Burson V6 Vivid and V6 Classic Discrete Audio Opamps Discussion and Reviews
Jun 3, 2019 at 10:04 AM Post #346 of 537
You probably put it backwards, regarding the PIN1; have a look to some details here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...ssion-and-reviews.854912/page-7#post-13711554. I created this post for those that want to know what's inside and also to better identify PIN1 in case the outer shell dismantles.

However, the new 2019 stock is glued perfectly and will not cause the outer shell to open up anymore (well, I actually like it more "naked"...:) )

The "naked" thing is kind of cool.

I must have put it in incorrectly, but I was certain that I had tried everything. I will glue it back up today.

Shane D
 
Jun 4, 2019 at 9:53 AM Post #347 of 537
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Little follow up on the V6 Vivid's in the Fun still sounding great. Not sure about this burn in but could be getting better or might just be me thinking it is? As far as installing the op-amps I had no problems at all just have to be careful the pins are pretty delicate. And have to make sure you install them in the right way with notch on board lined up with notch on op-amp. Me being dumb couldn't get lid back on at first and Tim (Slim1970) told me I had to remove the extension from the bottom of the op-amp for it to fit under lid. Any way here are some pics I took would like to share with you all.
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Jun 4, 2019 at 10:22 AM Post #348 of 537
Little follow up on the V6 Vivid's in the Fun still sounding great. Not sure about this burn in but could be getting better or might just be me thinking it is? As far as installing the op-amps I had no problems at all just have to be careful the pins are pretty delicate. And have to make sure you install them in the right way with notch on board lined up with notch on op-amp. Me being dumb couldn't get lid back on at first and Tim (Slim1970) told me I had to remove the extension from the bottom of the op-amp for it to fit under lid. Any way here are some pics I took would like to share with you all.

I am just sitting here going back and forth with mine.

Shane D
 
Jun 4, 2019 at 8:49 PM Post #350 of 537
How do you like them so far Shane?

I am just testing them with my Grado's because that is a winning combination for me.

I don't want to make a snap decision, but I do prefer the Classics so far. To me the vocals (my favourite instrument) sound fuller, clearer, more forward with the Classic's. They seem to have more "sparkle".

I read one review about the Vivid's being more exact, more precise, maybe even more accurate. I don't doubt that. To be clear, I am NOT an audiophile. I don't like Audeze headphones, I hated the HD6XX's and I was bored to death by an iFi MICRO Icann SE amp.

I lOVE this amp, my Grado's, my Meze 99 Classics and even my Beyer's (VERY clear but not as fun as the Meze 99's).
The Loxjie P20 is growing on me with the new tubes.

Totally off topic:
I had a chance the other day to buy the Unicorn of amps: THX AAA 789. It would have been EXACTLY double the cost of my Fun-Classic amp. I had it ordered and then I backed out. There is no way on earth that amp could be twice as good as the Fun, in my opinion. For that kind of money I could get a very nice set of used headphones.

Having said all that I have to do more testing.:L3000:


Shane D
 
Jun 8, 2019 at 1:52 PM Post #351 of 537
You probably put it backwards, regarding the PIN1; have a look to some details here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...ssion-and-reviews.854912/page-7#post-13711554. I created this post for those that want to know what's inside and also to better identify PIN1 in case the outer shell dismantles.

However, the new 2019 stock is glued perfectly and will not cause the outer shell to open up anymore (well, I actually like it more "naked"...:) )
One plastic cover of mine was also getting off, so I use it now without the cover/shell.

Does it have any more purpose than just protect the internal PCB? I can´t imagine it will shield from EMI or EMF, as it´s made of plastic. If it gonna shield those, it must be made of some metal; for example copper or aluminium, preferrable it should also be connected to the equipments enclosure ground, and best is if it´s connected to the wall outlets earth. Some equipment also have 100 Ohm resistor and sometimes a small plastic cap between the signal ground and the enclosures ground, to filter out any EMI/EMF noise to reach the signal.

Burson sell a copper tape as an optional spare for V5, but as they had problem with overheating, they do not recommend it now, altough the V6 have some air ventilation on top of the shell. I tried similar, promoted to keep snails away (see attached picture below).

Sparkos SS360x does not have any shell from factory.
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Jun 9, 2019 at 7:39 AM Post #353 of 537
I'm pretty sure the outer shell it's just for components protection.
Yes, I believe that too!

I have just finished my LBC, based on Lehmann Black Cube Linear SE, but almost all components has been upgraded, such as Burson V6 Vivid discrete, Sparko 7915/1117-15 discrete voltage regulators, an external 250 Watt toroidal, Holco H4/PRP9372 1 Watt resistors, Audyn True Copper (huge sized) with Russian FT-1 Teflon/Mundorf 10,000uF M-Lytic/polystyrenes/Elna Silmic 2/Panasonic FR caps, BYV-27 rectifier diodes, PCB with extra thick copper, OFC wires, matched transistors BD139/140-16 and Dale 24 step volume attenuator. Has built it in a computer power supply, totally shield. I guess the total cost was about 400 - 500$.

The only headphone amplifiers I know with discretes and stepped volume volume attenuators are audio-GD Master 9/11 (without OpAmps) and Moon 430HA, which i.o. are balanced in Class A with a factory retail price at about 2.000$ and 4.500$. However, I still think that mine can compare fairly well with these.

At this moment I´m burning in the equipment with pink/white noise and sine waves. Then I´m gonna evaluate their device and circuits for A/B testing and reviewing mine against Burson Fun, V6 Classic and Sparko SS3601/2, 7915/1117-15, with a pair of Sennheiser HD 800 and Arcam CD 192 CD players with upsampling and dual analog outputs .

Has also built a "portable" battery-powered headphone amplifier with virtually the same kind of components, which can do a bit over 20 hours/charge with a 2 Ah battery pack. It´s quite heavy and clumsy, so nothing to carry in the pocket but in a backpack together with a FiiO X5 high resolution FLAC-player, paired with an interconnect Van Damme Twin and geniune HiFi headphones.

What I can say about the sound right now is that there is a totally black background together with a tremendous sound image and detail as well as power in abundance, even with high impedance phones also with the lowest gain setting!
 
Jun 9, 2019 at 11:34 AM Post #354 of 537
Not the best place to upload few pics, but might be interested in how your PSU and LBC look like, although a 30VA transformer should suffice, because your headamp will never need more power; not even the SPARKOS regulators will not regulate over 1.5A peak loads (that makes it 2x15Vx1.5A=45W max.). 250VA transformers are used in 2 x 100W power amplifiers. :)
 
Jun 9, 2019 at 12:34 PM Post #355 of 537
Not the best place to upload few pics, but might be interested in how your PSU and LBC look like, although a 30VA transformer should suffice, because your headamp will never need more power; not even the SPARKOS regulators will not regulate over 1.5A peak loads (that makes it 2x15Vx1.5A=45W max.). 250VA transformers are used in 2 x 100W power amplifiers. :)
I believe you´re right, it might be an "overkill" with such a powerful toroidal. The reason I chosed it, was because a friend at my work (now retired) bought it for his electrical hobby railway, but as he connected the wires uncorrectly, it started to smoke and the outer plastic shell began to melt - so he scrapped it. But as it was nicely working, I decide to implement it to my LBC amp.

I putted it in a separate smaller PC Power supply-enclosure, sized about 12 x 12 x 7 cm (5 x 5 x 3 inch) with it´s 230 VAC filter and a glass fuse and a 25 cm (10 inch) connecting wire to the amp. This way, the big size is not a big deal and there will also be less interference to the amp itself.

Below is a picture some month ago, before installing the discrete voltage regulators. The Yellow, blue, green and red muck are just hot glue and the many wirings are for connecting the aluminium shielding to the enclosure. The Panasonic FR are not perfectly straight, due to their size. I also had to solder the middle row for the six Wima 0,15uF on top of the other. And the two 470uF Elna Silmic 2 are soldered at the bottom of the PCB at the secondary side as they are really huge. For the four resistors in the power supply region (between the M-Lytic) and for the LED, I chosed standard metal film, all others are Holco/PRP9372.

One thing that´s worries me, are the Audyn True Copper for the DC-coupling, as they stated: "Made for passive crossover network for loudspeakers only. Any other useage is not allowed due to the construction!" But, I also read one comment it´s maybe because the CE-certifieing will cost alot, so the manufacuterer Intertechnic did´nt get that. But for their later generation in the same family, the Audyn TCC MAX, are recommended for use in audio equipments signal chain. It also about 10% expensier.

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tweaks&m=199122


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Jun 12, 2019 at 12:55 AM Post #356 of 537
Interesting mods indeed, thanks for sharing, but the 1.5uF DC-blocking caps are a bit too small and I anticipate a bit of freq. roll-off below 40Hz I really think something between 2.2-4.7uF will better suit this headamp, but given the extreme pricing on these caps I would definitely replace them with a DC-servo (few bucks for opamp and surrounding components) or, if the output DC is very low (less than 1mV) just use a wire. Of course, a headphones protection circuit might be added (10-20 bucks for both channels). Basically, when speaking about audio path: best cap is no cap. :)
 
Jun 13, 2019 at 6:50 AM Post #357 of 537
hi
can my zishan z2 can give needed voltage to burson v6 classic for full performance?
i will buy burson classic but i have little doupt that z2 will enough power for burson v6 classic.but need confirm from zishan z2 / v6 classic user.
thanks
 
Jun 16, 2019 at 4:32 AM Post #358 of 537
UOTE="raoultrifan, post: 15003930, member: 386058"]Interesting mods indeed, thanks for sharing, but the 1.5uF DC-blocking caps are a bit too small and I anticipate a bit of freq. roll-off below 40Hz I really think something between 2.2-4.7uF will better suit this headamp, but given the extreme pricing on these caps I would definitely replace them with a DC-servo (few bucks for opamp and surrounding components) or, if the output DC is very low (less than 1mV) just use a wire. Of course, a headphones protection circuit might be added (10-20 bucks for both channels). Basically, when speaking about audio path: best cap is no cap. :)[/QUOTE]
Ok, thank´s for your suggestion! How can I find schematic for DC-servo and what advantages will it have to blocking caps and are there any negative aspects also?

About the cap value for DC-blocking, the standard BCL and LBC only has 1,5uF while cheap china clones has 1,8uF. And for one LBC-amp, I only used 1uF that I will admit may be a bit on the low side, but however the bass are quite nice.

A few days ago, I also did a comparison for JRC NE5534, Burson V6 Vivid and also did a quick comparison to the Classic and a SparkoS SS3602 installed in my Burson Fun headphone amp, every A/B-test were done with the DIY stereo switch for instantly swapping between the simultaneously powered amps and compairing with my own DIY assembled LBC amp with a V6 Vivid and Sparko discrete voltage regulators SS7815 and SS1117-15, that will replace the original LM317 and LM337. Those discrete voltage regs will give the amp a steady and clean power voltage with very low noise and a black background.

Before the test, every OpAmp were burned in with pink/white noise and sinus waves for several hours. The test were again made with my Sennheiser HD 800 connected with the DIY A/B-switch to both amps simultaneously powered and listening to some CD´s, for example Ani DiFranco and Laura Pausini from 2006 - playing in my Arcam CD192 CD-player. Here are my conclusion:


As I already stated, the standard NE5534 are dull sounding some treble roll off and not as clear and open as all the other OpAmps. It´s not bad, but more in the same range as the OPA2134.

The difference between Burson V6 Vivid and Classic were the smallest between all tested and not as big as many people stated, that the Vivid should be more open with a bigger sound stage and the Classic should be warmer and closer. But their sound are in a totally other league, definitely a wider sound stage and more details.

The SS3602 had more treble than the all the other.

And when I compaired both amps with V6 Vivid for both, the DIY amp had a more open sound with a wider sound stage. But have in mind that I have paid a bit more for the DIY amp in component cost than the Burson Fun, that will cost $399 with V6´s. I think one of the biggest improvement for the DIY are the Dale 24 step volume attenuator, while the Fun has an Alp RK27 "Blue Velvet", found in mostly every well known amp in the market. One more thing I noticed, was the raw power for the Fun, as the volume knob were at bearly 9´clock, while the DIY were at almost 12´clock, when calibrated equally with noise. This amp is definitely a winner for it´s retail price, and combined with the V6 it´s remarkable good!

Beside for the Fun amp, I´ve used the V6 Vivid in a AK4490 DAC, also with amazingly good result, altough without the shell:

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My DIY amp were connected to the CD-player with a Van Damme Twin Interconnect, while I choosed the original bundle Pailiccs for the Fun. I also tried the Fun with a thick high grade silver plated OFC Interconnect, without any noticeable improvements. Therefore, I will praise the bundle Pailiccs quite high, altough I soldered the cables screen to the connectors for best connection. Have in mind that most other equipments bundle cables are of a very low quality that should be avoided to use for HiFi!

My verdict are that the Burson Fun have a very affordable price, compared to most other amps (for example; the Grado RA1 have a price, while having a very simple schematic, base on the Pimeta that can be done as a coffe break DIY-project), and will give a sound that will satisfy most people, and beat most of it´s competitors - especially if you choose a discrete OpAmp, regardless model. I´m aware there are at least one more discrete in the market; the NewClassD (confusingly working in Class A) - that are priced a bit higher than the Sparko, while the Burson models are the cheapest. While I hav´nt heard the NewClassD, I do not think it´s much better and I guess it will play in the same league with thos I´ve tested.

Finally, I really want to thank Charles at Burson and Andrew at SparkoS, as they equipped me with those discretes and made this test possible!
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Jun 16, 2019 at 6:40 AM Post #359 of 537
1.5uF seems to be the original value and based on http://sim.okawa-denshi.jp/en/CRtool.php, in conjunction with the 50KOhm potentiometer seems that bass starts to roll-off below 10Hz, which is perfect. The 1uF seems OK too.

Here's how TI deals with the DC blocking: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lme49600.pdf. Half of the opamp is used to block DC.

Also, https://audiofilifiorentini.files.w...e-sonore-al-dac-asus-one-che-risorgerc3a0.pdf -page 6, DC-servo with TL072.

However, you can use a DMM to measure output DC while you short-circuit the input cap (no headphones connected). If lower than 10mV then you can use a switch or a simple wire to A/B test if the DC-blocking cap is changing the sound or not. Usually, the most accurate sound is the one with no caps in signal path, but in my tests even a cheap MKP Wima cap is able to not change the sound in my circuits.
 
Jun 16, 2019 at 6:51 AM Post #360 of 537
1.5uF seems to be the original value and based on http://sim.okawa-denshi.jp/en/CRtool.php, in conjunction with the 50KOhm potentiometer seems that bass starts to roll-off below 10Hz, which is perfect. The 1uF seems OK too.

Here's how TI deals with the DC blocking: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lme49600.pdf. Half of the opamp is used to block DC.

Also, https://audiofilifiorentini.files.w...e-sonore-al-dac-asus-one-che-risorgerc3a0.pdf -page 6, DC-servo with TL072.

However, you can use a DMM to measure output DC while you short-circuit the input cap (no headphones connected). If lower than 10mV then you can use a switch or a simple wire to A/B test if the DC-blocking cap is changing the sound or not. Usually, the most accurate sound is the one with no caps in signal path, but in my tests even a cheap MKP Wima cap is able to not change the sound in my circuits.
Thank´s for your explain, raoultrifan!

I have tried earlier without any DC-blocking cap and as I can remember, the DC-value was abotu 20mV when connected to FiiO X5 as source. So it feels safer with those caps.

Another thing about OpAmps; Someone suggested shorting pin 5 and 8 (Trim and NC) for single OpAmps, such as OPA134 and OPA627, for DC Offset.

Can this mod be applied for any single OpAmp, also discretes? And what are the advantages?
 

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