[csglinux]

Another apology for my mistake of using your work (the FR curve) without neither having your approval nor citing it.

Besides of that, your comment on er4xr... Though you meant the exact opposite of "intrinsically flawed" regarding the er4xr. But I would say that it is quite close to being "intrinsically flawed"-- it is obsolete. If we count from the original er4's (b, s, p), the er4's have been out there for more than two decades. Combining its age with the fact it has only one BA unit per side, it is only reasonable to conclude that it is obsolete. Both because of the apparent advancements in technology nowadays, and that its sound signature is no longer so unique.

How it is on your FR curve, corresponds with what I heard. The er4xr has not enough treble extension. This should be easy to tell even when compared to xelento. It got its reputation of being a "clear" or "transparent" iem not because exactly how "bright" its treble is, but more likely because it got a much skinnier mid and lighter bass than most, if not all of the other iems by its time.

No need to apologise. I need to either stand by (or offer my own apologies) for my own past posts. Just be aware of the limitations on those measurements as I (and others) have pointed out. No measurements are going to agree exactly with what you hear and no two people are going to exactly hear alike. That's why I'm begging, writing this whilst on my knees... please, please don't use language like "intrinsically flawed" or "obsolete" whether you're referring to the Xelento, the ER4XR or any other headphone on these forums. All headphones have their strengths and weaknesses. If you point out a specific aspect you don't like - that's fine. If you can suggest a fix or a superior product - even better. But simply disparaging products with statements like "intrinsically flawed" or "obsolete" is factually inaccurate, inflammatory and unhelpful. You can't measure a headphone's quality by the number of drivers it has or the reciprocal of its age. You'll find plenty of people on the ER4 thread that love their Etys. It may not sit in my top three for sound-quality alone, but the ER4XR is still my number one headphone choice for isolation. Personally, I'd still like it to have a fraction more bass, but others think differently...

ER4 thread still going strong! I’ve let go of a lot of IEMs and the ER4SR still survives. The XR had to go though. The bass boost was too much.

See?!? Variety. It's the spice of life.

 

[Kitechaser]

Hey guys I am deciding between the xelento and the new RHA cl2 planar iems.
The question that I had is for the bass response for the xelento. Is the Tesla technology semi planar, and how does it compare to other dynamic drivers?
And if anyone here has listened to both and can chime in that would make my day.
Both iems have gold star awards from majorhifi for whatever that is worth. .

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

Hey guys I am deciding between the xelento and the new RHA cl2 planar iems.
The question that I had is for the bass response for the xelento. Is the Tesla technology semi planar, and how does it compare to other dynamic drivers?
And if anyone here has listened to both and can chime in that would make my day.
Both iems have gold star awards from majorhifi for whatever that is worth. .

No, it is not planar. Beyerdynamic has a fairly thorough description of Tesla technology (their term) on their website. I'm not sure what you mean by semi-planar. Could you elaborate a bit. Are you meaning semi-open?

Below descriptions may help us use the same terms.

Xelento uses a single dynamic driver in a closed shell design (ported)
CL2 uses a single planar driver in a closed shell design (unsure if ported)
iSine10 uses a single planar driver in an open / semi-open design.

 

[Kitechaser]

No, it is not planar. Beyerdynamic has a fairly thorough description of Tesla technology (their term) on their website. I'm not sure what you mean by semi-planar. Could you elaborate a bit. Are you meaning semi-open?

Below descriptions may help us use the same terms.

Xelento uses a single dynamic driver in a closed shell design (ported)
CL2 uses a single planar driver in a closed shell design (unsure if ported)
iSine10 uses a single planar driver in an open / semi-open design.

I meant quasi planar. I read their tesla description but it didn't exactly make sense to me. I understand planar technology, but don't know what is so special about the tesla dynamic driver.
How does it help produce better sound?
And the RHA cl2 is closed, no vent holes. .

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

I meant quasi planar. I read their tesla description but it didn't exactly make sense to me. I understand planar technology, but don't know what is so special about the tesla dynamic driver.
How does it help produce better sound?
And the RHA cl2 is closed, no vent holes. .

So what is quasi-planar? What do you mean by that?

My best recommendation is to read the Beyerdynamic website. Terms like "special" aren't too meaningful, but I think they do a decent job explaining what they did and why they did it. If there are specific things from their description of the technology that are not clear to you, paste them here, and maybe we can help.

 

[Kitechaser]

So what is quasi-planar? What do you mean by that?

My best recommendation is to read the Beyerdynamic website. Terms like "special" aren't too meaningful, but I think they do a decent job explaining what they did and why they did it. If there are specific things from their description of the technology that are not clear to you, paste them here, and maybe we can help.

You guys are more familiar with the sound. Empire ears legend x is considered the end all be all iem at the moment.
How do these hold up a year after release?
I am intrigued by the RHA planar sound, but the more I read about the xelento, the more impressed I get.
End of 2018, are these still the cream of the crop?
And are there any other iems, same price range that you think are in the same league sq wise?

 

[Trager]

You guys are more familiar with the sound. Empire ears legend x is considered the end all be all iem at the moment.
How do these hold up a year after release?
I am intrigued by the RHA planar sound, but the more I read about the xelento, the more impressed I get.
End of 2018, are these still the cream of the crop?
And are there any other iems, same price range that you think are in the same league sq wise?

I don’t agree that the EE Legend X are the end-game IEMs. The Xelento has a livelier sound that is fairly magical to me. The only reason I’m considering the CL2 is because I like my iSine 20 just about as much as my Xelento, and the idea of having an IEM that does isolation is really big for me. If the CL2 are anywhere near as good to my ears as the Audeze sound generally is, it’ll be a real tough call between X and CL2.

 

[Trager]

I am probably a bit out of the norm, though. I tried pretty much all of the TOTL IEMs at CanJam SoCal 2018 and the Xelento beat out every one except for (maybe) the JH Layla...

 

[Kitechaser]

I don’t agree that the EE Legend X are the end-game IEMs. The Xelento has a livelier sound that is fairly magical to me. The only reason I’m considering the CL2 is because I like my iSine 20 just about as much as my Xelento, and the idea of having an IEM that does isolation is really big for me. If the CL2 are anywhere near as good to my ears as the Audeze sound generally is, it’ll be a real tough call between X and CL2.

How is the planar bass different than the xelento? I mean isine 20

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

You guys are more familiar with the sound. Empire ears legend x is considered the end all be all iem at the moment.
How do these hold up a year after release?
I am intrigued by the RHA planar sound, but the more I read about the xelento, the more impressed I get.
End of 2018, are these still the cream of the crop?
And are there any other iems, same price range that you think are in the same league sq wise?

You're asking some very interesting questions that other may be able to answer better.

@Trager is the only poster I've seen that I'm confident (reasonably) that has both or had both. I've read a lot of their postings and find them relevant. I've tagged them with the hope he or she may pop over to help.

I stop short of calling anything the end-all-be-all. I am much more of a subjectivist on the scale. If it sounds good to you, it's good. Full stop.

If by "hold up" you mean durability - best I can tell, great. They're solid as a rock. I say this assuming they'll hold up as well as the A&Ks physically. I haven't had the Xelentos for a year. Some people had issues with the MMCX connectors and the cable, but from what I can tell Beyerdynamic addressed those issues in manufacture between the T8ie and the MK11. Everyone's MMV re: durability.

If you mean hold up by comparison to other products... that is really tough to answer and depends hugely on what you want. I saw you "pulled the trigger" on the Vegas in your post in the other thread. I personally chose the Xelentos over the Vega, Andromeda, and Atlas. I bought a pair of BA + Dynamic hybrids to try out and fill a sound gap I felt I had before I bought the Xelento. Others may not make the same choice. Comparing a single driver dynamic to a full BA design or hybrid or planar... who knows? Rather than dodge your question with a simple YMMV, I'll say this. To me, the Xelentos (if I could only have one and only one IEM) are my pick. I don't have to make that choice, so I don't. I'm still going to try other IEMs. Others may prioritize things differently. If my preference carries some weight, then I hope it helps.

It's crazy to me how much competition there is in this price range. If you go up and down by 20% MSRP, you have 100+ choices easily. I'm sure there are a few rotten tomatoes out there, but by and large it comes down to YOUR preferences. Don't listen to what we have to say. Half the fun in this (to me) is trying them out. There are a few people that might say... Dude, why'd you pick Brand X when you could have had Brand Y. The simple answer is because TO YOU they sound better. Ignore those that try to tell you what sounds "BEST".

Wish you the best in your choice. I've seen your postings and you seem to be considering some great products.

 

[Kitechaser]

I am probably a bit out of the norm, though. I tried pretty much all of the TOTL IEMs at CanJam SoCal 2018 and the Xelento beat out every one except for (maybe) the JH Layla...

Ahhhhhh now I want the xelento as much as the CL2. Lol.
Only difference is I will actually get the xelento a hell of a lot faster.

 

[Trager]

Man, that’s a hard one to put into words. To my ears, Xelento midbass needs to be tempered just a tiny bit — the Comply tips do that exactly for me. The iSine 20 needed some EQ using the Cipher cable to really sing to me, but once I did that, they have a more even presentation than the Xelento and an absolutely lovely tonality and soundstage.

The thing with the Beyerdynamics is that they somehow have detail, punch, and fullness all at the same time, while making most music just sound amazingly alive. That really is the only way I can put it into words.

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

I am probably a bit out of the norm, though. I tried pretty much all of the TOTL IEMs at CanJam SoCal 2018 and the Xelento beat out every one except for (maybe) the JH Layla...

Ha... LOL! I just tagged you, and you were here before I posted.

See @Kitechaser - Here's a clear example. Trager and I both own and appreciate the Xelentos. His opinion of the JH Audio Laylas is that it is superior to the Xelentos. Mine is that it is not (for me). I chose not to get the Laylas. They're not my vibe. In that family of products, I prefer the Angie and the Roxanne to the Layla. They're all AWESOME products. We all have our preferences. We are truly spoiled for the choices we have.

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

Man, that’s a hard one to put into words. To my ears, Xelento midbass needs to be tempered just a tiny bit --- SNIP

The thing with the Beyerdynamics is that they somehow have detail, punch, and fullness all at the same time, while making most music just sound amazingly alive. That really is the only way I can put it into words.

+1

 

[Trager]

@ItsAllInMyHead did mention something that’s really important. In my day job, I’m a EE/test systems engineer; I’ve worked at time scales down to nanoseconds, and power levels from sub-microAmpere up through kiloWatt actuators. In my opinion, there is something to be said for using a single driver and not being at the mercy of the crossover circuit between different drivers. There are several reasons for this — it’s very hard to precisely match electronic components, so there’s likely to be some variance in the exact performance of the crossover; there are minute variations in driver compliance and response, so the relationship between drivers and crossovers can vary more than the performance of full-spectrum drivers (especially with a company like Beyerdynamic, who matches drivers with great precision before delivery); also, crossovers will have some frequency response variance based on things like input impedance, current level, etc.

All of this is just my opinion, though, and it’s not something I’ve actually run valid tests on.