[grawk]

So far, the only thing these systems have over the mini is speed. They're bigger, noiser, less featureful, and uglier. And since the mac mini really is fast enough for HTPC needs, it's hard to argue these behemoths are a better choice...

 

[Edwood]

I wouldn't recommend A64 either.

It's still too hot.

Here is an example of what it took to make nearly dead quiet system based around a A64 3500+ S939 Winchester.

Yeah, it's a bit larger than a Mac Mini.

-Ed

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood I wouldn't recommend A64 either. It's still too hot. Here is an example of what it took to make nearly dead quiet system based around a A64 3500+ S939 Winchester.

However, Ed the A64 would chew up and spit out a 2GHz P4. Seems to me that if that is the requisite perfomance level, one could merely severely underclock and undervolt the A64. I just built a system for a friend using the much hotter Newcastle S754 chip, and the suck would run stable at stock speed with only 1.2V, resulting in very low load temps on an XP90 w/92MM Panaflo low @ 5v, in a case with little more airflow than your HTPC. Seems to me the size of this prospective system is the real hinderance.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer However, Ed the A64 would chew up and spit out a 2GHz P4. Seems to me that if that is the requisite perfomance level, one could merely severely underclock and undervolt the A64. I just built a system for a friend using the much hotter Newcastle S754 chip, and the suck would run stable at stock speed with only 1.2V, resulting in very low load temps on an XP90 w/92MM Panaflo low @ 5v, in a case with little more airflow than your HTPC. Seems to me the size of this prospective system is the real hinderance.

My A64 with CoolNQuiet runs at 1GHz when idling. But still registers about 32C even with two 120mm fans at 5V.

And yes, my A64 utterly destroys my P4 2.4's.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

bangraman, can you give up the tiny size novelty and go for a larger HiFi style component case? If you aren't going to lug this computer around, it could even look better than a Mac Mini.

Silverstone and Ahanix D.Vine cases really look nice.

-Ed

 

[bangraman]

Absolutely, as I said it the design requirements aren't rock solid. As long as it's decor neutral and fits a table/rack designed for hi-fi gear, that's fine.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman Absolutely, as I said it the design requirements aren't rock solid. As long as it's decor neutral and fits a table/rack designed for hi-fi gear, that's fine.

These might fully well eat up 1/4 of your budget or more. But they will look nice with hifi gear.

http://www.ahanix.com/

http://www.silverstonetek.com/

-Ed

 

[jrockway]

You're not going to be able to make a PC the size of a mac mini for $500 (or even for $1000, I bet). Your best bet is to get a nice mac mini, install Linux on it, and run MythTV. If you want video capture (which is the point of a HTPC), you'll have to get a Firewire video in for the mac mini, but there are plenty of those and I'm sure they work just fine with MythTV. There are also a variety of remote controls you can use to round out the package.

Unless your hourly rate is negative, you'll never do better than a real mac mini

 

[bangraman]

I want people to be able to say otherwise, so that a) if they can't we know it's the best affordable usable HTPC, and b) if they can... well, we'll have a better and more standard solution.


Video capture isn't necessarily the point of an HTPC. When people say HT, then a PVR is not usually part of the deal. It's only because it's a computer that people/geeks expect to be able to record video. But as you say, PVR solutions are available in living room friendly, separate Firewire boxes and as such a small controller unit is no handicap to adding PVR later.


The budget is the rough cost of a 1.4ghz model with 512MB RAM and Airport/BT built in with Apple mouse and keyboard.

 

[bangraman]

I'll also re-iterate the thread rule... Complete specs only.

 

[mshan]

Bangraman, none of us can read your mind.

With your stipulation, I think you will end up a system that the designer likes, but not necessarily you.

If you tell us what components you like and what components you don't, we may collectively be able to zero in on a system that performs very well, is in budget, and that you may actually like.

I'm guessing that a lot of us are actually quite Apple-friendly, so it's not like we're trying to antagonize you.

 

[bangraman]

This isn't necessarily about me. This is a sort of challenge, so how you interpret it is up to you. As I said, if the build meets the requirements to the best of our pooled knowledge, I will build it.


Remember that we aren't even getting to the software. These are the basics The most important requirements would be the attributes that would logically entail a living room use:


~Noise (this is where you will need to be most creative to even match the Mini)
~Comprehensive remote operation for HTPC-relevant OS and application tasks (the cost of additional remote control hardware need NOT be taken into consideration if Bluetooth control is offered for a sufficiently varied range of devices)
~Sufficient power for most HTPC tasks
~Decor neutrality
~Cost


It's also about getting imaginative solutions out here in a single thread that's easy to look through. Many HTPC-solutions which you can readily spot in forums like this one are usually powerful PC's. And most HTPC use being what it is (especially for Head-Fi audio-centric use), you don't always need a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Laying my own cards on the table slightly, I've already spent about £1,000 so far trying various HTPC cases, cooling solutions, etc on both Athlon XP/64 and P4 platforms, although I have not gone for 'esoterica' or lesser-known processors. So far, even with my still limited exposure to the Mini, it's enough to tell me that none of what I've tried gets close to it as a 'Living Room HTPC'. If a viable competitor is found, well it means that we all have to scratch our heads less frequently when we're looking for a truly quiet, readily-deployable, affordable HTPC on the Windows platform.

 

[mshan]

Fair enough.

My budget multimedia center would be:

- Antec Aria case
- Biostar M7NCG rev. 7.2 mATX mobo (must have 7.2 or 1.0 revision for adjustable CPU multipliers and Vcore settings in BIOS)
- 35 or 45 W mobile Athlon XP (2200+ to 2600+; whatever is cheapest)
- 1 x 256 MB Kingston Value RAM PC2700 (could substitute 2 x 256 MB KVR dual channel kit or move up 1 x 512 MB Buffalo Tech PC3200 with Winbond CH5 chips, but probably don't need the increased memory bandwidth with the applications I would use)
- 160 GB Samsung hard drive (may need some sort of suspension within the case to completely eliminate hum transmitted to the case, though hum may not be perceptible from listening / viewing position say 10 ft. away; I chose the Samsung over a Seagate because ATI HDTV Wonder is always recording to disk, so the seek noises may become annoying while watching tv)
- NEC-3520 DVDRW drive (has a very quiet speed-limited DVD reading mode; CD playback isn't very quiet, but I am assuming all CDs are ripped to hard drive and most DVDs are played back off of disk because of hard drive space limitations)
- ATI Radeon 9600 video card (don't want the pro, xt, or se versions) with HDTV DVI to component output adapter
- ATI HDTV Wonder PCI slot OTA HDTV tuner
- sound card of your choice and / or an Apple Airport Express for streaming music wirelessly
- last slot can be used for a PCI slot wireless card. Don't know about Bluetooth support, but Girder would seem to provide flexibility for an awful lot of components and other remotes.
EDIT: just realized that you wanted IEEE. The Biostar doesn't have IEEE, so you would have to put a PCI card in and use a USB wireless adapter.
- Windows XP Home SP2

The HDTV Wonder includes ATI's Multimedia Center and rf remote that are essentially plug and play out of the box (assuming you have compatible hardware). Just note that this is only an Over The Air HDTV tuner, but can also accept a non-HDTV signal from a cable box.

I like iTunes as my music jukebox and I like the picture quality of the ATI DVD player. I would just send the component out signal to an Infocus 4805 DLP projector and let it's Faroudja chip do the de-interlacing of non-progressive signals. I like non-oversampled sound and I think my preference would be for a minimally processed dvd signal too (i.e. no FFDShow filters).

I would run the mobile XP at stock or lower voltage and fsb 166 would probably be plenty fast for most of my needs (thus, lower power consumption, less heat, and hopefully a silent power supply exhaust fan).

For a full blown HTPC, I would eventually build around Athlon64 or mobile P4 with the adapter Asus is releasing for some of it's mobos. I would use some variant of the Nvidia 6600GT and probably Theatertek as a software based DVD player. This, of course, would be in a mid / full tower with excellent case ventilation to keep these powerful components essentially silent (and cool).

 

[kamaurul]

Asus Pundit - ~$130.00 / Asus Pundit-R - ~$160.00
Intel Pentium 4 Northwood/ 2.26 GHz 533MHz FSB, 512K Cache - Retail - $127.49

Seagate 80 GB Barracuda 7200RPM SATA - $71.00
Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - $48.00
SONY Black 16X DVD-ROM Drive - $26.00
Logitech Cordless Desktop LX700 Keyboard and Mouse - $59.00
Microsoft Windows XP HOME Edition With Service Pack 2 -OEM - $92.95
IOGEAR Bluetooth to USB Adapter, Class 2, Model GBU211 - $29.00

Hawking Technology Wireless-G Cardbus PC Card, Model "HWC54G" -Retail - $33.00 (because the Asus Pundits have got a PCMCIA adapter in their front I/O)

Total cost: $616.44 (Pundit) / $646.44 (Pundit-R)

 

[kamaurul]

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (Socket 939) - $146.00
MSI "RS480M2-IL" ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 Chipset Motherboard - $92.50

Seagate 80 GB Barracuda 7200RPM SATA - $71.00
Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - $48.00
SONY Black 16X DVD-ROM Drive - $26.00
Logitech Cordless Desktop LX700 Keyboard and Mouse - $59.00
Microsoft Windows XP HOME Edition With Service Pack 2 -OEM - $92.95
IOGEAR Bluetooth to USB Adapter, Class 2, Model GBU211 - $29.00
SMC EZconnect g 54Mbps Wireless PCI Ethernet Adapter - $39.00

So far, $603.45. And the final ingredient:
Soldam Staja case
I don't know how much this costs. A bajillion dollars most probably.


A few other interesting stuff I managed to find, but couldn't mix & match to meet this thread's requirements.
Mini-ITX cases: Soldam Alphia, Silverstone LC12, 4XEM ELITE
Mini-ITX boards: Kontron 886LCD-M/mITX, MBase/iBase MB890, Insight P4-ITX