[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Wow, I've only heard that ferrite beads help with an audio signal. I had no idea it was actually a bad thing. I wonder why the ODAC comes with a ferrite beaded USB cable.

 
It's possible there is no audible difference with some headphones and the included cables 1 foot length. Not sure.
 
A good test would be to try to use a longer length (like 5 feet) and try many different headphones. A closed and very revealing headphone is best.
 
I wonder what would happen if you placed 10 Ferrite beads on a USB cable

 
Sorry, I'm easily amused..
 
Wait! No audible difference, requires volume matching and blind A/B test. All placebo!
 
EDIT: I just switched back between cables again and it's definitely very audible. Less so on my Magni and open headphones. On my DJ100 it makes everything seem more congested and warmer, like the lower mids are more forward and there is less treble. If anyone tests this, try it with any music that's warm and has a larger soundstage. I tried some Tony Bennett recordings and "Buena Vista Social club". Recordings that can often sound congested on a very warm headphone are best.
 
I bet a good headphone to test the differences would be the M50 or a bassier headphone that has slightly rolled off treble. Even the HD-650 might do the trick.
 
What it sounds like is what happens I connect my Headphone amps up to a MOV based surge protector, but even worse. Same symptoms almost.
 
EDIT 2: I just bypassed my USB hub (powered) and went directly to my computer. I switched between a 1' USB cable with ferrite core and a 1' USB cable with. It's stupid easy to tell the difference.  This was with the DJ100 and Headroom Micro Amp and ODAC. Similar results with HD-650. I highly doubt there can be an audible difference between USB cables even without the ferrite core (I know the whole 1s and 0s thing).
 
Hey, maybe it's the gold plating degrading the sound!!!

Only kidding...
 
I think this has to be the most bizarre thing I've encountered in years.

 

[Taowolf51]

Is it possible that your cable is simply faulty?

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Is it possible that your cable is simply faulty?

 
I have two 1' Monoprice cables with Ferrite cores that are brand new. Maybe I can dig up another one with a ferrite that's just as short and made by someone else. There is always the chance they're not very high quality, but Monoprice stuff is generally very good. I like their interconnect cables.
 
The only ones I have right in front of me are too long.
 
It was a joke at first, but it seriously would be funny to see what happens when you put a ton of ferrite beads on a USB cable. It'll be one of my stupid experiments for "research". Like the time I made an interconnect cable with stupid lamp cord. Dumbest thing I ever did.
 
I'm going to retire from this silly hobby if there is zero audible change to my ears

 
My Magni is really noisy so I can see how a ferrite USB cable can help. It did for me. Instead I put a ferrite bead on it's power cable.

 

[Satellite_6]

Quote:

 
Instead of trolling a forum and calling people morons, why don't you try it with your own ears and report back? Wait, you won't because you might be wrong and this is NOT POSSIBLE! Quit making such a big deal out of nothing. If you don't believe it, who cares? Nobody is endorsing $100 audiophile cables here. Most people have extra USB cables around. It takes a whole minute to switch a USB cable.
 
Oh god..enough with the placebo and volume matching nonsense. I'd love to do this if I actually wanted to prove something to someone. I don't.
 
It's just as "completely utterly moronic" to automatically think the ODAC will sound best just because the designer included a ferrite bead USB cable.

If it's not possible I can't be wrong. 

 
You are spreading extremely ignorant opinions which I find annoying.
 
Yes the designer is clearly the idiot here. 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

If it's not possible I can't be wrong. 

 
You are spreading extremely ignorant opinions which I find annoying.
 
Yes the designer is clearly the idiot here. 

If my posts are annoying, just ignore them or block me. Your posts annoy me too, especially when you preach about cables and try to crap all over every thread.
 
I'm telling people what I'm hearing and to test things for themselves, but then someone (you) has to act childish about it and claim we're all hearing things.
 
Too much drama over something that's probably free and takes 1 minute to correct.
 
If my posts are ignorant opinions, feel free to prove that ferrite cores 100% do not degrade audio in any way with every setup. Good luck with that.
 
Oh and the fact that my setup sounds better without ferrite bead cables is NOT an opinion.
 
It's interesting that you're willing to ignore what's posted on the USB website suggesting to not use ferrite core cables for audio, yet you think it's 100% OK (without any testing) just because you got a free USB ferrite cable with your ODAC. Wow, weird. Not every setup needs that ferrite core. Mine doesn't.
 
EDIT: so here is what people can do if they think i'm nuts. Try an ODAC with and without a ferrite bead. If you don't have a spare cable..skip it. Don't notice any difference? Then use whatever cable looks nicer. I would probably fail the test with my Q701 or if using the Magni. I just know i'm glad I tried a "regular" USB cable.

 

[tomb]

The ODAC is USB-powered.  Anyone who states that the cable doesn't make a difference under that scenario is misguided.  Why the heck do some USB cables come shielded (the standard) but others do not (keyboard, mice)?  Further, why do some USB cables come with chokes*?  Think a run-of-the-mill cable manufacturer - having nothing to do with audiophile sensibilities - is going to make that kind of investment/product if it has no effect?
 
 
* I prefer that term than ferrite "bead."   A ferrite bead is a small SMD part on the PCB, IMHO.

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

The ODAC is USB-powered.  Anyone who states that the cable doesn't make a difference under that scenario is misguided.  Why the heck do some USB cables come shielded (the standard) but others do not (keyboard, mice)?  Further, why do some USB cables come with chokes*?  Think a run-of-the-mill cable manufacturer - having nothing to do with audiophile sensibilities - is going to make that kind of investment/product if it has no effect?
 
 
* I prefer that term than ferrite "bead."   A ferrite bead is a small SMD part on the PCB, IMHO.

 
Any electrical cable (shielded, braided, beaded, or otherwise) may be subject to EMI and RFI. Over a USB connection, however, treble roll-off, improved soundstage, etc., are not due to different cables. Claims to the contrary are false and contradict fundamental principles of USB audio, rhetorical questions aside.

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satellite_6 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
 
 

Scuttle
Reading the docs from USB org etc, a badly implemented ferrite bead CAN result in worse sound. It doesn't HAVE to, but it's not moronic to suspect that, when there is a problem associated with a cable, that it is associated with the bead. If you think otherwise, explain why referring to the doc at usb.org.

 
 
Well without proof I suggest you stop making absurd assumptions. 

 
Ok: I get that you think that you are a lot smarter than you actually are. But
 
1. usb.org, the site of the usb standards body, says that signal deformation is possible with a poor cable; if you disagree with these people - who are actual engineers who have tested - then you need to say why
 
2. Idiots of a certain kind all over the Internet think that DAC transfer is just like transfer to a data pen. This is because they are too stupid to RTFM and understand that different protocols are used.
 
3. If you were smart enough to look at the site of the ODAC's designer, which unfortunately I can't link to, he gives a good explanation of signal loss in cables carrying digital information in his discussion on jitter
 
Now, what is NOT true is that there are audiophile cables worth paying lots of money for. But broken cables, that can cause signal loss - yes.

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

 
Any electrical cable (shielded, braided, beaded, or otherwise) may be subject to EMI and RFI. Over a USB connection, however, treble roll-off, improved soundstage, etc., are not due to different cables. Claims to the contrary are false and contradict fundamental principles of USB audio, rhetorical questions aside.

 
Yep. The effects of bad usb cables are limited, as far as I can see, to noise and jitter. At least unless you postulate a DAC that is using an algorithm to replace missing bits and that algorithm is biased a certain way, which could happen theoretically, but there is no evidence for.

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

If it's not possible I can't be wrong. 

 

 
Unless, of course, you are stupid enough not to know what is and is not impossible. Which indeed is the case when you say that a poor cable implementation can't make ANY difference to sound quality. Hint: google the ODAC designer's name and "jitter"...

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

 
 
EDIT 2: I just bypassed my USB hub (powered) and went directly to my computer. I switched between a 1' USB cable with ferrite core and a 1' USB cable with. It's stupid easy to tell the difference.  This was with the DJ100 and Headroom Micro Amp and ODAC. Similar results with HD-650. I highly doubt there can be an audible difference between USB cables even without the ferrite core (I know the whole 1s and 0s thing).
 
Hey, maybe it's the gold plating degrading the sound!!!

Only kidding...
 
I think this has to be the most bizarre thing I've encountered in years.

 
Why not just record the output of the DAC and post two different files, without saying which is which?
 
And contact the DAC manufacturer?

 

[tomb]

Quote:

 
Any electrical cable (shielded, braided, beaded, or otherwise) may be subject to EMI and RFI. Over a USB connection, however, treble roll-off, improved soundstage, etc., are not due to different cables. Claims to the contrary are false and contradict fundamental principles of USB audio, rhetorical questions aside.

Read my post a little more closely next time.  The ODAC is USB-powered.  Where do you think the analog power output comes from?  That makes the analog signal potentially subject to everything that happens in that cable.
 
I'm getting tired of repeating that in this thread.

 
Seen any posts about people stating that a high-quality powered-USB hub makes a difference, too?  Gee, I wonder why that would be ...

 

[Kirnupiima]

Speaking of bad power, has anyone else had problems with Odac just going mute about once a day? It still shows up in windows sound devices but for example cannot play the test sample. I have tried switching USB ports and the cable. It needs to be plugged out and back in to work again.

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

Read my post a little more closely next time.  The ODAC is USB-powered.  Where do you think the analog power output comes from?  That makes the analog signal potentially subject to everything that happens in that cable.
 

 
 
Potentially, yes. If you look at the Nameless One's website there is some very interesting discussion of the power supply:
 
- Tweaking it was a major issue in getting the full performance of the chipset out of the DAC
 
- The Nameless One found that that power supply filtering past certain levels increased jitter - so he stopped short of maximum filtering, which should reasonably men that the ODAC is more vulnerable to bad USB cables than less optimized designs
 
- The ODAC uses split digital and analog power supplies each with their own filtering and regulation. The analog chain has additional filtering and the critical reference voltages, and negative supply for the DAC chip, are further optimized.
 
..Obviously, he wouldn't gone to this much trouble if this was not a big issue.

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

Speaking of bad power, has anyone else had problems with Odac just going mute about once a day? It still shows up in windows sound devices but for example cannot play the test sample. I have tried switching USB ports and the cable. It needs to be plugged out and back in to work again.

 
Speaking as a programmer, this sounds like a Windows problem. Windows just does weird stuff. The idea that it can be used for critical applications terrifies every programmer I know...