Burn-in! Why? What? How? Who? In laymans terms....

[MrBenvolent]

So,

I am aware that high end audio gear I have owned in the past has taken a while to reach it's full potential - needed "breaking in" and indeed this was most noticeable on my Mission 780's a few years back.

Since starting to browse this forum however, I have noticed that "burn-in" for Amps, 'phones and even LODs seems to be a hot topic.

Having now ordered my Predator and having read many of the reviews on these forums, I am expecting somewhat of an epic run-in time before it reaches it's full potential!

So the question is really: why?

What happens to amps and cables and 'phones during this burn in process?

Why do some devices seemingly need a lot of burn-in and others very little or even none?

Why can devices not be released with "miles on the clock" from the factory, so that they are at their peak by the time you get your hands on them?


Cheers

 

[gregzx]

This is 90% BS so dont get too excited. People write many crazy stuff. Just be assertive. Cables do not need burn-in. Think about it.

 

[MrBenvolent]

Well this is partly my question as well - how much of what is considered "burn-in" is merely your ears and brain becoming used to a different sound produced by a different piece of kit?

I wasn't sure about LOD burn-in either, but still - people talk about it here..

Is burn-in just another endless audio equipment debate/bun-fight, to be had over and over again, like the benefit of buying expensive cable and interconnects or bi-wiring etc??

 

[gregzx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBenvolent /img/forum/go_quote.gif people talk about it here..

People here talk about differently sounding POWER CABLES. What does it say about those people? Do they sound reliable? People on internet say many weird things and, once again, we need to be assertive.

edit: I just want to state that I dont deny headphones burn-in. But someone please explain me the LOD or any other cable burn-in process...

 

[Jelle Schrijver]

OH NO, NOT AGAIN.....

I am in the Yes camp.....

>>>>>>>

 

[MrBenvolent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelle Schrijver /img/forum/go_quote.gif OH NO, NOT AGAIN..... I am in the Yes camp.....

heh - I figured this had probably been done before, but searching for "burn-in" just yielded too many results......


Still - as per my OP I am interested as to exactly what happens to components during the burn-in process to improve/change the sound.

 

[MrBenvolent]

PS - you remind me of Frank Black in that avatar...

 

[xnothingpoetic]

In layman's terms

 

[MrBenvolent]

^^^^

*off topic*


You have an iHP120.


I miss mine so much.


Best sounding DAP I have had and with line out/in and Dig/Op one of the best featured too.......







I left it on a plane along with a pair of E3c's and never saw it again.

 

[scottiebabie]

LOL! yaa to say "burn-in" is a controversial subject is the understatement of the century. but since the OP asked, i'll throw in my 2cents worth.

lets look at this from a scientific POV.
1.we know as a fact there's mechanical burn-in where certain materials will become more pliable thru repeated mechanical motions (esp. cyclical).

2.in metallurgy, its also an established fact that materials go thru molecular alteration/transformation thru cycles of heat & cold. this is called metal tempering & the same also applies with extreme cold via quenching or even cryo.

3.as a fact items like dynamic speaker drivers go thru repeated cyclical motions.

4.as a fact current flowing thru materials (cables & such) causes heat buildup & the resultant heat/cold cycles.

therefore scientifically speaking, its not impossible that materials after enduring kabazillion repeated cycles of the above may sustain minor or even major molecular change. and that this molecular alteration may have an effect on the resultant product called sound.

i myself is an absolute believer as i use my ears as the final arbiter instead of preconceived dogma. and my ears tells me there's a palpable difference. having said that, its not beyond the realm of reason that others maynot hear it & for them, there's no difference & hence, no such thing.

before we all go to our respective corners to begin battle or even sulk, let us consider that "no evidence isnt evidence of non existence of evidence" - it just means we cant measure it...for now. so we must use our respective ears & continue debating this until .....

as for why manufacturers dont apply preemptive burn-in, IMO the answers called time & effort = $$$. plain & simple, it takes time & effort to burn-in equipment & i for one, consider it a pain in the ass so if we amplify the hundreds or thousands (or more) for the manufacturer, we can perhaps understand why this isnt preemptively done. esp if we as consumers arent willing to pay

ps:just me 2cents & only me personal 2cents

 

[MrBenvolent]

^^^^^

Cheers scottiebaby, that was just the kind of considered reply I was after.

Like I said, it isn't my intention to start a bunfight here (probably been plenty on the subject already!) but to try and understand potential "scientific" reasons as to why burn-in could have a noticeable effect

 

[triggerc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottiebabie /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL! yaa to say "burn-in" is a controversial subject is the understatement of the century. but since the OP asked, i'll throw in my 2cents worth. lets look at this from a scientific POV. 1.we know as a fact there's mechanical burn-in where certain materials will become more pliable thru repeated mechanical motions (esp. cyclical). 2.in metallurgy, its also an established fact that materials go thru molecular alteration/transformation thru cycles of heat & cold. this is called metal tempering & the same also applies with extreme cold via quenching or even cryo. 3.as a fact items like dynamic speaker drivers go thru repeated cyclical motions. 4.as a fact current flowing thru materials (cables & such) causes heat buildup & the resultant heat/cold cycles. therefore scientifically speaking, its not impossible that materials after enduring kabazillion repeated cycles of the above may sustain minor or even major molecular change. and that this molecular alteration may have an effect on the resultant product called sound. i myself is an absolute believer as i use my ears as the final arbiter instead of preconceived dogma. and my ears tells me there's a palpable difference. having said that, its not beyond the realm of reason that others maynot hear it & for them, there's no difference & hence, no such thing. before we all go to our respective corners to begin battle or even sulk, let us consider that "no evidence isnt evidence of non existence of evidence" - it just means we cant measure it...for now. so we must use our respective ears & continue debating this until ..... as for why manufacturers dont apply preemptive burn-in, IMO the answers called time & effort = $$$. plain & simple, it takes time & effort to burn-in equipment & i for one, consider it a pain in the ass so if we amplify the hundreds or thousands (or more) for the manufacturer, we can perhaps understand why this isnt preemptively done. esp if we as consumers arent willing to pay ps:just me 2cents & only me personal 2cents

Scientifically speaking, driver burn-in does happen at the factory, where they run a sinusoidal wave through the drivers for some time. Capacitor burn-in happens in seconds, not hours, electronics "warm up" and settle in a matter of a couple of seconds. You do want your equipment to warm up before usage.

I don't deny that there may be changes as the headphones are broken in, but the changes are going to be so small that people should hardly notice the difference. Most of the burn-in here is just our ears getting used to the sound.

Cables burn-in and change sound? Come on, I've heard voodoo medicine more credible than that.

 

[chadbang]

Headphone, amps, sources, I say yes, it happens. I've also been skeptical about cables burning in.

 

[Jolida302]

Burn-in is a reality, for all kinds of electronics, speakers and cables.

 

[Jolida302]

About (passive) cables, like said up, it's probably due to a kind of "molecular alchemy" to use a poetic term, especially at the level of solders. I've noticed that when did some new solders on my Jolida tube amp, it needed seceral hours to be fully good.
Concerning cables feat. filtering boxes, they of course need a proper run-in for the electronic components to be run-in.