[CBonUK]

I understand what you are saying, just don't agree. Labeling as an established audiophile seems to negate the process of enjoying music and the various ways to do so. How does one become an established audiophile? I enjoyed your description earlier of perfect pitch. Whose to say you aren't hearing nuance in your cans now? To me, the concept of audiophile has almost nothing to do with how one describes or what one hears, but a love of music and the equipment used to enjoy it. I am new to the hobby, and will not pretend to be technically competent at describing what I am hearing on a graph or EQ. But I know when something sounds good. I am able to discern the difference between a loose and wooly bass to a tight, punchy and controlled bass. The person who is enjoying their first concert is just as capable of picking out the most nuanced quality. It isn't from lack of experience that may cause them to hear differently as much as their sensory focus will be more in tune with the experience or figuring out the energy. I think we all listen differently. I have seen over 1000 concerts in my life. I still hear the music the same way. I am just more familiar with the scene and how to maneuver it. In that sense I agree with your description. However, our ability to experience the music is only as great as what we put into it. Audiophile or not, you are here to share and learn. That makes you as experienced as the next.

​If you understand what I said, you must recognise it to be logic.  In order to develop a full understanding of anything, one must study and encounter it over a longer period of time, or with greater intensity than the occasional student. And that is what defines an educated audiophile versus the novice one.  Why on earth would that negate the process of enjoying music ?  Does being a Heart Consultant negate the process of becoming one ?  Its just a question of definition.  I actually referred to "established audiophiles" and to ".. in an educated audiophile manner"  so you are actually taking my words out of context somewhat, in your disagreement, but I appreciate your reason for doing so.  But there has to be a difference between a novice audiophile and an experienced one. Else there would be no experts in the world   Being new to audio as I am, I would never presume to say I am as experienced as someone who has been into it for significantly longer than me.  I've heard many concerts but not as many as you.  But what I do know is the first time I heard one I did not have as great an appreciation as I do now.  I'm sure the mechanics of hearing the sounds are the same (if anything they are not as good, since our hearing deteriorates over time in an irreparable manner)  but the appreciation and understanding is what changes.  Does that make sense ? 

 

[geoffalter11]

​If you understand what I said, you must recognise it to be logic.  In order to develop a full understanding of anything, one must study and encounter it over a longer period of time, or with greater intensity than the occasional student. And that is what defines an educated audiophile versus the novice one.  Why on earth would that negate the process of enjoying music ?  Does being a Heart Consultant negate the process of becoming one ?  Its just a question of definition.  I actually referred to "established audiophiles" and to ".. in an educated audiophile manner"  so you are actually taking my words out of context somewhat, in your disagreement, but I appreciate your reason for doing so.  But there has to be a difference between a novice audiophile and an experienced one. Else there would be no experts in the world   Being new to audio as I am, I would never presume to say I am as experienced as someone who has been into it for significantly longer than me.  I've heard many concerts but not as many as you.  But what I do know is the first time I heard one I did not have as great an appreciation as I do now.  I'm sure the mechanics of hearing the sounds are the same (if anything they are not as good, since our hearing deteriorates over time in an irreparable manner)  but the appreciation and understanding is what changes.  Does that make sense ? 

Fair enough, but our difference is different logical plains. Yes, I see your definition and point as logical. However, one doesn't need to recognize logic for there to be agreement or disagreement. My boss used to say "geoff if you understand then you will agree because what I am telling you is logical". I would say it is possible for me to understand and not agree. Her response back would be " no it isn't, because if you understand then you will agree". we coexisted in different logical plains. She was in Fenway Park and I was in Yankee Stadium. Nonetheless, I think what it comes down to for me is that there are audiophiles that enjoy the analytical nuanced part of the gear and music. And those whose sole reason is to just get lost in the music and find the gear which provides the best ability to do so. I could be short changing the meaning of "audiophile" for only giving two... I'm sure there is one who likes both. So, I was asking you because I don't think there is way to define how an established audiophile will breakdown or define what they are hearing. It depends on their reason for listening and for being in the hobby. Your answer helped me to understand where you lean, which will help me answer your questions or engage in a meaningful conversation if we find ourselves in the same forum and topic. At the end of the day, however someone listens, just enjoying the music and bringing more joy to the world is all that matters. I find your curiosity and desire to learn and move from novice to expert infectious. I don't know when someone crosses that threshold. I have a hard time with labels. Established, novice, expert, etc... we are all here, I think that is the only threshold that needs crossing. But, yes I see your logic, understand it, and applaud it.

 

[CBonUK]

Fair enough, but our difference is different logical plains. Yes, I see your definition and point as logical. However, one doesn't need to recognize logic for there to be agreement or disagreement. My boss used to say "geoff if you understand then you will agree because what I am telling you is logical". I would say it is possible for me to understand and not agree. Her response back would be " no it isn't, because if you understand then you will agree". we coexisted in different logical plains. She was in Fenway Park and I was in Yankee Stadium. Nonetheless, I think what it comes down to for me is that there are audiophiles that enjoy the analytical nuanced part of the gear and music. And those whose sole reason is to just get lost in the music and find the gear which provides the best ability to do so. I could be short changing the meaning of "audiophile" for only giving two... I'm sure there is one who likes both. So, I was asking you because I don't think there is way to define how an established audiophile will breakdown or define what they are hearing. It depends on their reason for listening and for being in the hobby. Your answer helped me to understand where you lean, which will help me answer your questions or engage in a meaningful conversation if we find ourselves in the same forum and topic. At the end of the day, however someone listens, just enjoying the music and bringing more joy to the world is all that matters. I find your curiosity and desire to learn and move from novice to expert infectious. I don't know when someone crosses that threshold. I have a hard time with labels. Established, novice, expert, etc... we are all here, I think that is the only threshold that needs crossing. But, yes I see your logic, understand it, and applaud it.

 
An excellent and thorough response.  And I do take your point.  And I would not pretend to agree that your boss was right, because I don't think she was   All that is logic is not necessarily true.  I completely agree with you that enjoying music and allowing it to bring more joy to the world is the end game for sure.  And I'm not a fan of labels much myself, or at least, not in terms of absolutes or to create any negative association.  Sometimes though, they can help but as we have both proven, only if there is symmetry of definition.  If one person interprets the label differently to another there is, indeed, no point in the label in the first place.  I also agree that it must be nigh on impossible to define when someone passes from one threshold to another.  And I do hope we find ourselves in the situation of meaningful conversation many times in the future (y)

 

[geoffalter11]

An excellent and thorough response.  And I do take your point.  And I would not pretend to agree that your boss was right, because I don't think she was   All that is logic is not necessarily true.  I completely agree with you that enjoying music and allowing it to bring more joy to the world is the end game for sure.  And I'm not a fan of labels much myself, or at least, not in terms of absolutes or to create any negative association.  Sometimes though, they can help but as we have both proven, only if there is symmetry of definition.  If one person interprets the label differently to another there is, indeed, no point in the label in the first place.  I also agree that it must be nigh on impossible to define when someone passes from one threshold to another.  And I do hope we find ourselves in the situation of meaningful conversation many times in the future (y)

Thanks mate. Right back at ya. So, I went fishing last night and found that you have or had a Metrum Musette. I am on the fence but leaning towards buying one. It doesn't fit this topic stream, so to the rest on here I apologize for an off topic post, but I am curious of your thoughts and feelings on this DAC. Perhaps I should PM you to discuss this at length. InquirIng minds...

Thanks for the meaningful conversation. I hope we cross paths more too. Let's make the Musette that next path...

 

[Head1]

 

 
Sounds like he is describing the T90.
 
The sssssss and ssssshhhhh sounds are all too familiar.

 

[CBonUK]

Thanks mate. Right back at ya. So, I went fishing last night and found that you have or had a Metrum Musette. I am on the fence but leaning towards buying one. It doesn't fit this topic stream, so to the rest on here I apologize for an off topic post, but I am curious of your thoughts and feelings on this DAC. Perhaps I should PM you to discuss this at length. InquirIng minds...

Thanks for the meaningful conversation. I hope we cross paths more too. Let's make the Musette that next path...

​Think you caught the wrong fish, lol.  I don't think that was me with the musette... I know nothing about DACs and HP amps yet.

 

[geoffalter11]

 
​Think you caught the wrong fish, lol.  I don't think that was me with the musette... I know nothing about DACs and HP amps yet.

haha... you are right.  Same pic, different name.  Sorry bout that.  Was late and I was sleepy

 

[twiceboss]

Anyone here can compare this to nighhawk? Also mau compare those 2 with hd800. In terms of lows, mids, highs. Soundstage no one can beat hd800 so far. But i, finding the best bass and mids, warm noj fatiguing. HELP

 

[arielext]

If BeyerDynamic can pull it off to make an Amiron Work (the closed back edition) I'd buy that as well
 
Ever since I got the Amirons my upgradeitus was twitching and I had to find out why.
DAC: meier audio stagedac,
Amps: darkvoice 336i / rudistor rpx-33
 
Found out it was the revealing part of the amirons and here is why:
Got a pair of T1.1's but always stored them to be used for the special cases (moments and numbers). All the while my main cans where the HD600s.
The combination of the sheer music quality and the comfort made me switch from the HD600/T1.1 combo to the amiron soley. I noticed that I am finally convinced that I need lossless sources; something the HD600 never made me do. Highs that feek off, the oomph for the bass that is missing; gah! Why was I listening to V1 mp3s for all that time and thinking it was so near perfect that it wasn't worth it?
 

 

[LaCuffia]

I think I know what you mean....when you get a good source the sound out of the Amiron can be quite magical. I also keep being reminded how much they love power. I just got a Violectric V100 amp, which has a lot of juice in the factory setting alone. I can set the amp at higher pre-gain and get even better sound out of the Amiron with no distortion.

 

[geoffalter11]

I think I know what you mean....when you get a good source the sound out of the Amiron can be quite magical. I also keep being reminded how much they love power. I just got a Violectric V100 amp, which has a lot of juice in the factory setting alone. I can set the amp at higher pre-gain and get even better sound out of the Amiron with no distortion.

I agree that the Amiron love power.  When I listen to them through my portable Oppo HA-2 or Leckerton they sound good, just a bit loose.  When I plug them into 4w of power the drivers are willed into submission and they just get lovely.  So clear, extended and fatigue-free.  The biggest difference I hear is in the midrange which sounds a bit recessed without the power.  It comes forward slightly and rounds out nicely for me.  I love em..  

 

[LaCuffia]

You are exactly right ...with more power the mid range definitely gets fuller.

Glad I found the Amiron. A great headphone that should get more attention.

 

[geoffalter11]

You are exactly right ...with more power the mid range definitely gets fuller.

Glad I found the Amiron. A great headphone that should get more attention.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of reviewers on youtube like the above review will call them a sibilant nightmare and that will keep the vast majority from really giving them a shot.  Pair them properly and you get hi-fi sound full of resolution and detail.  They image beautifully.  Different strokes, I guess.

 

[kman1211]

  Unfortunately, I think a lot of reviewers on youtube like the above review will call them a sibilant nightmare and that will keep the vast majority from really giving them a shot.  Pair them properly and you get hi-fi sound full of resolution and detail.  They image beautifully.  Different strokes, I guess.

Sadly that is true, they do need power. I found the Amiron is the most power hungry of the new Tesla Beyers, though all of them really flesh out in terms of mids, bass, etc. when fed power. I think a lot of people saying the Amiron, DT 1770, and DT 1990 are sibilant nightmares are not driving them right or for whatever reason the headphones bother them. 

 

[geoffalter11]

  Sadly that is true, they do need power. I found the Amiron is the most power hungry of the new Tesla Beyers, though all of them really flesh out in terms of mids, bass, etc. when fed power. I think a lot of people saying the Amiron, DT 1770, and DT 1990 are sibilant nightmares are not driving them right or for whatever reason the headphones bother them. 

Well said Kman1211... Give em some juice and they sing.  I would agree that some aren't fond of the beyer soundscape.  I tried the 1990 as well when determining my purchase and found the Amiron to be a better listen.  That being said, I can easily see why someone would choose the Pro line over the Amiron.  But for me, they are the perfect combination.  In addition, they are without a doubt the most comfortable pair of cans I have ever worn. I hope over time folks can at least appreciate them as a beautifully built, smooth operator.  I just don't get a hint of sibilance with them.  Maybe I am not bothered by it, but even my Elears which I have never read anyone say are sibilant, can be too much for me at times.  Especially if I get a little heavy handed with the volume.  But with the Amiron, no such issue.  Just good clean fun.