[toxicsweet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolida302 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've noticed that when did some new solders on my Jolida tube amp, it needed seceral hours to be fully good.

Thats real. The high-frequency waves are carried on the surface of the cable, thats a well-known fact. Thats why single-wire cables are not suitable for audio.

When a new solder is made, its surface has certain resistance. After a few hours, the surface is covered with thin oxide layer with higher resistance. The result is that you get a little bit mellower highs. Thats especially noticeable when the solder is before the active semiconductor circuits - then it is amplified. Using special cover fluxes is one of the tricks to have bright highs. If the targeted sound signature of the product is more balanced, then the highs may be suppressed in the DAC section or by other tricks, but its better to use cover fluxes in order to keep the resistance low, which gives better resolution, imaging and soundstage.

 

[nylan8301]

Head-fi tends to be a little "burn-in" happy.

I say just listen to your gear. I figure if burn-in is real, then you might as well be listening to it in the mean-time.

Nylan

 

[x-kevin]

I agree to the above post, I listened to my headphones during the entire burn-in process! Burn-in on headphones does make some significant difference, not just because you are getting used to it but because the drivers need time to "loosen" up bit. Generally you can get more bass and eliminate harsh "highs" with burn-in.

Amp burn-in is not really that needed. As someone mentioned above, it takes merely seconds for the cap's to warm up. Also for wires it makes no difference seeing as there is no active electrical components.

 

[MrBenvolent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicsweet /img/forum/go_quote.gif When a new solder is made, its surface has certain resistance. After a few hours, the surface is covered with thin oxide layer with higher resistance. The result is that you get a little bit mellower highs. Thats especially noticeable when the solder is before the active semiconductor circuits - then it is amplified. Using special cover fluxes is one of the tricks to have bright highs. If the targeted sound signature of the product is more balanced, then the highs may be suppressed in the DAC section or by other tricks, but its better to use cover fluxes in order to keep the resistance low, which gives better resolution, imaging and soundstage.

*sniff*


Ahhh - smells like science


Thank you.

 

[MrBenvolent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nylan8301 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Head-fi tends to be a little "burn-in" happy. I say just listen to your gear. I figure if burn-in is real, then you might as well be listening to it in the mean-time. Nylan

I would agree with that - when I get my RSA Predator I am certainly not locking it away in a room to play to itself for 600 hours......!

 

[Pars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicsweet /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thats real. The high-frequency waves are carried on the surface of the cable, thats a well-known fact. Thats why single-wire cables are not suitable for audio. When a new solder is made, its surface has certain resistance. After a few hours, the surface is covered with thin oxide layer with higher resistance. The result is that you get a little bit mellower highs. Thats especially noticeable when the solder is before the active semiconductor circuits - then it is amplified. Using special cover fluxes is one of the tricks to have bright highs. If the targeted sound signature of the product is more balanced, then the highs may be suppressed in the DAC section or by other tricks, but its better to use cover fluxes in order to keep the resistance low, which gives better resolution, imaging and soundstage.

Skin effect is well known, but afaik is not very prevalent at low (audio) frequencies.

Your second paragraph is pretty mind-numbing however. You'll have to explain what you mean here:

When a new solder is made
I assume this means solder joint?

Using special cover fluxes
what are cover fluxes?

Ahhh - smells like science
No... really more like a pic on the previous page.

 

[Night Surfer]

Funny how "burn-in" is ALWAYS for the better.

Smells like placebo to me.

 

[triggerc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Surfer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Funny how "burn-in" is ALWAYS for the better. Smells like placebo to me.

Ding Ding Ding!

I find it funny how audio equipment only get better with age, nothing bad ever happens, even though all other electronic equipment has an average working lifetime.

 

[The Monkey]

People tend to forget that placebo works, too.

 

[Fixcinater]

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggerc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ding Ding Ding! I find it funny how audio equipment only get better with age, nothing bad ever happens, even though all other electronic equipment has an average working lifetime.

You very rarely hear of anyone discussing the "super deep but yet shockingly tight" bass of a vintage amp, true. But if you look at average component life and what the value of a resistor/cap is doing as the equipment ages, it will tend towards a softer/mellower/less "hi-fi" sound than when brand-new.

Take a 35 year old tube amp (with all original components) and compare it to a brand new, identically built amp with the same components (just brand new, rather than aged) and the old amp will make itself readily apparent in it's rolled highs and lows. Whether that is better is debatable, but most people would find that sound more pleasing to listen to. It happens with guitar amplifiers, it happens with audio circuitry. Aging is not burn-in. Circuit drift is real.

 

[Uncle Erik]

The freshness of a solder joint makes a difference? Not that I've noticed. I've probably made upwards of 10,000 of them on all manner of antique radios and DIY projects. I'm not familiar with flux covers, either. An explanation would be appreciated. I also find that unstranded wire works great and is easier to crimp to a solder lug. I like to give leads and wires a good, hard squeeze with pliers before soldering. That can be done with stranded wire, but is more difficult because the bundle deforms rather than gets squished against the lug.

Vintage gear is more mellow? Sorta. And it depends a LOT on the components. Modern caps and resistors are worlds better than carbon comp and paper/wax. They will drift eventually, but never like the vintage stuff.

As for manufacturers not "burning in" gear... I am highly skeptical of them. First off, it is NOT complicated and NOT expensive to run caps for however many hours they "need," or ANY other component, for that matter. $50 will make you a burn in board and the power draw probably wouldn't be much worse than leaving the porch light on 24/7. If someone is asking several hundred for an amp, the least they can do is spend $3 extra per month on electricity to burn in caps before they install them. There's no reason, whatsoever, why they can't burn in before the sale. You should ask the reason why burned in units are not sold. If you don't get a clear answer in lay terms, you should have a lot more questions.

 

[Duggeh]

Pick album, insert disc, press play, sit down.

Life is too damn short to be worrying about how optimised the electron flow in your RCA sockets might be. And its certainly too short for the BS that surrounds the typical Head-Fi pro burn in attitude.

 

[Jolida302]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBenvolent /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would agree with that - when I get my RSA Predator I am certainly not locking it away in a room to play to itself for 600 hours......!

It's getting better and better during the burn-in process and that's what's cool.

 

[Marcus80]

Here in the secret sub bilge of INC Tatianna, we occasionally defrost Dr Xin to perform updates to his firmware, as well as having him replace the feed water sparges to the old fissionator. During our many hours of idle chit chat we have found that by running varying amounts of current through him, we have successfully improved the quality of his output dramatically. His lows are tight and authorative, his mids buttery and present and his highs might as well have fallen from the pie holes of various seraphim (seraphi?). A far cry from the harsh sentiments hurled at our collective ears when we first got him. Oh, well, just my 2 rubles worth, Mark