[stenog]

​How much more are the Z1R to the amiron ? 4 times the cost at least... not a valid comparison.  That's like saying a Porsche is faster than a Skoda and expecting the comparison to have any credibility.  The only valid comparisons are to other units within a reasonable price variable, unless the comparison is positive in favour of the cheaper product.  To say a  $20k skoda is faster than a $200k Porsche is impressive.  The reverse means nothing, lol.

Completely agree. I wrote it just to put it into perspective. Just to be clear i like the Amiron and do not agree with the video.

I use the Ibasso DX200 and Tidal. I think many here will say it's not enough to drive the Amiron, for me is ok. I do not hear ill defined lean bass or lack of details. Actually i think the level of details is pretty good.

 

[geoffalter11]

​And therein lays the problem with any reviews.  Each is completely subjective and has no baseline.  No equal reference.  The only way to really compare is for all variables to be equal, and that can never happen since we all have different ears.

And different rigs powering them. It's all subjective. Better to hear for ourselves and form an opinion.

 

[Frank I]

  Has anyone had the opportunity, or is in a position, to compare the Amirons to Hifiman HE-560 ?

I just got a review sample today. I will do a full review on these i a but. . I have the HE560 here so I can do comparisons,

 

[CBonUK]

  I just got a review sample today. I will do a full review on these i a but. . I have the HE560 here so I can do comparisons,

 
That would be great.  Also do you have any opinions on the fostex th610 ?

 

[LaCuffia]

I thought you hated the Amiron. Not sure why you want comparisons unless you are using them as a benchmark for what you don't want.

 

[CBonUK]

I thought you hated the Amiron. Not sure why you want comparisons unless you are using them as a benchmark for what you don't want.

​I'm not sure I should not explain myself to you.  Obviously you have years of audiophile experience and know it all, but I'm at the stage of trying to learn.  Comparisons and opinion, whilst not the best way to gain knowledge, are one of the only ways I have of doing so, given there are zilch  decent stores within 90 minutes of me to try sets out.  And you are right... I did dislike the Amiron.  Part of that was a knee jerk reaction to what I thought was a build issue, part of it was concern that I had spent £75/$100 more on the Amirons than the DT1990s and did not think they sounded as good (IMO), and part was not necessarily being able to compare or pinpoint the differences in an "educated audiophile" manner.  I'm the first to admit I have a lot to learn and I am trying to do so.  So I would appreciate it if my motives were not questioned, since your post sounds almost like a criticism to me.  And even if the comparisons I got did provide a benchmark for what I don't want, that in itself is a useful process, would you not agree?

 

[LaCuffia]

I actually don't have years of audiophile experience and it was a question out of curiosity. That's all. Probably came out a little too abrupt so apologies. Good luck finding something you like and if I can help with information please feel free to ask.

Re my experience - I didn't care that much about headphones until a couple of years ago. Learned a lot in that short period of time and you will too. I guess one advantage of that is my hearing is still very good.

 

[CBonUK]

I actually don't have years of audiophile experience and it was a question out of curiosity. That's all. Probably came out a little too abrupt so apologies. Good luck finding something you like and if I can help with information please feel free to ask.

Re my experience - I didn't care that much about headphones until a couple of years ago. Learned a lot in that short period of time and you will too. I guess one advantage of that is my hearing is still very good.

​Abrupt would be a good adjective.  I can think of a few others too, lol.  But if its just a case of semantics I'm happy to overlook it.  Sometimes things get lost in translation on the written page.  One thing I am learning fast is that it probably takes longer than I gave the Amirons, to truly establish if one likes a headphone or not.  Also, whilst I can afford what I have spent (at this level at least), I'm also fearful of having spent more than I should, or than I need to.  Perhaps there is some unseated guilt at spending this amount of money on something that seems to be so tiny, compared to say, an audio unit or a set of loudspeakers. 
 
Like you I am blessed with excellent hearing.  To the extent that as a beginner learning the Cornet, after only two lessons, I was adjusting the pitch of the notes I was playing.  My teacher asked me what I was doing spending so much time on one note.  To his amazement, I explained to him that the note was not accurate and I was adjusting accordingly until I was playing the note properly.  Perfect pitch  

​Out of interest, whats the max frequency you can hear ?  I just did a test on youtube (probably not all that accurate but got similar results on several).

 

[raceturtle]

Compared to K712 I do not find the sound of Amiron that good. Amiron sounds clearer and it felt like the bass range is better controlled (may be it's the reason for the overall clearer sound?) But overall, I think, the sound produced by the K712 sounds more natural, more accurate, more alive, and more pleasant/easy to listen to. Contrary to Amiron vocals in K712 sounds full and  emotional (when appropriate). Different instruments like cymbals, violin, and cello sounds, to my perception, closer to  the real thing in K712. And the airiness in K712 which in my opinion is grate, I don't feel that airiness on the Amiron.
 
And to the positive side , comfort in Aamiron is above the level that in K712.

 

[geoffalter11]

​I'm not sure I should not explain myself to you.  Obviously you have years of audiophile experience and know it all, but I'm at the stage of trying to learn.  Comparisons and opinion, whilst not the best way to gain knowledge, are one of the only ways I have of doing so, given there are zilch  decent stores within 90 minutes of me to try sets out.  And you are right... I did dislike the Amiron.  Part of that was a knee jerk reaction to what I thought was a build issue, part of it was concern that I had spent £75/$100 more on the Amirons than the DT1990s and did not think they sounded as good (IMO), and part was not necessarily being able to compare or pinpoint the differences in an "educated audiophile" manner.  I'm the first to admit I have a lot to learn and I am trying to do so.  So I would appreciate it if my motives were not questioned, since your post sounds almost like a criticism to me.  And even if the comparisons I got did provide a benchmark for what I don't want, that in itself is a useful process, would you not agree?

What does pinpoint differences in an educated audiophile manner mean? Is there an audiophile way of describing sound? Other than the outline of history, build, comfort, sound and comclusion...

 

[CBonUK]

What does pinpoint differences in an educated audiophile manner mean? Is there an audiophile way of describing sound? Other than the outline of history, build, comfort, sound and comclusion...

​It means those who are established audiophiles are able to technically describe matters relating to the sound aspects of their equipment in an educated way, which is not something newbies can do.  The reason for this is that they have had more experience learning the technical jargon and experiencing various pieces of equipment, to the extent they can make meaningful comparison.  Whilst someone who is new can hear broad differences, it (presumably) takes more time to notice nuances.  In the same way perhaps, whilst one might appreciate or enjoy ones first ballet or concert, the more seasoned enthusiast would be able to pick out qualities that the novice cannot.

 

[LaCuffia]

Compared to K712 I do not find the sound of Amiron that good. Amiron sounds clearer and it felt like the bass range is better controlled (may be it's the reason for the overall clearer sound?) But overall, I think, the sound produced by the K712 sounds more natural, more accurate, more alive, and more pleasant/easy to listen to. Contrary to Amiron vocals in K712 sounds full and  emotional (when appropriate). Different instruments like cymbals, violin, and cello sounds, to my perception, closer to  the real thing in K712. And the airiness in K712 which in my opinion is grate, I don't feel that airiness on the Amiron.

And to the positive side , comfort in Aamiron is above the level that in K712.

I can't agree with this... I tried the 712 last year and maybe it was because it was the made in China version but I thought it was pretty bad. No bass whatsoever. For me there is no comparison with the Amiron. The build quality of the 712 seemed cheap too.

 

[geoffalter11]

​It means those who are established audiophiles are able to technically describe matters relating to the sound aspects of their equipment in an educated way, which is not something newbies can do.  The reason for this is that they have had more experience learning the technical jargon and experiencing various pieces of equipment, to the extent they can make meaningful comparison.  Whilst someone who is new can hear broad differences, it (presumably) takes more time to notice nuances.  In the same way perhaps, whilst one might appreciate or enjoy ones first ballet or concert, the more seasoned enthusiast would be able to pick out qualities that the novice cannot.

I understand what you are saying, just don't agree. Labeling as an established audiophile seems to negate the process of enjoying music and the various ways to do so. How does one become an established audiophile? I enjoyed your description earlier of perfect pitch. Whose to say you aren't hearing nuance in your cans now? To me, the concept of audiophile has almost nothing to do with how one describes or what one hears, but a love of music and the equipment used to enjoy it. I am new to the hobby, and will not pretend to be technically competent at describing what I am hearing on a graph or EQ. But I know when something sounds good. I am able to discern the difference between a loose and wooly bass to a tight, punchy and controlled bass. The person who is enjoying their first concert is just as capable of picking out the most nuanced quality. It isn't from lack of experience that may cause them to hear differently as much as their sensory focus will be more in tune with the experience or figuring out the energy. I think we all listen differently. I have seen over 1000 concerts in my life. I still hear the music the same way. I am just more familiar with the scene and how to maneuver it. In that sense I agree with your description. However, our ability to experience the music is only as great as what we put into it. Audiophile or not, you are here to share and learn. That makes you as experienced as the next.

 

[Frank I]

   
That would be great.  Also do you have any opinions on the fostex th610 ?

I have not heard them.

 

[raceturtle]

I can't agree with this... I tried the 712 last year and maybe it was because it was the made in China version but I thought it was pretty bad. No bass whatsoever. For me there is no comparison with the Amiron. The build quality of the 712 seemed cheap too.

 
Mine is made in Slovakia. I don't think it matter and it's cheap build quality either way. Anyway I wrote that I felt like the bass range is better controlled and so the bass is more present/punchy on the Amiron but that not my main criteria. I own both of them and obviously I prefer the K712 but it probably depend on the type of music one hears. I think that if someone, for example, listen to vocal works and enjoys feeling the artist emotions then he need to consider the alternative in order to make the right decision.
 
BTW to my ears the K712 need to have slightly less bass in order to be neutral, what missing is bass quality not bass quantity (hoping that I'm using the terms correctly).