Bowers and Wilkins PX8 Wireless Discussion
Feb 18, 2024 at 5:57 PM Post #5,056 of 5,134
My experience with aptX adaptive on both the Bathys and PX8 is that it is inferior in the midrange to wired and prioritizes high frequency. AptX HD has mid range that is closer to wired on the PX8 while adaptive has high frequency range that is closer to wired. Basically HD vs Adaptive is a trade off in the 420kbs version. Not sure if anyone is using the high bit rate version yet. If I had to chose between 420kbps adaptive and HD then I would pick HD every time. The high bit rate version of adaptive does look interesting, but I fear it will be difficult to use on crowded areas. At least LDAC 990 is somewhat unstable when you have lots of other BT units in the area.

In my experience the jump from 16 to 24 bit is the game changer and the increase in sampling rate is minor if your DAC has good reconstruction filters. One major advantage of 96khz is if you are using slow roll off filters as you start the roll off outside of the audible frequency range. Generally wouldn't worry much about high sample rate on BT headphones as the bit rate is so low that most, if not all, advantages of high sample rate is lost in the compression.
What he said. 🤣

Well said actually.

One thing I have noticed is that APTX Adaptive sounds a little more "dynamic" to me than APTX HD. Might be the increased high frequency energy that was addressed above. It presents to me as a slightly increased dynamic range.

I never feel as if I am missing anything with APTX HD though.

16-24 bit matters far more than 48 to 96 khz....
 
Feb 18, 2024 at 6:36 PM Post #5,057 of 5,134
Funny you say that I just spent a couple weeks with the Dali iO-12 and I think I’ve come to the same conclusion. Yeah it’s technically better yes the soundstage is bigger yes it is more detailed but I’m not sure I enjoyed it more than the PX8 and certainly not for double the price

13 days ago, the day you receiving the iO-12, you writing this in the iO-12 thread:

5. You guys know I am a Px8 fanboy and I have to say [the iO-12] absolutely sound better. By a mile. There’s enough bass for me to be incredibly happy with it But at the same time yeah the clarity and soundstage is on a different level.

Only 8 days after you deciding putting the Dali iO-12 for sale here in head-fi (and selling 2 days later for $899 USD) and saying this:

"I love these. They are far and away the best sounding ANC cans I’ve ever had, but I just can’t in this economy justify 1300 for them."
 
Last edited:
Feb 18, 2024 at 6:38 PM Post #5,058 of 5,134
13 days ago, the day you receiving the iO-12, you writing this in the iO-12 thread:



Only 8 days after you deciding putting the Dali iO-12 for sale here in head-fi (and selling 2 days later for $899 USD) and saying this:

"I love these. They are far and away the best sounding ANC cans I’ve ever had, but I just can’t in this economy justify 1300 for them."
They sound much better. I won’t deny it but at the same time they are less fun the longer I listened to them the more I realize they were just not as fun as the PX8 and I’m just gonna stick with that.

Both things can be true. The iO-12 can be a more detailed headphone with a larger soundstage and I can be bored by that headphones sound.

The longer I’m in this game the more I realize that I want my headphones to be fun sounding and I don’t want to critically analyze every piece of music I’m listening to so… Despite being technically better I don’t like them as much
 
Feb 18, 2024 at 7:47 PM Post #5,059 of 5,134
In my experience the jump from 16 to 24 bit is the game changer
Honestly, even though I'm disappointed with not having the capability and ceiling of the highest bit rate, I seriously question my own aptitude regarding differentiating this these days. I stopped at sometimes being able to notice the difference between 320kbps vs lossless. I'm just not sure how much I'd really appreciate the difference between 16 and 24 bits. Maybe that's because most of my music listening these days with dad and husband responsibilities is Tidal and Amazon music in the car and doing errands with my MW07's. I rarely have the opportunity and even desire to use my full sized headphones and DAC....

I'm just hoping the PX8's, with it's convenience and sound signature, will bring me back to appreciating the subtle nuances that brought me to this hobby and this site, but right now I just want something that will make me not forget to put them on my noggin. As a temporary and much needed escape from reality. If that makes any sense.
 
Feb 18, 2024 at 8:15 PM Post #5,060 of 5,134
Honestly, even though I'm disappointed with not having the capability and ceiling of the highest bit rate, I seriously question my own aptitude regarding differentiating this these days. I stopped at sometimes being able to notice the difference between 320kbps vs lossless. I'm just not sure how much I'd really appreciate the difference between 16 and 24 bits. Maybe that's because most of my music listening these days with dad and husband responsibilities is Tidal and Amazon music in the car and doing errands with my MW07's. I rarely have the opportunity and even desire to use my full sized headphones and DAC....

I'm just hoping the PX8's, with it's convenience and sound signature, will bring me back to appreciating the subtle nuances that brought me to this hobby and this site, but right now I just want something that will make me not forget to put them on my noggin. As a temporary and much needed escape from reality. If that makes any sense.

My advice is this: forget about bitrate differences or 16 vs 24 bits differences. A well-mastered 128 kbps file will sounding very much better with a BT headphone than the best hi-res file from a poor master with a wired headphone. A lot of exaggeration in this forums about all this differences, some of this aren't audible for the human ear, but are present in measurements that, at the end, don't meaning much for majority of people, even people with good discerning ears.

The good thing about the px8 is that the basic 2-band equaliser is actually very effective. When I owning the px8, my preference is for -2/-3 bass and +2 treble, but maybe you will finding the factory sound just right for you with your own device and the codec/s you have available.
 
Feb 18, 2024 at 11:03 PM Post #5,061 of 5,134
My advice is this: forget about bitrate differences or 16 vs 24 bits differences. A well-mastered 128 kbps file will sounding very much better with a BT headphone than the best hi-res file from a poor master with a wired headphone. A lot of exaggeration in this forums about all this differences, some of this aren't audible for the human ear, but are present in measurements that, at the end, don't meaning much for majority of people, even people with good discerning ears.

The good thing about the px8 is that the basic 2-band equaliser is actually very effective. When I owning the px8, my preference is for -2/-3 bass and +2 treble, but maybe you will finding the factory sound just right for you with your own device and the codec/s you have available.

I hear you loud and clear...

I've been reading about this -2 bass, +2 treble suggestion. Can't wait to try. Happy to hear I can confidently mess with the equalizer to my liking.
 
Feb 18, 2024 at 11:08 PM Post #5,062 of 5,134
My PX8's are on the way and I'm getting more and more psyched as I'm reading through this thread. Wish there were milestone popular/liked review page indicators.

Question.

At this point, how does your PX8 compare to your wired favorites in terms of SQ and comfort especially for extended use? Really curious how they compare to my Muze 99 Classics and even Hifiman Anandas...
I disagree with some of the other posts who say wired vs. Px8 make no difference. My main wired desktop headphone is the Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Noire (I pre-ordered at launch and probably paid around the same as I paid for my Px8). I find the Aeon 2 more comfortable (may be the bigger ear cups), is clearer, more controlled and has better bass and a wider soundstage (Px8 sounds a bit too intimate for my liking). I have my Noires EQ'd using the PEQ on my RME ADI-2 DAC vs Px8 via aptX HD so it is not really a fair comparison. Part of it may be that I have never really been able to get a sound I liked (the tuning is not my personal favorite) but it also never really sounds natural to me (feels like I am listening to a set of speakers where the speakers dont really disappear for me if that makes any sense). This is all subjective and my personal preference and there may be others who prefer the B&W tuning. However, I enjoy my Px8 when I want to be wireless (usually use them in bed before falling asleep) and they ticked most boxes for me in terms of being, in my opinion, a fantastic all around package for features that I personally look for in bluetooth headphones (good enough sound with built in EQ, acceptable ANC, physical buttons, transparency mode, multi point, compact size). Personally, I never expected the Px8 to replace the wired headphones or IEMs that I still use regularly but am still happy with the Px8 (and also the Px7 S2) for their convenience and features.
Uh oh, will I have codec issues with my pixel 8 pro?
I use my Px8 almost exclusively with a Pixel 7 Pro. I do have an aptX adaptive capable phone (LG V60) that I don't use as much anymore but never felt like I was missing anything using them with my Pixel 7 Pro vs my LG V60. I wouldn't worry too much about codecs if you have the Pixel 8 Pro. Others may disagree but, in my opinion, When it comes to Bluetooth headphones and TWS, tuning (that matches your personal preference) and features are generally more important than codec compatibility.
 
Feb 19, 2024 at 1:11 AM Post #5,063 of 5,134
I disagree with some of the other posts who say wired vs. Px8 make no difference. My main wired desktop headphone is the Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Noire (I pre-ordered at launch and probably paid around the same as I paid for my Px8). I find the Aeon 2 more comfortable (may be the bigger ear cups), is clearer, more controlled and has better bass and a wider soundstage (Px8 sounds a bit too intimate for my liking). I have my Noires EQ'd using the PEQ on my RME ADI-2 DAC vs Px8 via aptX HD so it is not really a fair comparison. Part of it may be that I have never really been able to get a sound I liked (the tuning is not my personal favorite) but it also never really sounds natural to me (feels like I am listening to a set of speakers where the speakers dont really disappear for me if that makes any sense). This is all subjective and my personal preference and there may be others who prefer the B&W tuning. However, I enjoy my Px8 when I want to be wireless (usually use them in bed before falling asleep) and they ticked most boxes for me in terms of being, in my opinion, a fantastic all around package for features that I personally look for in bluetooth headphones (good enough sound with built in EQ, acceptable ANC, physical buttons, transparency mode, multi point, compact size). Personally, I never expected the Px8 to replace the wired headphones or IEMs that I still use regularly but am still happy with the Px8 (and also the Px7 S2) for their convenience and features.

I use my Px8 almost exclusively with a Pixel 7 Pro. I do have an aptX adaptive capable phone (LG V60) that I don't use as much anymore but never felt like I was missing anything using them with my Pixel 7 Pro vs my LG V60. I wouldn't worry too much about codecs if you have the Pixel 8 Pro. Others may disagree but, in my opinion, When it comes to Bluetooth headphones and TWS, tuning (that matches your personal preference) and features are generally more important than codec compatibility.
I appreciate you level setting my expectations. The reason I asked that question is to try to gauge if the gap has gotten closer for some with the PX8. And it seems like it has based on the responses. What I especially appreciated reading is how much enjoyment others are getting with having the convenience of wireless and apparently the successful tuning from B&W engineers of their sound signature. It's basically exactly what you're saying in terms of ticking most of the boxes, but with a pleasant surprise that you're not necessarily sacrificing too much. On the contrary, it appears they bring something new to the table in terms of overall enjoyment for some.

Glad you're not seeing any red flags with your pixel 7 pro not having the aptx adaptive codec. I prefer pixel phones so it would suck to even consider switching...
 
Feb 19, 2024 at 12:43 PM Post #5,064 of 5,134
My PX8's are on the way and I'm getting more and more psyched as I'm reading through this thread. Wish there were milestone popular/liked review page indicators.

Question.

At this point, how does your PX8 compare to your wired favorites in terms of SQ and comfort especially for extended use? Really curious how they compare to my Muze 99 Classics and even Hifiman Anandas...
The PX8 is not close to high-end closed backs in technical ability, detail, soundstage etc. It is important to remember context when buying a ANC headphone, it is for enjoying music on the go or when moving around.

The PX8 is a nice overall package with a somewhat divisive sound signature as they are not tuned for neutral or Harman curve (Harman curve is a preference curve, not neutral). Some will like it some will not. Typically one should listen to the PX8 for at least 8-10 hours to get used to the sound and then decide if one likes them or not. Personally I enjoy them a lot in the office, when on the go etc. but I rarely use them at home. I mostly listen to them over aptX HD, which I find to be the optimal BT codec for these.
 
Feb 19, 2024 at 12:57 PM Post #5,065 of 5,134
The PX8 is not close to high-end closed backs in technical ability, detail, soundstage etc. It is important to remember context when buying a ANC headphone, it is for enjoying music on the go or when moving around.

The PX8 is a nice overall package with a somewhat divisive sound signature as they are not tuned for neutral or Harman curve (Harman curve is a preference curve, not neutral). Some will like it some will not. Typically one should listen to the PX8 for at least 8-10 hours to get used to the sound and then decide if one likes them or not. Personally I enjoy them a lot in the office, when on the go etc. but I rarely use them at home. I mostly listen to them over aptX HD, which I find to be the optimal BT codec for these.
This is so well said. I completely agree.

I didn't like their sound signature and returned them. The build quality and tech was all good and fine. The 2 band eq is not enough to correct the sound deficiencies adequately. But I also do not prefer to EQ. If it's deficient out of the box it's deficient.... but I'm a purist.

Any current BT ANC cans cannot compare to wired headphones or an external 24/192 hi resolution DAC. But current BT ANC headphones can and do sound more accurate and better than the PX8.

Montblanc MB01 and B&O H95 are two I own and sound more accurate and neutral than the PX8. Another would be the Mark Levinson 5909, which I have not heard. I plan to explore these and the Master & Dynamic MW75. I own the MW65 and they are good but a bit bright and the ANC is marginal.

Do not expect the PX8 to be audiophile nor accurate. They are an otherwise great package but I don't like their sound.

I own many other headphones. One pair that sounds great, provide great passive isolation and are wired are Audeze EL8. They are planar dynamic closed backs. They sound amazing and put the PX8 to shame soundwise. But they are wired and not as portable.
 
Last edited:
Feb 23, 2024 at 2:49 PM Post #5,068 of 5,134
Yeah so I confirmed my own suspected thoughts today. Tried the PX8’s directly compared with the Dali iO-12’s and I like the PX8’s better.

Sure the Dali are absolutely more detailed. They have a wider soundstage. They are technically more proficient.

I just plain like the sound of the PX8 better. it is more pleasing to my ears. Furthermore and this is a weird observation but I think I’d like the more intimate soundstage better. I prefer to be in front of me than to have a wider soundstage. I know it’s sacrilegious but it’s what I prefer
 
Feb 23, 2024 at 8:00 PM Post #5,069 of 5,134
Yeah so I confirmed my own suspected thoughts today. Tried the PX8’s directly compared with the Dali iO-12’s and I like the PX8’s better.

Sure the Dali are absolutely more detailed. They have a wider soundstage. They are technically more proficient.

I just plain like the sound of the PX8 better. it is more pleasing to my ears. Furthermore and this is a weird observation but I think I’d like the more intimate soundstage better. I prefer to be in front of me than to have a wider soundstage. I know it’s sacrilegious but it’s what I prefer
Enjoy what you enjoy! No apologies required. That is why there are so many darned good brands and models of headphones out there. Better yet, own both!
 
Feb 24, 2024 at 5:11 PM Post #5,070 of 5,134
Hello

Have other people had a white noise problem (when turning the head witch ANC On) ?

thx

I remember having something similar in the first few weeks.

I think the earpads need to break-in, conform to your face/head shape, then the seal won't be broken when turning the head and you won't perceive that white noise.

Try pressing on the lower part of the earcup when turning the head, see if eliminates the problem.

Don't think that is a reason for returning them. At least not now. Use them for a month or two, see if the issue goes away. Mine seal much better after 10 months of use.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top