that the Orpheus was a Class A product. However, they said it did not re-define the class, but that the Stax SR-Omega did. They felt that the SR-Omega was the reference by which all other headphones (and loudspeakers too, they added) are to be measured against. Stereophile reviewed the Orpheus in 1995 and the Omega in 1996.
Hi Fi News And Record Review: the reviewer compared the Orpheus to the Stax Lambda Signature in a direct comparison and found the Orpheus lacking the Lambda's ability to "create complex tonal hues and textures". The reviewer rated the Lambda Signature as still being the (then) best headphone around, and was rather scathing about the Orpheus. This review appeared in 1993, and was the most negative that I have read so far about the Orpheus.
Ultimate Audio: called the Stax Omega2 the best headphone system in the world, but a distinction to be shared with the Orpheus, they felt. However, the reviewer continued by saying that "the Stax, while not offering significantly better overall sound than the Orpheus, offer a touch more neutrality, perhaps as the result of the Stax’s impeccable tonal equilibrium" (italicised emphasis mine). Ultimate Audio also stated that "there simply isn't a loudspeaker on the market today that can outperform the sonic refinements of the Stax".
It perplexes me to read posts mentioning that "every review of the Orpheus has named it as the best headphone system in the world".
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
My own personal appraisal of it?
I have conducted a 3-hour audition of the Orpheus before, and I even brought my then Stax Lambda Signatures to cross-compare. The audio shop manager allowed me to have this lengthy time to review his expensive toy because he saw that I was a serious headphone connoisseur, with my Lambdas in hand. I brought the Lambda to his shop because I wanted to neutralise the unknown variable (the sonic signature of his source components).
To be truthful, I am critical of both headphones. Frequent HeadWize visitors know of my tumultous love-hate relationship with the Lambda Signatures. I loved its electrostatic delicacy but hated its forward lower-treble.
I am less critical of the Orpheus: I loved its electrostatic delicacy, and am disappointed with, but did not loathe, its bright upper-treble. It has an astonishing openness, a remarkable sense of airiness and space. The thing that made me suspicious of the Orpheus’s ultimate quality was the way how it consistently rendered all recordings with this sense of openness. Its strength therefore was its achille’s heel: it was tonally imbalanced, with a tilted upper-treble and a lightweight sound (lighter than the Lambda and Omegas).
Sennheiser charged a bomb for the Orpheus because they never had the electrostatic know-how in the past, prior to the Orpheus. The high asking price of the Orpheus was to recover their R & D costs in having to ascend a steep learning curve in electrostatic technology.
I think it is strange to make the simple equation {more expensive = better}, and even more strange to say that {most expensive = best}."

 

[Cyrilix]

I'm not sure if this might be a factor, but I've heard that the Omega IIs take a while to reach their full potential, so maybe that could be a factor in the way things sounded? Some people have said they take up to two days... I mean, that's just absurd, but it's a possibility.

 

[Snake]

Wouldn't be unheard of, regarding the charge-up times on Omega 2's. Once you unplug a Stax there is a definite "charge time" you can hear - the time during which the sound changes as the headphone's capacitance stabilizes. If you are listening during the "charge" you might not hear it as your psychoacoustically grow accustomed to it as it happens, but if you listen for only 5 minutes then come back there is something quite identifiable going on.

On 404's the charge time makes them sound bright and thin, with a lacking of detail in the midrange and a definite inability to handle dramatically dynamic passages. With O2's, therefore, in order to explain the sound we all heard at the show it would have to be the (almost) exact opposite – dark, closed yet "lush" - but anything is possible.

I for one, IMHO, am simply going with the theory that their amp synergy was off at the show - that is, sharing the HEV90 made them as unhappy as the HE90's were (just in a different direction) and the other amp was not the "best" choice, needed a more open top end to bring the O2's to life. The O2's on the HEV90 certainly weren't "bad"...but they seemed a bit "off" too.

 

[dannyandelyse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Wouldn't be unheard of, regarding the charge-up times on Omega 2's. Once you unplug a Stax there is a definite "charge time" you can hear - the time during which the sound changes as the headphone's capacitance stabilizes. If you are listening during the "charge" you might not hear it as your psychoacoustically grow accustomed to it as it happens, but if you listen for only 5 minutes then come back there is something quite identifiable going on. On 404's the charge time makes them sound bright and thin, with a lacking of detail in the midrange and a definite inability to handle dramatically dynamic passages. With O2's, therefore, in order to explain the sound we all heard at the show it would have to be the (almost) exact opposite – dark, closed yet "lush" - but anything is possible. I for one, IMHO, am simply going with the theory that their amp synergy was off at the show - that is, sharing the HEV90 made them as unhappy as the HE90's were (just in a different direction) and the other amp was not the "best" choice, needed a more open top end to bring the O2's to life. The O2's on the HEV90 certainly weren't "bad"...but they seemed a bit "off" too.

Snake, would we run TWO speaker set ups at the same time off of one amp? I have listened to Lamdas, The Orpheus, Omega11 ...all new, all thru a NOS HEV90, a blackgatted KGSS, regular KGSS and Stax SRM1 mark2. Each amp, each headphone displayed its own basic soul within the mix. But each had a special synergy that raised the level of the whole. Orpheus with matching HEV90 amp. Omega with Blackgatted KGSS and Lamdas with plain KGSS.
The jouney is a lot of fun.
Dan

 

[Snake]

I agree - I would have loved the HEV90 on the HE90's exclusively, then the ES-1 with a choice of HE90 or O2 but only one at a time, say in 1/2 hour shifts. But it was incredible gracious of Bozebuttons to appear with his fantastic gear to begin with, and allow us the luxury of both his, and his gear's, presence so things turned out as they turned out.

So a huge Thank You to Boze for his incredible efforts!

Thank you!

 

[dannyandelyse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake I agree - I would have loved the HEV90 on the HE90's exclusively, then the ES-1 with a choice of HE90 or O2 but only one at a time, say in 1/2 hour shifts. But it was incredible gracious of Bozebuttons to appear with his fantastic gear to begin with, and allow us the luxury of both his, and his gear's, presence so things turned out as they turned out. So a huge Thank You to Boze for his incredible efforts! Thank you!

I agree 100%. Hell, I bought one of his amps just for the provenance.

 

[dannyandelyse]

One other thought.
The HEV90 might or might not be optimized. The quality of tubes? The amount of wear and time on them? The last time biased? etc.

We know for sure that the ES1 was minty, fresh, perfect tubes, biased recently, full caps, etc

I think both those amps have the magic..............

 

[bozebuttons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake I agree - I would have loved the HEV90 on the HE90's exclusively, then the ES-1 with a choice of HE90 or O2 but only one at a time, say in 1/2 hour shifts. But it was incredible gracious of Bozebuttons to appear with his fantastic gear to begin with, and allow us the luxury of both his, and his gear's, presence so things turned out as they turned out. So a huge Thank You to Boze for his incredible efforts! Thank you!

Your Welcome,
You have to realize That meet conditions & trying to get as much gear together so everyone can get a taste of the gears sound sometimes compromises them in sound quality what they are really capable of.
All the amps on murders row where daisy chained to the EMMlabs gear at the same time.
The HEV90 was run off the RCA connectors of the DAC6e,The Es1 was connected to the XLR connectors of the Dac6e,the Cary 300sei was connected to the passthru connectors of the ES1,Splitters where on Cary interconnects which fed the Mcallister EA1 which also had splitters which fed the Egmont.
So 5 amps where being fed from the EMMLabs gear at the same time,besides the 3 HE90s,2 Omega IIs,the R10s,the koss esp950s all connected to the system at the same time,pretty crazy setup but it worked out well,My intention was that comparisons could be made using the same source.

 

[Snake]

It was really fun and, strangely, made me appreciate my own rig more when I arrived home at midnight to do my own listening. Marantz CDP / glass Tosh / Parasound DAC / Moon Black Dragons (thanks to picking them up at the meet!) / SRA-14S / SRE-15 / SR-404 made me realize, once I did the IC switchout and slapped the cans on my bean-ball head, has the advantage of sounding really quite "analog". Probably a bit of 'loss through attrition' versus 'loss through addition' but the results are, now thanks to you guys and Moon, back to being very "musical" (when I lost the ability to use the MIT's the "musicality" seemed to go with it).

So life is good. I've been listening more than I have in quite a while now that I see how lucky I am in having all that...c#$p

Overall your table sounded great, Boze.

Thanks for setting all that up!

Maybe one day I will tear apart my own system and bring it in for direct comparos, but taking it apart will be so ugly

(the (really big!) high power supply cables go down a central steel trunk while low level goes external) that, on second thought...nah, I don't think so

 

[J-Pak]

Does the HE90 require as much time to charge as the OII?