Build me a PC "Mac Mini"

[bangraman]

OK... lets' get the ball rolling. I managed to get the Aria set up today with a Gigabyte Athlon MATX board today. I already have had a Pundit and a couple of "Lascala"s for some time.

Cases:

Pundit: FAIL (noise)
Silverstone LC10S-M: FAIL (noise)
Aria: Provisional FAIL (noise-couldn't work out how to mount 'quiet' cooling fan systems despite the brackets provided... only 80mm fans, and even then it would be likely to fail on noise).

Cooling systems under normal load:
Zalman CPNS7000-Alcu: FAIL (noise)
Zalman CPNS6000-Alcu: FAIL (noise)

I can't get hold of an Athlon Mobile.

 

[philodox]

That is interesting as Antec claims that the Aria is the most quiet computer case ever.

Looks like you might be best off going with a Mac Mini.

Are we sure that it is extremely quiet? Does anyone on head-fi own one?

 

[mshan]

I think the slightly deceiving claim refers to the non-resonant chassis itself, rather than it's ultimate quietness in use (it's supposed to contain noise very well, but the power supply fan spins up audibly if you start putting hot components in it):
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article146-page1.html

I also own a couple Zalmans and agree that they are quiet, but most definitely not silent. Some over at SPCR have replaced the fan with something quieter like a Nexus 92 mm fan (search the archives there - it involves cutting away most of the plastic frame of the replacement fan, then drilling two small holes in it to mount it to the Zalman heatsink). There are also software fan control programs such as Speedfan and Motherboard Monitor that allow you to set a higher target cpu temp so that the fan spins slower and presumably quieter.

I belive they also say that the Thermalright Si-97 is the best socket A cooler and is supposed to work very well with undervolted quiet fans: http://www.silentpcreview.com/section10.html

If you are trying to achieve true silence (and don't need massive amounts of hard drive space), a suspended notebook hard drive might work out really well for you (picture of suspended hard drive here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article228-page3.html ; just note that I think you need some special power and IDE cable adapter).

You may be able to get an used mobile Athlon XP (from an European seller) here?: http://forums.anandtech.com/categori...=45&entercat=y (does your Gigabyte mobo have cpu multiplier and VCore settings in BIOS?). The mobile XPs are just supposed to be regular cpu's that have been selected because they function well at lower voltages. You could just try underclocking your current cpu and see what it is stable doing (don't know if there are any hazards to doing this, so do this at your own risk).

There also are a lot of international forum members at Silent PC Review, so a WTB ad here http://forums.silentpcreview.com/vie...569a503c4f2a3c might be fruitful for you.

Also, the Nforce2 chipset in the Biostar M7NCG is supposed to be better than the Via chipset in your Gigabyte mobo. If you can find a revision 1.0 M7NCG, I believe it has IEEE in addition to Soundstorm audio processing unit, in addition to the require cpu multiplier and vCore adjustments in BIOS.

Hope this helps!

 

[bangraman]

Odd. What I write additionally for the Aria didn't show up... maybe I erased the line by mistake:


Why the Aria provisionally fails is because of the CPU fan. I can't see one of the established 'quiet' fans fitting. The PSU is very quiet under minimal load, and shows promise.


I've misplaced the CPNS7000 which is the only thing which might fit. I'll have to see whether I can find it. But to tell the truth, I don't really find either the 7000 or 6000 all that silent, especially after the PC's been on a while. Are there any low-profile quiet cooling solutions?


Oh, and I'm already using an 80Gb 2.5" drive.

 

[mshan]

Thermalright Si-97 with a quiet 92 mm fan (undervolted with a Zalman fanmate or software program such as Speedfan; also, Nexus is a European based company, so I'm guessing their 92 mm fan is readily available and probably cheaper for you than us in the states; check the U. K. sticky at the SPCR link I provided above). It is supposed to be the best socket A cooler and apparently still cools quite well with an undervolted fan. Also, what type of cpu temps are you running or allowing? If you're willing to accept higher temps, you could probably even run a Made in Japan 80 mm Panaflo L1A on it safely (Made in Japan Panaflo's are supposed to have less bearing noise than the Made in China ones: http://www.dorothybradbury.co.uk).

You will just have to check at Silent PC Review and see if it will clear the power supply in the Antec Aria.

 

[mshan]

UK: http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=4644

Europe: http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=19755

And of course the Classified Forums at SPCR (there appear to be many international forum members at SPCR): http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewforum.php?f=5

Also, if you end up finding the psu fan spinning up unacceptably, you can replace the fan with a 120 mm Nexus fan like they do here (http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/quiet_cube.html). Obviously voids the warranty and could be detrimental to your equipment, so do you at your own risk.

 

[flambo]

You can still buy a new Athlon XP-Mobile at newegg for about $79-$100.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...codevalue=4181

 

[bangraman]

Bad news guys.


I've kept the Aria on for several hours now, using an Athlon XP 2000+ as the test CPU. I left it sitting there, doing nothing. The PSU fan does start to generate a noticeable level of noise once the PSU itself starts to warm up.


If I find a fan that doesn't contribute to noise levels, I'll keep this as my secondary HTPC anyway. But I'm beginning to suspect that it's not possible to create a Mac Mini beater at the moment, not without going to ridiculous levels of geeking.

 

[gsferrari]

Im surprised you guys are even trying...It is like comparing Ferrari's formula one team with say...Jordan Toyota. Engines, aerodynamics, chassis, suspension EVERYTHING done in house by Ferrari. Jordan does chassis/aero/suspension and relies on Toyota works engines. Though the Toyota engine is the most powerful on the F1 grid right now look where Jordan is. Compare with Toyota F1 which like Ferrari does everything in-house.


Apple does everything in house. Fantastic stuff - I own the mini and love it.

Wintel can never do this because of the wide variety of hardware available for use on their platforms...they have to keep everyone happy. Apple is only answerable to itself.

Therefore you will have excellent "mission critical" systems from Apple. With Intel you are basically assembling a jack of all trades...a chameleon which can change form and functionality.

But it will never be as well integrated as Apple's products...

 

[mshan]

Did you put that PCI slot fan blower in the case?

It's supposed to be very quiet and perhaps it may keep your psu fan from spinning up?

Can I also ask you for your impressions of the noise that the Aria puts out? How loud is it and, more importantly, what's it character? Does it blend fairly well with ambient noise or does it have a particularly grating and hard to ignore nature. (I want to build a music server for my hi-fi rig, so noise is going to be a signficant issue).

Could you also outline what components you currently have installed in your Aria?

I want to build a music server for my hi-fi rig, so noise is going to be a signficant issue and also wonder if it's possible with an undervolted Athlon XP and very low power video card.

 

[bangraman]

Part of the reason I bought the Gigabyte mobo is that it has integrated video, and the chipset is fanless. I did put in a DVI requirement, but I thought if it push came to shove, I could do without an AGP card. So that's how I've been running it for testing.


All thats inside the case is the Gigabyte GA-7VM400AM, 512MB single stick Corsair DDR400 RAM, Athlon XP2000+ with retail cooler, 80Gb Toshiba 2.5" HDD and a DVD-ROM drive. Rounded IDE cable, and cables are tidied off to the side. You can't really get an emptier PC. The stock CPU fan is obviously putting out quite a bit of noise, but the PSU fan is after a while audible alongside the CPU fan. The benchmark here is the Mac Mini and there's not really much comparison. However you'll have to wait for final noise opinions until I get another fan to fit in there.


But clearly, I think we have observed during this exercise that if you're not a geek then it's very difficult to source something which will do the same job as the Mac Mini in the same way on a Wintel platform. Due to it's physical and noise parameters the Mini is a particularly relevant 'HT'PC for Head-Fi users. Building PC's is merely time consuming and not a brain taxing activity, but the sense of futility is there when I spend repeated hours bolting bits together only to find that it does a significantly worse job than something which I bought off the shelf with zero geeking.


The Si-97 is unlikely to fit. I've measured from the top of the AMD CPU to the bottom of the PSU overhang and it's about 60mm, give or take ~+3mm. The CPNS7000 has a claimed height of 62mm, and the reason I thought I'd misplaced it was because I've given it away. I'll have to buy another one (unless you can suggest something of the same/lower stack height), fit it and give you my final noise opinions. If the 7000 doesn't work, I'll have to experiment with the 80mm Panaflo, as it's claimed in the documentation that an 80mm fan can be accomodated.

 

[mshan]

I've seen multiple references about the Zalman 7000 fitting in the Antec Aria (I think up to 65 mm is ok), but I think the bearing / motor noise, even at 5V, will probably be unacceptable to you.

Thermalright SLK-800a with a fan attached to the power supply with that special fan bracket? You could also then use part of one of those fan vibration reduction kits to reduce vibrations transmitted from the fan to the power supply casing.

Kinda depressing that even with your very low power components that the psu fan still spins up. Is it just not silent or is it annoyingly perceptible?

 

[bangraman]

Sorry mshen, I edited the post. Might like to have a look at it again...

 

[mshan]

I would have to agree that Apple's are very nice because they appear so well thought out and they are plug and play right out of the box.

There is limited upgradeability, but like you said, for most casual users, it's probably all that is needed.

I think the main argument you will get from Head-Fi'ers is the integrated audio, but an Apple Airport Express takes care of that with bit perfect optical output and a pretty nice analog output to boot.

P. S. - can I ask which drive you have in your Mac Mini and how much noise does it make when it's spinning cd's or dvd's?

 

[skitlets]

Well, I've actually planned this setup, though using the via processors.
ms10000e ($239)
Travla C137-120W Black ($177)
512 ddr pc3200 ($70)
samsung 40g laptop hard drive MP0402H ($72) or Toshiba MK4025GAS ($80)
total - $571

or you could go the shuttle route.
Shuttle Zen XPC ST62K ($260)
p4 2.8c ($189)
512 ddr pc3200 ($70)
samsung spinpoint 80g ($64)
total - $583

Most of these prices are off of newegg, except for the mini-itx and shuttle case.
Problem with the Shuttle is the lack of built-in wireless and only 1 pci slot, the Via system its lack of speed. However, I'd trade in the lack of speed for 2 pci slots and zero-moving parts, excluding the hard drive.