[op16]

So yea, I had previously used my sennheiser hd 202 phones for 1-2 years without problems, I get hearing fatigue fairly easily, even with low volumes, so I tough't that open backed headphones would be more delicate for my ears.
 
I bought sennheiser hd 600 + fiio e17 combo. I listened at the same volumes as usually (kinda low, because my ears cant handle high volumes), but my ears started to hurt very soon, so I take a break and try again. Next thing I notice, i feel a little almost like burning sensation deep inside my both ears (not a usual sensation of listening fatigue for me), so I stop listening completely and leave it like that.
 
Next morning, I notice that my tinnitus that I have had before for ages, is now clearly worse. I'm writing this three days later, and tinnitus is still at the same level, and I can feel a little pressure deep inside my both ears, at the same place where i felt burning.
 
Obviously this makes me wonder, what the hell is so different in sennheiser hd 600 that it causes this in day one? All sounds felt normal, but the burning sensation and ear pain was vastly different of anything I have experienced before. Could it be  because those phones completely surround my ears? Maybe they send stronger vibrations or something, surely they are in different league than my old sennheiser 202.
 
 
 
 
Sure, I might need to go see a doctor(?), but I also need to buy some new headphones, the kind that wont hopefully rape my ears. I'm no headphone expert, so do you guys have any suggestions?

 

[wink]

Top line headphones are so clear that you can very easily turn up the volume too high and damage your hearing because they don't distort at high volumes.
 
The best practice with open headphones is to adjust the volume to a little lower than you want, Snap your fingers and listen for the volume of the snap.
 
If you can hear your fingers snapping easily, leave the volume of the headphones at that level. If not, turn the volume down to where you can hear the snap easily.
 
Usually, after about an hour or two, you may even find yourself turning the volume down.

 

[kramer5150]

You need to try and figure out what kinds of things your ears are sensitive to.  It may not be limited to sonic attributes only.  So things like earpad pressure and geometry are worth taking into consideration.  The senn 580/600/650 is no lightweight in terms of clamp pressure, depending on the size of your head.  Sonically, when I first got my 580 I too had tinnitus.  For me it was the relaxed nature of their smooth upper mids, combined with their high frequency extension that triggered mine.  That combined with volume levels that I thought were lower than they actually were.  it resulted in tinnitus ringing that would not go away.  The sound was exactly like clinching your teeth really hard.
 
My solution was to quit headphone listening at any volume higher than channel imbalance on my amps.  So it was extreme, whisper quiet volumes... barely louder than the fishtank I had across the room.  That and I used foam earplugs whenever possible outdoors.  Eventually my ears got accustomed to the quiet volume levels, and today that's how I prefer to listen to my tunes.  I also found that caffeine triggers my tinnitus, so I drink decaff coffee & sodas in very limited quantities.

 

[DaemonSire]

You could try tuned earplugs like the V-Moda Faders.  I've heard people putting them on underneath headphones.  $20.
 
Not sure if this would be much different than simply turning the volume down but may be something to consider.  And if you have sensitive hearing, would be handy thing to have on hand for going out in public anyways (movies, concerts, etc.)
 
http://v-moda.com/faders-vip/

 

[Lorspeaker]

is your hd600 brand new...or used? 
u need to wash/detox/sun those pads?

 

[wphantom]

sorry to hear that :S what you need is good isolation, buying open was the worst mistake, you need some good iems, like the shure 215 or the phillips fidelio s2, or if you can afford it the shure 846 or the akg k3003

 

[ubs28]

  Top line headphones are so clear that you can very easily turn up the volume too high and damage your hearing because they don't distort at high volumes.
 
The best practice with open headphones is to adjust the volume to a little lower than you want, Snap your fingers and listen for the volume of the snap.
 
If you can hear your fingers snapping easily, leave the volume of the headphones at that level. If not, turn the volume down to where you can hear the snap easily.
 
Usually, after about an hour or two, you may even find yourself turning the volume down.

I never have problems with the Shure SE535 or the Shure SE846. With the Shure SRH 1840 if I listen 5 hours straight, I'll get ringing ears. I think it's due to the extended treble of the Shure SRH1840 which causes ear fatigue much easier.
 
The  Sennheiser hd 202 also has alot less treble than the Sennheiser HD600 which could explain why he has trouble with the HD600.

 

[op16]

Thanks all, so earbuds are for sensitive ears? I thought it would be the opposite...
 
Anyone has any more recommendations?

 

[fiascogarcia]

  Thanks all, so earbuds are for sensitive ears? I thought it would be the opposite...
 
Anyone has any more recommendations?

I suffer tinnitus also, and use both the HD600's and iems.  I've found  that the thing with iems is that getting a good seal and the corresponding isolation you get allows you to enjoy the music at lower volumes, thus not harming your ears.  Otherwise, either iem's or over ear headphones can be harmful.  Before you go searching for iems, I would first make that doctor's visit. Maybe the phones exacerbated something like a sinus infection.  I've never had the kind of pain you describe, only the constant low level buzzing that I've now grown accustomed to.  Actual physical pain is another matter entirely.  Good luck, and here's hoping you recover quickly!!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Obviously this makes me wonder, what the hell is so different in sennheiser hd 600 that it causes this in day one? All sounds felt normal, but the burning sensation and ear pain was vastly different of anything I have experienced before. Could it be  because those phones completely surround my ears? Maybe they send stronger vibrations or something, surely they are in different league than my old sennheiser 202.
 
 
Sure, I might need to go see a doctor(?), but I also need to buy some new headphones, the kind that wont hopefully rape my ears. I'm no headphone expert, so do you guys have any suggestions?

 
In addition to what wink posted, if you have a powerful enough amp driving an efficient headphone without getting the THD too high, you can easily assume you aren't listening that loud. With the HD600, once I didn't hear my brother calling from the door, and he got into the guest room I was staying in and tapped my shoulder, and only then did I know that he was home. He told me to put the HD600 down on the table, and sure enough I could use it as a desktop speaker. I was judging loudness through distortion, and along with its efficiency, the Meier Cantate.2 headphone amp was crystal clear and I have never heard it distort (or any headphone distort from it running out of steam driving it). Kind of like how I listened to my Wharfedale Pacific Pi10 speakers with the NAD 304 amp's volume knob at 11:00 not realizing my speakers can be heard from beyond the wall already, and our house over here is made of concrete (with a 16ft deep foundation) with a stone and mortar wall around it, unlike my brother's cheap-ass American apartment with a thin drywall I can punch through.* 
 
So really it wasn't so much that the HD600 "raped" your ears, but more like you kept downing the drinks that it was buying you because you liked what he was saying, and when sufficiently intoxicated your inhibitions went to hell and instead of balking and choking at the sight of the Mandingo-esque appendage or at least stopping when it hurt, you perceived it as pleasure that you were getting torn apart, like how a porn star would say so when doing Mandingo. You then wake up the next morning wondering how long before Sasha Grey got used to 13in black guy schlongs, or if she ever did.**
 
If anything, the open headphone design can mean that the noise floor is still too high so consider an IEM that doesn't need a too deep insertion of the tips but isolates really well (like a custom IEM), that way you can listen at much lower volumes. In the meantime, yes, see a doctor.


*I cracked the wall when I casually hit it right after I stubbed my bare toe on his fridge - I mean for chrissakes they have a Karate class that demolishes houses for less than the cost of a construction crew with heavy equipment. If I punched it because I was pissed I'm sure my fist would have gone through that.
**Rabid feminists reading this will interpret that paragraph as, "you partriarchal mysogynist prick! stop blaming the victim!" 

 

[NGlignum]

In addition to what wink posted, if you have a powerful enough amp driving an efficient headphone without getting the THD too high, you can easily assume you aren't listening that loud. With the HD600, once I didn't hear my brother calling from the door, and he got into the guest room I was staying in and tapped my shoulder, and only then did I know that he was home. He told me to put the HD600 down on the table, and sure enough I could use it as a desktop speaker. I was judging loudness through distortion, and along with its efficiency, the Meier Cantate.2 headphone amp was crystal clear and I have never heard it distort (or any headphone distort from it running out of steam driving it). Kind of like how I listened to my Wharfedale Pacific Pi10 speakers with the NAD 304 amp's volume knob at 11:00 not realizing my speakers can be heard from beyond the wall already, and our house over here is made of concrete (with a 16ft deep foundation) with a stone and mortar wall around it, unlike my brother's cheap-ass American apartment with a thin drywall I can punch through.* 

So really it wasn't so much that the HD600 "raped" your ears, but more like you kept downing the drinks that it was buying you because you liked what he was saying, and when sufficiently intoxicated your inhibitions went to hell and instead of balking and choking at the sight of the Mandingo-esque appendage or at least stopping when it hurt, you perceived it as pleasure that you were getting torn apart, like how a porn star would say so when doing Mandingo. You then wake up the next morning wondering how long before Sasha Grey got used to 13in black guy schlongs, or if she ever did.**

If anything, the open headphone design can mean that the noise floor is still too high so consider an IEM that doesn't need a too deep insertion of the tips but isolates really well (like a custom IEM), that way you can listen at much lower volumes. In the meantime, yes, see a doctor.


*I cracked the wall when I casually hit it right after I stubbed my bare toe on his fridge - I mean for chrissakes they have a Karate class that demolishes houses for less than the cost of a construction crew with heavy equipment. If I punched it because I was pissed I'm sure my fist would have gone through that.
**Rabid feminists reading this will interpret that paragraph as, "you partriarchal mysogynist prick! stop blaming the victim!" 

I was nodding my head in agreement with everything. Until you mentioned Sasha Grey and Mandingos. I didn't know what to think, but I can agree anyways. I have the Shure215 iems and I can comfortably say that they are great for noisy environments. I use them outside when taking the bus or subway, and NYC can get pretty noisy at times, but even at low volumes, I can hear the music with clarity and not hear the outside world so much. I would say about 60% vol on an ipod would be enough to hear loud trucks passing by. But after that, it's mostly just music and cars going silently. I'm really careful when walkin outside, really, I didn't think iems could do something like this. If you can go for better iems above the 215, go for it. But I don't the 325s are worth it, they sound very similar to the 215s, perhaps not worth the extra money, but above that, you can hear a very clear difference.
Good luck with healing your ears. Let us know how you manage the sensitivity.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I was nodding my head in agreement with everything. Until you mentioned Sasha Grey and Mandingos. I didn't know what to think, but I can agree anyways.

 
Anyone familiar with the details of her (and others') performances with such guys versus the reality and impracticality of Mandingo for the average woman would get why I used that as a figurative example to clear up the use of the term "rape" with the HD600 causing tinnitus. The average woman without getting intoxicated would just consider that a novelty, but with some reservation about whether it's physically possible. Intoxicated, and assuming you put that appendage on say Bradley Cooper, I would not be surprised if a good number of the average women would throw out all inhibitions and try their best to make that physically possible, and possibly enter a more masochistic stance in the process. Then next morning they're chafing. Kind of like enjoying undistorted sound through an efficient headphone and powerful amp that together remain composed at well beyond 96db  too much (on top of already having tinnitus), then realizing later it caused some damage.  At risk of rabid fminists (who I assume aren't in here) who can quote waaaaaay out of context, if you initiated it and enjoyed, you can't call it "rape." If anything, that will weaken its horrible meaning as opposed to just inflating what horrible thing (of one's own doing) that happened.

 

[op16]

It has been a while now, and it actually took like two months for my ears to get gradually better, now tinnitus is at normal levels, but the great thing is that I can listen music with my Sennheiser HD202 that I use daily without any problems, ears do tend to get sensitive after 30+ min playing music, but without playing music all the time, I can wear them 4+ hours, without problems.
 
The funny thing is, I just tried Sennheiser HD600 very VERY carefully again, for like one minute, with super low volume, and it feels like it changed my ear pressure just from that, and my ears started to feel weird and 'full' again, I can't for the life of me understand how it does that, especially since I can use hd202 with relatively loud, so it can't be just the sound volume, but it's clear that they are not the headphones for me.
 
I need to buy new pair of headphones soon, so what should I get between 202 'perfectly fine' and 600 'ear destruction', I'm usually just casually listening Youtube quality with Fiio E17, so I don't really need HD600 quality anyway

 

[kramer5150]

Cool deal!!  Yeah your hearing can recover, although my understanding is the older we get the more permanent the damage can remain.  Did you ever figure out what it was that was causing it?  Was it frequency related, distortion / THD related, or something in the realm of time delay characteristics and CSD plot resonances?  Or was it just loud volumes, like it was in the case of my tinnitus from the HD580?
 
Since we are talking about a medical condition, I would just stick with that which you know works... the HD202 and keep the volumes in check.
 
All the Senn HD2xx cans have a very similar FR, it would not surprise me if they all used the same driver from the PX100II... this is the really great sounding driver at the heart of the SennGrado mod.  I have never heard it, but the PX205II and that DEEEEP bass extension looks like a can I might want to try.  FWIW, for long term listening, relaxing, warm presentation and low volumes my SennGrado is my preferred can.
 

 

[MrPanda]

Speaking of medical conditions, I've seen a couple articles recently on links between high blood pressure and tinnitus symptoms.
There's one on WebMD.