[baskingshark]

I appreciate your input! Here is the thing IMO, language has nothing to do with music, especially when we are talking analyzing sound. Sound is a universal language, individuals do perceive it differently based on ear anatomy, hearing health and probably some other aspects, but there is no such a thing as a guitar speaking Spanish. I am not sure if you are following what I am trying to say.

In reviews we try to state how the product sounds, what sound performance it has. In that case, a guitar will always be a guitar, no matter what language you speak. The same goes with vocals, if you specify the mark (minutes and seconds) of the part you are analyzing, then there is no confusion to be found, you are analyzing a song and everybody can hear that part. It's about being very specific and stating what you are referring to and analyzing, if you just give a reference track... well that's about 3 minutes of music you just put as a reference... but out of those 3 minutes, what exactly were you focusing on? Language would be much more relevant if you were analyzing the song itself, not the sound.

Sound is a universal language, it also doesn't depend on the genre you listen to, what can affect that is if the reference songs do not have the same characteristics which are present in your genre. E.g. music genres which are more acoustical and raw will probably not have the rumble and boominess of electronic music, in the same way pop music will not have the edge of punk.. so it becomes close-to impossible to cover everything, that's why I think you should stay in your lane and to the music which you listen to, and just analyze it.

Also about source.. that is actually hella hard to get right. Do you use one source or what? I always do my testing with the average product such as a mac or a phone, but if I do use a source I state it with an "update" and mention the differences. Sources are actually a much bigger problem than they seem, there are so many of them out there... and it would be the biggest pain in the ass to re-write your review for each source.. I mean it would really have to be a good product or something else to make you put in that amount of effort. I guess you could stick to the most "popular" ones.. but that still doesn't make things better, because popular doesn't mean good. Maybe just use a source which you believe makes the majority of headphones/IEM's sound better, or when you know it works well with a particular type of product.

Regarding source, I generally try to use at least 3 sources for my reviews. A low powered smartphone/laptop, a DAP, a desktop DAC setup with amping, maybe some USB DAC/AMP dongle stuff. Even some bluetooth dongles like BT20S/BT20 if possible. I even know some reviewers who purposely pair a bright IEM with a warm source, and vice versa to "balance" out the sound. I'm pretty sure this will affect the sound signature to some extent, but I guess as long as it is stated in the review, people who read it will know about it.

I read a survey somewhere (have to go find it) done by some manufacturers globally, and they found that around 80% of music listeners just play the music from their smartphones for IEMs. No amping/external DACs/dongles/DAPs. I think we guys who amp stuff and use dongles/DAPs are the minority actually, so perhaps playing via low powered smartphones is the best gauge for the lay readers in reviews. Though some gear does scale better with amping for sure. Some IEMs eg planars and piezos, do occasionally sound a bit flat without amping.

Yep I agree with you about the language part, certain aspects of rhythm, harmony and melody are universal despite the spoken language. Though language aside, for different cultures, there might be certain fine nuances that we can miss, such as timbre of vocals and timbre of traditional instruments are subjective. Some spoken languages are more guttaral sounding, some languages are a bit less harsher sounding. Will these contribute to sibilance or harshness in the upper mids/lower treble?
Also in my above example of someone who has only listened to EDM his/her whole life, and has rarely heard a classical instrument or traditional instrument, will they know how is the timbre of an IEM mentioned in the reviews?
Other areas in these reference tracks like details, soundstage, instrument separation, imaging, transients, bass speed/decay etc are also all subjective to the listener/reviewer.

But yeah, it would be a bonus to have reference tracks with certain stuff to look out for eg time where this instrument appears etc, and even more ideal if you have a reviewer/headfier you follow who listens to the same music that you do. Though if say a reviewer only listens to one genre of music, and that music is of a different era or not something you usually listen to, I'm not sure how helpful it will be though.

Yeah, it's yet another 1BA + 1DD hybrid, just like KB04. The fun thing is it's apparently tuned in collaboration with Moondrop. Let's see how that turns out. The following is supposed to be the FR graph (IEC-711 coupler)

Actually the graph and driver config looks somewhat similar to the recently released KBear KB04. A bit strange for the company to release something similar in such a short timeframe? But of course graphs don't tell the full story, but if this is a collab with Moondrop, it should hopefully be of a good standard!

Also shoutouts to IEManiac for the suggestion of ASR. I found out that an HP laptop (Maybe not necessarily same model as mine but it is an HP laptop regardless) has a SINAD of 87dB which seems to put it in the complete failure tier of DACs. On the plus side it only needs a volume of 26/100 max for my shorter listening sessions with the BL-03 so the internal amp does not appear to be lacking power, but then again BL-03 is not exactly hard to drive. Is it?

BL-03 is not hard to drive, but with amping, it scales better in dynamics, details and especially the bass tightens. I find the bass has some midbass bleed with lower powered sources, but YMMV.

 

[Podster]

Just wondering whether it's the Campfire Andromeda that's being talked about?
If so, why is an $1,100 earphone being discussed in the sub-$100 thread?

Probably my fault DB, I had to post those 3 $100-$150 I was enjoying the other day in here

 

[IEMusic]

I read a survey somewhere (have to go find it) done by some manufacturers globally, and they found that around 80% of music listeners just play the music from their smartphones for IEMs. No amping/external DACs/dongles/DAPs. I think we guys who amp stuff and use dongles/DAPs are the minority actually, so perhaps playing via low powered smartphones is the best gauge for the lay readers in reviews. Though some gear does scale better with amping for sure. Some IEMs eg planars and piezos, do occasionally sound a bit flat without amping.

Great point! I think the most common smartphones, iPhone, Galaxy, etc, should be used as a source in all IEM reviews. Besides, you’re more likely to get an impedance mismatch with an amp then with your smartphone.

 

[IEManiac]

Regarding source, I generally try to use at least 3 sources for my reviews. A low powered smartphone/laptop, a DAP, a desktop DAC setup with amping, maybe some USB DAC/AMP dongle stuff. Even some bluetooth dongles like BT20S/BT20 if possible. I even know some reviewers who purposely pair a bright IEM with a warm source, and vice versa to "balance" out the sound. I'm pretty sure this will affect the sound signature to some extent, but I guess as long as it is stated in the review, people who read it will know about it.

I read a survey somewhere (have to go find it) done by some manufacturers globally, and they found that around 80% of music listeners just play the music from their smartphones for IEMs. No amping/external DACs/dongles/DAPs. I think we guys who amp stuff and use dongles/DAPs are the minority actually, so perhaps playing via low powered smartphones is the best gauge for the lay readers in reviews. Though some gear does scale better with amping for sure. Some IEMs eg planars and piezos, do occasionally sound a bit flat without amping.

Yep I agree with you about the language part, certain aspects of rhythm, harmony and melody are universal despite the spoken language. Though language aside, for different cultures, there might be certain fine nuances that we can miss, such as timbre of vocals and timbre of traditional instruments are subjective. Some spoken languages are more guttaral sounding, some languages are a bit less harsher sounding. Will these contribute to sibilance or harshness in the upper mids/lower treble?
Also in my above example of someone who has only listened to EDM his/her whole life, and has rarely heard a classical instrument or traditional instrument, will they know how is the timbre of an IEM mentioned in the reviews?
Other areas in these reference tracks like details, soundstage, instrument separation, imaging, transients, bass speed/decay etc are also all subjective to the listener/reviewer.

But yeah, it would be a bonus to have reference tracks with certain stuff to look out for eg time where this instrument appears etc, and even more ideal if you have a reviewer/headfier you follow who listens to the same music that you do. Though if say a reviewer only listens to one genre of music, and that music is of a different era or not something you usually listen to, I'm not sure how helpful it will be though.



Actually the graph and driver config looks somewhat similar to the recently released KBear KB04. A bit strange for the company to release something similar in such a short timeframe? But of course graphs don't tell the full story, but if this is a collab with Moondrop, it should hopefully be of a good standard!




BL-03 is not hard to drive, but with amping, it scales better in dynamics, details and especially the bass tightens. I find the bass has some midbass bleed with lower powered sources, but YMMV.

I am one who listens a good 80% straight from smartphone headphone out. Granted, I think my phone, a Huawei Mate 20X, has very good headphone jack SQ and power.

 

[zenki]

Regarding source, I generally try to use at least 3 sources for my reviews. A low powered smartphone/laptop, a DAP, a desktop DAC setup with amping, maybe some USB DAC/AMP dongle stuff. Even some bluetooth dongles like BT20S/BT20 if possible. I even know some reviewers who purposely pair a bright IEM with a warm source, and vice versa to "balance" out the sound. I'm pretty sure this will affect the sound signature to some extent, but I guess as long as it is stated in the review, people who read it will know about it.

I read a survey somewhere (have to go find it) done by some manufacturers globally, and they found that around 80% of music listeners just play the music from their smartphones for IEMs. No amping/external DACs/dongles/DAPs. I think we guys who amp stuff and use dongles/DAPs are the minority actually, so perhaps playing via low powered smartphones is the best gauge for the lay readers in reviews. Though some gear does scale better with amping for sure. Some IEMs eg planars and piezos, do occasionally sound a bit flat without amping.

Yep I agree with you about the language part, certain aspects of rhythm, harmony and melody are universal despite the spoken language. Though language aside, for different cultures, there might be certain fine nuances that we can miss, such as timbre of vocals and timbre of traditional instruments are subjective. Some spoken languages are more guttaral sounding, some languages are a bit less harsher sounding. Will these contribute to sibilance or harshness in the upper mids/lower treble?
Also in my above example of someone who has only listened to EDM his/her whole life, and has rarely heard a classical instrument or traditional instrument, will they know how is the timbre of an IEM mentioned in the reviews?
Other areas in these reference tracks like details, soundstage, instrument separation, imaging, transients, bass speed/decay etc are also all subjective to the listener/reviewer.

But yeah, it would be a bonus to have reference tracks with certain stuff to look out for eg time where this instrument appears etc, and even more ideal if you have a reviewer/headfier you follow who listens to the same music that you do. Though if say a reviewer only listens to one genre of music, and that music is of a different era or not something you usually listen to, I'm not sure how helpful it will be though.



Actually the graph and driver config looks somewhat similar to the recently released KBear KB04. A bit strange for the company to release something similar in such a short timeframe? But of course graphs don't tell the full story, but if this is a collab with Moondrop, it should hopefully be of a good standard!




BL-03 is not hard to drive, but with amping, it scales better in dynamics, details and especially the bass tightens. I find the bass has some midbass bleed with lower powered sources, but YMMV.

That's what I fear most.
Hence the need for sharp peaks to compensate low powered/improper equipment.
Those with proper equipment will have extra ear-pierce/s

 

[voja]

Regarding source, I generally try to use at least 3 sources for my reviews.

That's a very smart approach I must say.

and they found that around 80% of music listeners just play the music from their smartphones for IEMs

Yup, facts! You can imagine that an average consumer probably doesn't see the significance of a DAC or an AMP, so they probably don't even bother. They probably see it as a waste of money or something. But it's expect I think, you don't expect non-audiophiles to look into all that stuff, it probably looks way too complicated for them, so they just stick to a basic setup.

That's why I test all the products with my mac, it's probably the most used source. I will soon get to write the updates with some sources, but overall it's a lot of AB testing and requires a lot of time and energy, it's not an easy task for sure. And if you rush it, you aren't really doing anything... so yeah.

there might be certain fine nuances that we can miss

Definitely agree here with you. However if you specify the exact mark and the instrument or element of music which you are talking about, and also explain in detail what you hear, it would be very hard to miss it. It should be up to the reviewer to make their review so everybody can follow along. A review should inform the reader about the characteristics of sound clearly, so you explain and describe the sound accurately. It all requires a lot of time, and writing a good review is definitely no easy task.

There are way too many elements which you need to focus on, and it's near-impossible to get them all right. To mention the exact loudness you listen to, to which source, reference tracks... it takes some effort for sure!

I think the most common smartphones, iPhone, Galaxy, etc

Yes definitely, I think it's way more helpful for those who are just entering the hobby. If you are new to this field and you read all these people testing on all these sources.. it's unlikely you will get the same sound characteristics from your average phone/laptop.. and this might leave you disappointed and confused.

I am one who listens a good 80% straight from smartphone headphone out

This is completely fine, especially if you are outside for a short amount of time and you don't really care about getting everything perfect. If you are at home, I think that if you have your AMP/DAC setup, it would make it much more convenient to use your setup. I cannot see myself having a dongle or anything of that sort in my pocket while I'm biking, and taking out both the phone and the device.. it's pretty inconvenient.

 

[JEHL]

I wonder if the apple usb-c dongle would work on my HP laptop with the usb adapter. From reviews it seems like it works fine with windows. I read it throttles hard on android devices however. Wonder if apple's usb-c implementation is different from others.

 

[kadas152]

Have not heard the CA16 but I reckon their biggest competitor is the excellent BA5 which sells for $10 less.

I like the T3 but stay away if your are a treble wimp. They are not for everyone.

I am not particularly treble sensitive so I believe that should not be the problem.

Currently deciding between CCA C16 an TRN BA5. Don't mind +-$10 but the question which one should I get?

 

[chickenmoon]

Got myself the Moondrop SSR, Tin T1, Tin T2 Plus and the Wolf Head IEM.

 

[baskingshark]

Got myself the Moondrop SSR, Tin T1, Tin T2 Plus and the Wolf Head IEM.

Respect!!! Enjoy your loot!

I'm very interested in the Wolf's Head IEM's sound quality, let us know how it is.

I bought a Shanling Q1 DAP and some Dac/Amp dongles with ES9280C PRO chips inside.

Decided to hold off on the SSR cause it looked a bit bass lite for my tastes. But I'm very interested in the SSP bass variant and the Tanchjim Hana, unfortunately the latter will only arrive on Aliexpress next week after the sale ends.

 

[chickenmoon]

Respect!!! Enjoy your loot!

I'm very interested in the Wolf's Head IEM's sound quality, let us know how it is.

I bought a DAP and some cheap Dac/Amp dongles with ES9280C PRO chips inside.

Decided to hold off on the SSR cause it looked a bit bass lite for my tastes. But I'm very interested in the SSP bass variant and the Tanchjim Hana, unfortunately the latter will only arrive on Aliexpress next week after the sale ends.

Thanks, I'll let you know when I get the Wolf Head one, not expecting too much though but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. If you're into DIY the Wolf Head shells only can be bought for very cheap from some ali seller.

Not too sure about the the SSR (and the T2 Plus) myself as I like my low-end too, Etys aren't really my thing and these two look like Ety clones soundwise it seems, I'll see.

I am looking forward to the Hana too, probably gonna buy it as it gets out.

 

[Podster]

Regarding source, I generally try to use at least 3 sources for my reviews.

This for sure is the best plan as far as review/testing iem's, I have been dabbling over 15 years in portable now and can attest most phones are the worst for music file delivery however using a BT DAC/AMP (ES100, BTR5, etc.) to this date has been their saviors. Impedance matching as well as other factors with any of this gear can be tricky at times but like all audio once one gets their synergies right it's usually that nirvana moment. Of course IMHO the number one is and always has been the quality of the file recording as you can have the best equipment on the planet and if the engineering, codec or the equipment in which the audio was recorded on sucks your TOTL will sound equally as bad if not worse as you are aware a lot of great gear really emphasizes what the recording is lacking and far less forgiving than say a $20 Chi-Fi iem. Just imagine how many iem's would get poor marks if all you tested them with was a noisy, poor quality amp/DAC phone were used! I remember the very first desktop amp I had was like night and day from coming straight out my phone and even dedicated DAP's as cheap as a Benjie S5 could take out a cell phone. Just my observations on the source subject, like everything in audio we all have a little different take on this but in the end it's really pretty simple and not rocket science, of course you can be scientific and all technical but that has even been shown just because of measurements and graphs show hard data it does not always translate to the actual experience with what any given individual hears

 

[xeadfi]

Is there a sub 50$ chi-fi that mimics the Etymotic ER4SR Frequency response?

Something with pristine clarity & imaging? And with above average sound stage?

I would be listening to using my LG v30. My choice of music is soft rock, pop rock & occasionally some classics. I listen mainly to Scorpions, Beatles & Led Zeppelin.

So far, I am really partial to TRN v90. Is there something better considering my requirements?

 

[Sebulr]

Is there a sub 50$ chi-fi that mimics the Etymotic ER4SR Frequency response?

Something with pristine clarity & imaging? And with above average sound stage?

I would be listening to using my LG v30. My choice of music is soft rock, pop rock & occasionally some classics. I listen mainly to Scorpions, Beatles & Led Zeppelin.




So far, I am really partial to TRN v90. Is there something better considering my requirements?

The upcoming moondrop ssr has a similar graph. It's a budget diffuse field target set by the looks of it. Caveat, I haven't heard either, just looking at the fr graphs

 

[OpiateSkittles]

Is there a sub 50$ chi-fi that mimics the Etymotic ER4SR Frequency response?

Something with pristine clarity & imaging? And with above average sound stage?

I would be listening to using my LG v30. My choice of music is soft rock, pop rock & occasionally some classics. I listen mainly to Scorpions, Beatles & Led Zeppelin.




So far, I am really partial to TRN v90. Is there something better considering my requirements?

Personally, I find the treble of almost all TRN, CCA, or KZ IEMs unbearably hot. I think the T2 is a much more effective means to the end of natural and accurate sonic reproduction.