[retic3nt]

do comply tips work well with the er6i and the im716?

 

[Tuarreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro No, not at all. Many people prefer added enhancements and coloration. Just look at the multi million dollar car subwoofer market. It's about as far from realistic sound as you could get but many people love it.

I'm new in the head-fi world (2 weeks), but I've been a longtime audiophile! I read very intelligent and thorough reviews here at Head-fi and even though I would agree that there are some who enjoy colorations in phones, they seem to be in the minority. Most that contribute in the forums seem to be searching for the best combination of quality and value. Most are eagerly anticipating the latest and the greatest advancements of the products we love. I mean, why would anyone care what others think of any given equipment, if it only comes down to favorite colorations? Why would people spend thousands of dollars on equipment if not in pursuit of the most accurate reproduction of live music in the form of a headphone or IEMs or such?

I guess, I really can't answer for others. I just know that when I'm comparing two good products and if I can only afford one, I would go for the must accurate based on personal evaluation or on the evaluations of others that I respect and that I know have the same common priorities.

 

[GreatDane]

To be honest, sometimes I like coloration and other times I like to hear the music as it was meant to be...depending on my mood,type of music and whether I'm listening in my vehicle, speakers at home or HP/IEM.

I have noticed that in the past year or so I've toned down the bass in my truck system( 2 x10" w/ 380 W) after having gotten used to how my HP sound...I've decreased my music listening through my HT system more and more as I've bought better HP.

But hey, I do coloration right!

Long live the BIG BOTTOM!

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuarreg Etys are perfect? Ok, consider this. In the world of technology, products either progress or they fall behind. Nothing stays the same. As great as the Etys are, they will not be around in one, two or five years from now if they can't improve on their products. Sorry, it's a fact of product life. Meanwhile, enjoy 'em!!! Tuarreg

you're talking apples and oranges here. in "the world of technology" (i assume you are talking computers, home theater, video games, etc.), most products are dated at best 6 months after debut. but the ety er4 series has been going strong for 15 years. in technology terms, that's an eternity. looking at their track record i see no indication they are falling behind. in fact even in the face of multiple iems and multi-armiture iems being released by shure, ue, etc., the er4 is still going strong, as evidenced by their continued populartiy here.

 

[Tuarreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter you're talking apples and oranges here. in "the world of technology" (i assume you are talking computers, home theater, video games, etc.), most products are dated at best 6 months after debut. but the ety er4 series has been going strong for 15 years. in technology terms, that's an eternity. looking at their track record i see no indication they are falling behind. in fact even in the face of multiple iems and multi-armiture iems being released by shure, ue, etc., the er4 is still going strong, as evidenced by their continued populartiy here.

There's no question the er4s have enjoyed a long life, nor do I question that they are still popular. But I stand by my statement that with the state-of-the art advancing so rapidly, that unless the Etys get an update within the next 6 months, they will drift even further back from the current crop of top IEMs and be remembered "fondly" as yesterday's best if not already.

Tuarreg

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuarreg There's no question the er4s have enjoyed a long life, nor do I question that they are still popular. But I stand by my statement that with the state-of-the art advancing so rapidly, that unless the Etys get an update within the next 6 months, they will drift even further back from the current crop of top IEMs and be remembered "fondly" as yesterday's best if not already. Tuarreg

they may, but i think the chances are slim. i've tried a number of the newer multi-armiture iems, and still prefer the ety er4. i think there are quite a few here who also feel the same way. i mean, what would you suggest they do? bolt fake diamonds to them to give them bling? a fancy new case? add another driver? the er4 is fine the way it is. and you ignore the er6i, which was a play by ety to update their iems for the ipod crowd.

i know you are new to headphones, so i'll fill you in on our dirty little secret: we don't give a rat's ass how "state of the art" our cans are. the most sought after headphones here haven't been produced in years, such as the grado hp series. the top priority is sound quality, and just because something isn't new doesn't mean you throw it on the trash heap.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

There's no question the er4s have enjoyed a long life, nor do I question that they are still popular. But I stand by my statement that with the state-of-the art advancing so rapidly, that unless the Etys get an update within the next 6 months, they will drift even further back from the current crop of top IEMs and be remembered "fondly" as yesterday's best if not already. Tuarreg

But how would that even be possible? They just sound too damn good.

 

[Tuarreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter they may, but i think the chances are slim. i've tried a number of the newer multi-armiture iems, and still prefer the ety er4. i think there are quite a few here who also feel the same way. i mean, what would you suggest they do? bolt fake diamonds to them to give them bling? a fancy new case? add another driver? the er4 is fine the way it is. and you ignore the er6i, which was a play by ety to update their iems for the ipod crowd. i know you are new to headphones, so i'll fill you in on our dirty little secret: we don't give a rat's ass how "state of the art" our cans are. the most sought after headphones here haven't been produced in years, such as the grado hp series. the top priority is sound quality, and just because something isn't new doesn't mean you throw it on the trash heap.

I totally agree. State-of-the-art means nothing if the sound quality is inferior. Not sure how you equate from me appreciating the latest technology to me not appreciating quality sound. Just because I'm new to Head-fi does not mean I don't know good sound, no? (I still use my Linn Sondek turntable. )

From personal experience, I prefer these IEMs in the order of preference: Shure e500, Westone UM2, UE 5Pro, Ety 4RP, Shure e4c. I never heard the Shure 5C or any of the custom IEMs.

Good listening!

Tuarreg

 

[nakedtoes]

New techonology or new phones does mean they are better... Older phones like PS1, HP-1, K1000, ER4S still hold and have their unique strength

 

[bluebeard]

This kind of discussion falls under the old chestnut of hi-fi technology and how quickly current production models become out of date.

Frankly, the world of hi-fi technology has moved sparingly over the past century. Lasers and transistors were the last big breakthrough and they were 40 and 60 years ago. Don't forget that turntables (1889) and valves (1920s) still form the core of some hi-end sound systems. As for speakers...

In headphones we talk about balanced armatures being this revolution which enabled IEMs - wow must be some new minaturised technology! Uh, the patent on these puppies was filed in 1918 by Henry Egerton. The application of that particular technology in headphones is new, not the technology itself.

Personally, I have more faith in those companies that release new models sparingly eg Etymotic, Grado, Naim, Sugden, Mark Levinson than those who have an ever-changing lineup eg Shure, Sennheiser, Apple, Musical Fidelity etc. The first group seems to me to be focused on the production of a product according to engineering principles first (do it right the first time), whereas the second group seems to be driven by marketing principles (this year's model is different to last year's model (and therefore "better")). To my ears the second group makes sound, whereas the first group makes music...

Just my thoughts...

Giles

 

[Tuarreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebeard This kind of discussion falls under the old chestnut of hi-fi technology and how quickly current production models become out of date. Frankly, the world of hi-fi technology has moved sparingly over the past century. Lasers and transistors were the last big breakthrough and they were 40 and 60 years ago. Don't forget that turntables (1889) and valves (1920s) still form the core of some hi-end sound systems. As for speakers... In headphones we talk about balanced armatures being this revolution which enabled IEMs - wow must be some new minaturised technology! Uh, the patent on these puppies was filed in 1918 by Henry Egerton. The application of that particular technology in headphones is new, not the technology itself. Personally, I have more faith in those companies that release new models sparingly eg Etymotic, Grado, Naim, Sugden, Mark Levinson than those who have an ever-changing lineup eg Shure, Sennheiser, Apple, Musical Fidelity etc. The first group seems to me to be focused on the production of a product according to engineering principles first (do it right the first time), whereas the second group seems to be driven by marketing principles (this year's model is different to last year's model (and therefore "better")). To my ears the second group makes sound, whereas the first group makes music... Just my thoughts... Giles

I really don't think that the Etymotic ER4s would fall under the banner of being more musical. I find them to be analytical, yes, but the Shure E500 and the Westone UM2 are both more musical to my ears.

Perhaps Shure, Apple, Sennheiser do appreciate marketing. What's wrong with that? As long as they improve on their products, who cares? Of course they also bomb out every now and then. But it's not for the lack of trying.

In the case of the E500, some say they rival the UE 10 Pros at half the price. The Apple G5 is quite a bit better than the G3s at the same introduction price! You call it marketing, I call it engineering and listening to their customers.

In the end, you are not forced to buy anything new. So I doubt those companies would risk all the money it takes to design and manufacture new products just to tempt us to part with our hard earned money unless they thought the products represent a step forward in quality.

BTW, tube equipment and turntables today are NOT your father's tubes and phonographs. Current tube applications and current turntable design are leap years beyond their counterparts of yesteryear.

For your info, this is really not about old vs new... this all started when someone claimed that the ETY ER4s/p are essentially "perfect" and cannot be improved upon and have not been modified in the past 15 years. I found that statement hard to swallow... hence the chain of posts thereafter.

Consider this: Grado, Naim, Sugden, Mark Levinson. All of these superior companies have had many new products out in the past 15 years. Grado has had at least 10 headphones. Naim has had 15 amps. Sugden has had over 200 modifications and reiterations of their current A21 integrated amp. Levinson has had 44 new amps.

Tuarreg

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuarreg I really don't think that the Etymotic ER4s would fall under the banner of being more musical. I find them to be analytical, yes, but the Shure E500 and the Westone UM2 are both more musical to my ears.

Musicality means different things to different people. The Etymotics present the music as close to the way the artist or mastering engineer intended it to sound as possible. (Because the FR of the ER4 is probably very close to the monitors they used to make the song.) To me, this is very musical indeed.

The ER4 MicroPro IEMs were designed with one goal in mind: to replicate the acoustic response of the open ear. A tremendous amount of research went in to this and in my opinion the ER4 accomplishes its goal with aplomb. For what it was intended for, I can't really see how it can get any better than this. (Or at least, better enough to justify a new product.)

 

[russdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuarreg this all started when someone claimed that the ETY ER4s/p are essentially "perfect" and cannot be improved upon and have not been modified in the past 15 years. I found that statement hard to swallow... hence the chain of posts thereafter. Consider this: Grado, Naim, Sugden, Mark Levinson. All of these superior companies have had many new products out in the past 15 years. Grado has had at least 10 headphones. Naim has had 15 amps. Sugden has had over 200 modifications and reiterations of their current A21 integrated amp. Levinson has had 44 new amps.

In virtually any domain of manufactured goods, especially consumer goods, product evolution and replacement is normal and is to be expected. At the same time, in most such domains there are a few rare products that become classics or standards, and which do not change much or get replaced as rapidly as most. This happens in any domain: cars, or cookiing utensils, or musical instruments, or whatever.

There is "the rule" (normal product development and replacement cycles), and then there are the exceptions that prove the rule. Ety 4's are one of those special exceptions. There is no need to diss them with perjorative descriptors, and nothing will be gained by doing so. Ety's have had a huge impact on listening, and they will continue to do so. Whether you or any other given person happens to like them or not is a completely different issue.

 

[redshifter]

tuarreg,
again, i think you are talking apples and oranges, as others have pointed out. by your logic is ety er4s will become dated, simply because other, unrelated technology becomes dated. this is flawed logic. you acknowledge ety er4s has been going strong for 15 years, then ignore the fact because it doesn't match your supposition. something ain't neccesarily true just because you say so, which is the extent of your argument as far as i can see.

 

[Tuarreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter tuarreg, again, i think you are talking apples and oranges, as others have pointed out. by your logic is ety er4s will become dated, simply because other, unrelated technology becomes dated. this is flawed logic. you acknowledge ety er4s has been going strong for 15 years, then ignore the fact because it doesn't match your supposition. something ain't neccesarily true just because you say so, which is the extent of your argument as far as i can see.

I find the both the Shure E500 and the UM2 superior to the ER4s. Because of that, I find it hard to accept it when people say that the ER4s is perfect and cannot be improved upon. The whole technology vs classic arguement distracts from that original premise. Besides, why is not my "truth" as valid as yours? Why are your opinions any more valid than mine in terms of assessing the sound quality of the products we speak of? Isn't that what this forum is all about? Opinions differ. We state our points and leave it at that. No reason to say that opposing opinions are "invalid" or "untrue". Search the forums and you will find many who happen to agree with my assessment of the E500 vs the ER4s. Perhaps my line of reason is flawed. Be that as it may, I don't think my hearing suffers from the same fate.

Tuarreg