[lukeahale]

Another point to add to your quite lovely post that I think well represents most of us who are sitting back, quietly enjoying our ODACs and O2s.  I find one of the coolest things about the designer of our Objective DAC, is that if at some point, it turns out that there is another measurement that is discovered that reveals something that does in fact hurt the sound (not likely, but possible), I bet the first person to make sure and take that measurement to test it, is NwAvGuy himself.  Just some food for thought.

 

[brat]

Quote:

Also, this is something funny you said, which seems to contradict what you're saying here. http://www.head-fi.org/t/584339/review-resolution-audio-cantata-music-center-dac-cd-player/60#post_8508122

It's good to delve into this. It's true. Evaluating sources (or cables, or anything else) with headphones can be misleading. Unless you use only headphones and never speakers. Then you can be satisfied even with ODAC

I've said my opinion about ODAC. I do not want to persuade anybody.
Enough.
I'm out of this thread

 

[tzjin]

Quote:

The Benchmark Dac1 was my favorite DAC after hearing it FOUR years ago before all this fuss started. Then I got into head-fi. It was pretty clear even before NwAvGuy showed up it was pretty much the best the market had to offer (especially at its time).
 
NwAvGuy literally shut down AN ENTIRE shrouded and illusioned "Hi Fi" market. It is no more. All that exists are those who like $1200 + tubes, which are NOT accurate representations of music.
 
Have fun with your tubes. The other 3,600 of us who've bought ODAC's now, will shut up quiet and continue to enjoy our ODACs, (which is for all practical intents the most accurate DAC on the planet) which I HAVE BLIND TESTED with others against the Benchmark Dac1.
 
Go read NwAvGuys blog or read Innerfidelity and it's confirmation and affirmation of all the [practical / truthful] measurements.
 
Voldemort did a big service to the entire "Hi Fi" community that was throwing money away (myself included [10's of thousands of dollars in headphone, dacs, estats, all of them, you name it, all the way up to Orpheus] for the last four years) is sure to reverberate for years and perhaps decades to come. The fools and the uneducated will continue to throw money away, and that is it. Many have moved on and have not commented about the odac. Those are hard numbers by the way.
 
If you like your music colored or are used to your speakers or headphones then so be it. The rest of us will enjoy an inarguably as near humanly (practically) perfect DAC you can get. And for nothing, pretty well as a gift, almost no money! [Not that 100-150$ doesn't hold value] But for many of us, we're more than grateful this is the new ceiling. There is no reason to spend more for the everyday, casual, or deciphering engineer.
 
Price means just as much as performance. Fortunately here you get the MAXIMUM of both. Less than 3% of odac owners have said anything about it. We're all just amazed, and now we all know that everybody already knows about it anyway.
 
The rest (others) are a dying breed. (And good riddance to spending 2+ - 10K or more on individual setups.
 
The best part is the ODAC can dac anything, from Speakers to dynamics to EStats, it does it all. 
 
Source first, then headphones / w/e casual listening medium you'll use. Your source can make almost anything sound good.
Even a little cheesy 2.1 speaker setup, which I've finally downgraded to. The ODAC has allowed me [and literal hordes of others] to move on with my life.

 
Firstly, a DAC converts digital to analog, which mean it will serve as a source for anything that needs an analog signal. The ODAC is not special in that regard.
 
 
Secondly, for all your idolism of the most extreme objectivist in the audiophile world at the moment, you have been very subjective in your argument. "Literal hordes" and "sure to reverbate for years and perhaps decades to come"? Calling those with Hi-Fi gear a "dying breed" should also be supported by objective evidence if it is to be taken seriously.
 
Voldemort has created a very nice product, at a very attractive price, but he has not "shut down an entire shrouded and illusioned 'Hi-Fi' market". There are still high-end DAC's, both tube and SS, being bought and sold today. When someone wants a nice DAC for a home setup, they commonly look elsewhere. Why? Because although the ODAC measures very well, it lacks the inputs and flexibility that many desire.
 
Also, many of the threads in the Sound Science forum are about if we can hear a difference between the ODAC and a higher-end DAC if they measure the same. The ODAC is not alone in being "the most accurate DAC on the planet". The top DAC's measure so similarly as to be supposedly inaudible. Voldemort should have said the same in his blog. After your blind testing, I assume you arrived at this conclusion as well?
 
Can you please show me where you came to the 3600 ODAC users and 3%? I am actually curious about this one. Also, could you explain what figures your "hard numbers" was referencing?
 
I respect that the you love your ODAC very much, and believe it measures incredibly well. Please maintain the same respect for others on the forums. Your "fools and the uneducated" include many respected members, and basically insults anyone who purchases a DAC other than the ODAC. As I mentioned above, even if the two DAC's measure the same, the lack of features on the ODAC might be a deal-breaker for some. There were some strange opinions posted above yours, but there is no need to get personal.
 
Not even going to comment on "inarguably ... near perfect" DAC. If you are unwilling to even consider another view, it is not worth my time.
 


No offense was intended in this post. I am sorry if any was perceived.

 

[lukeahale]

Quote:

Secondly, for all your idolism of the most extreme objectivist in the audiophile world at the moment, you have been very subjective in your argument. "Literal hordes" and "sure to reverbate for years and perhaps decades to come"? Calling those with Hi-Fi gear a "dying breed" should also be supported by objective evidence if it is to be taken seriously.

This is honestly a bit of a straw man argument.  Not to say that I don't agree with many of your points also, but I just feel this part was a bit unnecessary. (Though to be fair, it also wasn't really necessary for him to make those comments, and didn't help his point either, lol)  

 

[lukeahale]

Of course by my own logic, that comment by me just now wasn't really necessary or helpful either... but whatever, we all make mistakes.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

To the people saying that brat is full of it....have any of you actually heard any higher end dacs? cause if not you're living in a bit of a smug world of naivete just assuming that what you have is better or at least as good as anything anyone else has. Brat came here and left his opinion, after ACTUALLY HEARING ALL THE DEVICES IN QUESTION. So berating him, probably the person most capable of saying how good the dac is, compared to others who havent heard higher end dacs, is a bit of an indefensible position.
 
Maybe you should go listen to better equipment before you start saying that it isnt worth it. And im not saying the ODAC is a terrible dac, it's probably a perfectly respectable dac for the money, a good value even. but that doesnt mean its the end all be all of dacs, and parroting Nwavguy's party line doesnt really prove you know what you're talking about either.

 

[tzjin]

To be fair Rithrin claims to have heard the Benchmark DAC1, and Brat was a bit unclear in his allegations.
 
But I agree with your post.

 

[ChicaneBT]

@tzjin
If you only were this meticulous at criticizing the posts of brat. But strangely enough you didn't. 

 

[tzjin]

Quote:

@tzjin
If you only were this meticulous at criticizing the posts of brat. But strangely enough you didn't. 

 
It had already been done quite thoroughly. But yes, his arguments weren't stellar.

 

[muad]

I agree, it will be nice to have the odac in the oda to get some premp functionality! What other features were you referring to?
 
thanks

As I mentioned above, even if the two DAC's measure the same, the lack of features on the ODAC might be a deal-breaker for some.

 

[lukeahale]

Quote:

To the people saying that brat is full of it....have any of you actually heard any higher end dacs? cause if not you're living in a bit of a smug world of naivete just assuming that what you have is better or at least as good as anything anyone else has. Brat came here and left his opinion, after ACTUALLY HEARING ALL THE DEVICES IN QUESTION. So berating him, probably the person most capable of saying how good the dac is, compared to others who havent heard higher end dacs, is a bit of an indefensible position.
 
Maybe you should go listen to better equipment before you start saying that it isnt worth it. And im not saying the ODAC is a terrible dac, it's probably a perfectly respectable dac for the money, a good value even. but that doesnt mean its the end all be all of dacs, and parroting Nwavguy's party line doesnt really prove you know what you're talking about either.

Just because he says he has heard them does not mean it is true.  On the same token, just because others have not explicitly stated that they HAVE heard more expensive(not necessarily better) also does not mean they have not. So that doesn't really prove a point either, though generally we all seem to trust people are being relatively honest with us here. 
 
My main reason for commenting on the statements of brat were mainly to point out that many of the claims he was making are completely absurd, regardless of what he thinks of the ODAC.  To claim that something that is "not a part of the audible frequencies" is of more importance than the audible frequencies, when it comes to audio/sound/music a.k.a. things that you hear or are AUDIBLE.... that's the point of a post to where everything that follows has been basically discredited.  And sadly enough, that was his very first sentence.  This is why I find his opinions less valid, regardless of what other equipment he may have (or just claimed to have) heard.

 

[fenderf4i]

Quote:

To the people saying that brat is full of it....have any of you actually heard any higher end dacs? cause if not you're living in a bit of a smug world of naivete just assuming that what you have is better or at least as good as anything anyone else has. Brat came here and left his opinion, after ACTUALLY HEARING ALL THE DEVICES IN QUESTION. So berating him, probably the person most capable of saying how good the dac is, compared to others who havent heard higher end dacs, is a bit of an indefensible position.
 
Maybe you should go listen to better equipment before you start saying that it isnt worth it. And im not saying the ODAC is a terrible dac, it's probably a perfectly respectable dac for the money, a good value even. but that doesnt mean its the end all be all of dacs, and parroting Nwavguy's party line doesnt really prove you know what you're talking about either.

A sighted, biased comparison means just as little as having never heard them at all.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

Quote:

Just because he says he has heard them does not mean it is true.  On the same token, just because others have not explicitly stated that they HAVE heard more expensive(not necessarily better) also does not mean they have not. So that doesn't really prove a point either, though generally we all seem to trust people are being relatively honest with us here. 
 
My main reason for commenting on the statements of brat were mainly to point out that many of the claims he was making are completely absurd, regardless of what he thinks of the ODAC.  To claim that something that is "not a part of the audible frequencies" is of more importance than the audible frequencies, when it comes to audio/sound/music a.k.a. things that you hear or are AUDIBLE.... that's the point of a post to where everything that follows has been basically discredited.  And sadly enough, that was his very first sentence.  This is why I find his opinions less valid, regardless of what other equipment he may have (or just claimed to have) heard.

 
My main argument is that many of you seem to be standing up on your soap box of objectivity, with little to no experience. 
 
Its totally fine that you are happy with what you have, as i said im sure its a solid dac for very little money. But that doesnt mean there isnt better.
 
it also doesnt mean that you can bring down other people, just because they happen to have better equipment. I know everyone wants to believe that they can get the best of the best for 150 dollars, its a cute dream, but that is really all it is.

 

[lukeahale]

Quote:

 
My main argument is that many of you seem to be standing up on your soap box of objectivity, with little to no experience. 
 
Its totally fine that you are happy with what you have, as i said im sure its a solid dac for very little money. But that doesnt mean there isnt better.
 
it also doesnt mean that you can bring down other people, just because they happen to have better equipment. I know everyone wants to believe that they can get the best of the best for 150 dollars, its a cute dream, but that is really all it is.

Once again you are making assumptions about what people have or have not heard, and what experience people do or do not have. 
 
Just because someone (myself for example) has not been a very active member of Head-Fi, nor even a member for very long, does not mean we have little/no experience.  Just because someone only has a few items listed in their current equipment, again, does not prove they have never owned/heard expensive equipment.  You make a lot of assumptions, and that's one of the main differences with this whole Subjective/Objective thing... Objective is based almost solely on evidence, subjective tends to be based on a lot of unproven assumptions, with very little real evidence.

 

[sridhar3]

Quote:

have any of you actually heard any higher end dacs? cause if not you're living in a bit of a smug world of naivete just assuming that what you have is better or at least as good as anything anyone else has.
 
Maybe you should go listen to better equipment before you start saying that it isnt worth it.

 
This is pathological on Head-Fi.  Let's all make broad blanket generalizations about stuff we've never heard before.
 
Even if the ODAC is the greatest thing since sliced bread, if you're going to argue that it's objectively no worse and no better than any high-end DAC, then let's see some data to back that up.  Objectivity cuts both ways.  If you claim to know something I don't, then you'd better damn well show me some proof.
 
Quote:

My main argument is that many of you seem to be standing up on your soap box of objectivity, with little to no experience. 

 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/619534/i-dont-understand-you-subjective-guys/45#post_8557259
 
As it would turn out, majority of the people parroting on and on about measurements know very little about measurements to begin with.