[Nomad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman As I've said before, nearly all of the 'Orpheus Sound' is in the headphones, not in the amp.

Agree. The HE90 was keeping a good part of their signature when we switched from HEV90 to KGSS DX (although there was an obvious change mostly because of Tubes/SS differences, the HE90 remained HE90. I'm sure the difference would be even less noticeable from HEV90 to 007t, being both tube amps, as Bangraman and Jatinder did in the past)

Besides, the HEV70 is far underrated over here. Give it some time running and enjoy. Not perfect but not crap either. I'm tired of hear from owners (myself included) that they are not bad at all if you give them some time while people with little exposure (if any) is bashing them all the time.

 

[Snake]

Just might by system synergy - or lack of same - keeping your R-10's back. At the show the R-10's were paired with a Cary and the combination was certainly quite listenable - but, with another amp, who knows?

I'll still hold the opinion that once you get to a certain level of performance - a certain level of quality product - the differences are like variations of the same recipe rather than a totally different entree. It's like no two lasagnas are alike - yet it's still the family lasagna (hmm, shades of Dr. Seuss in that one). It's not like comparing the lasagna to the pasta primavera.

Do you want your lasagna with more basil, or more cheese? Pork sausage or meatball?

 

[ken36]

So what I meant by sizzle is whatever is the popular opinion rules. That's what you sell.

When I was a kid there was a fairy tale: "The Emperor's New Clothes". That story seems apropos here, IMO.

I owned the L3000s for a while and I had convinced myself that they were the greatest ever. Lots of posts at the time. I even became a fanboy of AT Woodys and spent a few K collecting them. They are beautiful. I didn't like them. I kept wondering what was wrong with me. Finally after months of being unhappy with the sound, I sold them. Great cans, I guess, but not for me. I sheepishly admit now that I just got caught up in the hype.

 

[Nomad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Just might by system synergy - or lack of same - keeping your R-10's back. At the show the R-10's were paired with a Cary and the combination was certainly quite listenable - but, with another amp, who knows? I'll still hold the opinion that once you get to a certain level of performance - a certain level of quality product - the differences are like variations of the same recipe rather than a totally different entree. It's like no two lasagnas are alike - yet it's still the family lasagna (hmm, shades of Dr. Seuss in that one). It's not like comparing the lasagna to the pasta primavera. Do you want your lasagna with more basil, or more cheese? Pork sausage or meatball?

I heard good comments from the EMP-R10 and DHA3000-R10 before. I find the EMP more sinergetic but this might be me. I think I'm too used to bassy sound signatures perhaps and for some music they can be frustratingly laid-back. A mental burn-in period might be required.

Besides I got the EAR V20 a week ago and it seems like (unexpectedly) I found that the K1000 seems to be the one for me. The R10 couldn't come in a worst moment. And to be honest same would apply to the HE90 or Big O, and I'm quite familiar with it.(Again, IMHO, Today, to my tastes). The only thing I don't like much is that they are pretty unforgiving, the bass rolloff, and that they require quite loud volumes to achieve Tier 1 sound (that's concerning). But still... I don't even care. I've never been so "touched" by a can before.

Back to Topic, I agree with Snake and Ken. At this level of performance one would expect a bit more of variety for the sake of the diversity on tastes/preferences. I'm not talking about 50/50, but 98/2 is a little too much perhaps.

 

[Carl]

The Omega II is designed as a production headphone. It's design has to be profitable and sustainable. It should be compared to Sennheiser's production headphone, ie the HE60, and not the limited run, 'this is what we could do with our best efforts' HE90.

The HE60 and OII have highly distinct sound signatures, but there isn't a lot in it with respect to which is outright "better".

The HE90 should be compared to the equaly illusive and no-holds-barred SR-Omega, something that is almost never done in the headphone community outside of Japan.

 

[dannyandelyse]

Am not sure the HE90..HEV90 setup was at its best. This setup had TWO headphones plugged into the amp every time I heard them. I mentioned to Tom twice that the volume control was cranked way up beyond the normal range and he commented it might be a cranky knob? I did just plug a single Omega into the amp and it still had the volume knob way up? Also there was two different age HE90s and might sound different depending on their vintage and condition. Yes the ES1 sounded wonderful with HE90s, but so has the He90s with other HEV90s I have heard. Quality of tubes, power, all a factor. I doubt the HEV90 sounds its fabulous self powering multiple cans at once.

Dan

PS...the whole table sounded pretty damn good to me!

 

[Snake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyandelyse Am not sure the HE90..HEV90 setup was at its best. This setup had TWO headphones plugged into the amp every time I heard them. I mentioned to Tom twice that the volume control was cranked way up beyond the normal range and he commented it might be a cranky knob? I did just plug a single Omega into the amp and it still had the volume knob way up? Also there was two different age HE90s and might sound different depending on their vintage and condition. Yes the ES1 sounded wonderful with HE90s, but so has the He90s with other HEV90s I have heard. Quality of tubes, power, all a factor. I doubt the HEV90 sounds its fabulous self powering multiple cans at once.

I was having this same self-discussion with myself today. A decent number of people state that they have heard the HE90/HEV90 combo and did not notice, or the system did not suffer, the upper midrange hotness that it exhibited at the meet. Was is power, the fact that the HEV90 was driving two (rather difficult to drive) cans simultaneously, tube choice, IC synergy, EMI, phases of the moon, facing the wrong magnetic pole to appease the audio gods, unhappy that it didin't get to sun itself on the Lido deck...???

Wish I could tell you. But, IMHO, the HE90/HEV90 combo on display definitely suffered a upper midrange hotness that did not show itself as a negative with a good portion of the source music that was chosen - classical - but once a jazz female vocal was put on it jumped out at you and waved it's arms for sure. Quite unmistakable - and strange, considering Orpheus system general opinions to the contrary.

Humbly this is why my "reference" recordings are going on a good, solid 20 years old...and I don't intend on changing them, probably, any time within my lifetime. I use 5 recordings and if you give me just 20 seconds with them I can tell you what color socks the IC designer was wearing when he made the IC's, on which day, and whether his stomach was growling or not

IMHO never experiment with "reference", no matter what the Flavor of the Month recording is quoted as being hot this season. The table had some really good sounding classic neo-reference...but exactly what was correct, and what wasn't?

Couldn't tell squat. I changed out to Amanda...20 seconds later I turn to Hirsch, "This is wrong". And then changed to the O2's...and something still wasn't right. The HEV90 just wasn't "getting it's groove on" with either can, IMHO, that's for sure.

I would have loved to have heard the O2's with the ES-1, to see if it is simply a matter of "supply" - them being very demanding in the utmost in control and voltage swings which the HEV90 couldn't do while powering 2 cans at once.

IMHO the HE90 / ES-1 combo, for the high-end representation of the show and the table, stole the spotlight. The Cary / R-10 was certainly amongst the top, though. The HE90/HEV90 Orpheus system's midrange hotness, once you had the "right" source on, showed itself and put the system out of contention - it reminded me of a much lower-end system in that regard. But I know the fault is not with the HE90's thanks to the spectacular ES-1 showing they managed.

 

[bozebuttons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake I was having this same self-discussion with myself today. A decent number of people state that they have heard the HE90/HEV90 combo and did not notice, or the system did not suffer, the upper midrange hotness that it exhibited at the meet. Was is power, the fact that the HEV90 was driving two (rather difficult to drive) cans simultaneously, tube choice, IC synergy, EMI, phases of the moon, facing the wrong magnetic pole to appease the audio gods, unhappy that it didin't get to sun itself on the Lido deck...??? Wish I could tell you. But, IMHO, the HE90/HEV90 combo on display definitely suffered a upper midrange hotness that did not show itself as a negative with a good portion of the source music that was chosen - classical - but once a jazz female vocal was put on it jumped out at you and waved it's arms for sure. Quite unmistakable - and strange, considering Orpheus system general opinions to the contrary. Humbly this is why my "reference" recordings are going on a good, solid 20 years old...and I don't intend on changing them, probably, any time within my lifetime. I use 5 recordings and if you give me just 20 seconds with them I can tell you what color socks the IC designer was wearing when he made the IC's, on which day, and whether his stomach was growling or not IMHO never experiment with "reference", no matter what the Flavor of the Month recording is quoted as being hot this season. The table had some really good sounding classic neo-reference...but exactly what was correct, and what wasn't? Couldn't tell squat. I changed out to Amanda...20 seconds later I turn to Hirsch, "This is wrong". And then changed to the O2's...and something still wasn't right. The HEV90 just wasn't "getting it's groove on" with either can, IMHO, that's for sure. I would have loved to have heard the O2's with the ES-1, to see if it is simply a matter of "supply" - them being very demanding in the utmost in control and voltage swings which the HEV90 couldn't do while powering 2 cans at once. IMHO the HE90 / ES-1 combo, for the high-end representation of the show and the table, stole the spotlight. The Cary / R-10 was certainly amongst the top, though. The HE90/HEV90 Orpheus system's midrange hotness, once you had the "right" source on, showed itself and put the system out of contention - it reminded me of a much lower-end system in that regard. But I know the fault is not with the HE90's thanks to the spectacular ES-1 showing they managed.

The omega lls are a tougher load then the He90s & require higher volume settings, I didn't listen to the system during the meet ,I never do only check
to make sure everything is up & running.
As far as hotness on female vocals that is the opposite I have found in my long term use of the HEv90,I find it one of its best strengths,I love the Female voice.
Remember this is a meet impression,mine are long term not to deny what you heard.
Mikhail also requested I not put the OIIs on the ES1 at the same time as the HE90 because he felt it compromised the HE90s perfomance on that amp,thats why they where plugged into the HEV90 the whole meet.

 

[muckluck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis No offense, but you mixed company names with car model names like a headphone noob mixes up detail with brightness. And the Ferrari would most likely cost more than all the other things you listed.

Sorry to go off topic, but this confused me. Wasn't the whole point in Smeggy saying that to emphasize that the only reason people pick a certain product, is because it is expensive and hard to get. Like how the OII and Orpheus polls always end up with Orpheus as the winner, just becasue they have the reputation of being the most elite. OII's are still in mass production and cost much less then the Orpheus, and some say it sounds better. The only reason the HE90 gets all it's praise is because it has the prestige. Much like how a non-headfier would automatically think headphones that aren't Bose don't sound as good as Bose.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

I heard good comments from the EMP-R10 and DHA3000-R10 before. I find the EMP more sinergetic but this might be me. I think I'm too used to bassy sound signatures perhaps and for some music they can be frustratingly laid-back. A mental burn-in period might be required. Besides I got the EAR V20 a week ago and it seems like (unexpectedly) I found that the K1000 seems to be the one for me. The R10 couldn't come in a worst moment. And to be honest same would apply to the HE90 or Big O, and I'm quite familiar with it.(Again, IMHO, Today, to my tastes). The only thing I don't like much is that they are pretty unforgiving, the bass rolloff, and that they require quite loud volumes to achieve Tier 1 sound (that's concerning). But still... I don't even care. I've never been so "touched" by a can before.

The K1000 is the only peice of audio equipment that made me think - there is nothing else I want (with stock cable no less). That's a quality that higher engineering costs can't re-create.

The HE90 is a Senn, and they always top the poles because they are well known, promoted at headroom because they make amps specifically for them, etc. Stax, Grado, etc. can't compete in mind share, but that doesn't mean it's the sound ... maybe just marketing?

 

[Ferbose]

I have not heard HE90. Hopefully that will change soon because a head-fier I know just bought it.
In all honesty, even if Omega II sounds as good as HE90, HE90 will still dominate the poll because:
1. It is more expensive
2. It is more rare
3. It is discontinued, and therefore more exclusive

Just typical audiophile psychology, nothing new.
Unless Omega II beats HE90 by a clear margin, it will never come out as a poll winner.

 

[Ferbose]

Sorry double post.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose I have not heard HE90. Hopefully that will change soon because a head-fier I know just bought it. In all honesty, even if Omega II sounds as good as HE90, HE90 will still dominate the poll because: 1. It is more expensive 2. It is more rare 3. It is discontinued, and therefore more exclusive Just typical audiophile psychology, nothing new. Unless Omega II beats HE90 by a clear margin, it will never come out as a poll winner.

The SR-Omega is rare, expensive and discontinued too, though.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl The SR-Omega is rare, expensive and discontinued too, though.

But then again people naturally think Omega II is better than Omega.
Even though K1000 was just discontinued and far more expensive than K701, some folks still want to think that K701 ought to be better because technology has advanced in 15 years. K701 is a replacement for K501, not K1000, but some still want to think it replaces K1000 as AKG's reference cans.

 

[gaijin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken36 The poll question was: After the National meet, what is your indisputable King of ALL Headphones? HE90 wins overwhelmingly with 32.56% of the national meet vote. Wow, I am aghast. The Stax O2 got an embarrassing 2% of the votes. Bad show Stax, go lick your wounds. My recent discussion, with a long time member and very respected head-fier, indicated that 5 years ago, when this forum was in its infancy, electrostatic sentiment was the flip version of what it is today. At that time, according to my confidant, the Omega 2 would have won a similar poll handily by popular acclaim. When I started my second career in sales, I learned that the way to be successful is to "Sell the sizzle". What do you think that means? I know what I think, but I am very interested in finding out what you folks think. I guess the biggest hint would be the What hot?/What's not? column from some silly magazine I was reading in the MDs office. There must be a lot going on here. So, what's happened

Have you listened to the Orpheus system ? You should.