[MaZa]

DT770 is good for gaming. My Ultrasone Proline 750, while good for gaming, and especially for stuff that is above or below your, it has some troubles rendering behind-you effects properly. It does them, but not as clearly. Probaply byproduct of S-Logic. HFI serie shouldnt doesnt have that extreme driver placement than Prolines though. DT770 provides killer bass, but also quite satisfying imagining, from front to back and up to down. Audio Technica A900 is said to be even more superior in imagining, perhaps due to the faster and less muddy sound.

Note, soundstage size isnt that critical for gaming other than for immersion. Accurate imagining and speed is.

 

[hd650]

go with AKG cans. From my 240df, i think it reproduces the most natural sound stage

 

[thedauntlessone]

MaZa do you mean accurate imaging because imaging and imagining are two different things.

 

[Agrajag]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpeezy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've always thought CS 1.6 had detailed audio. Footsteps are a major portion of the game as are grenade sounds and many other audio related things. I agree that with some games (COD4, Halo, CS:S) the headphone hardly matters.

First, let me point out that I work for Ety and am responsible for the EDGE products.

The audio in CS 1.6 is not good. The audio on CS:S is, on the other hand, vastly improved. The best examples come from games like GRAW2 (which won the best game audio award last year from the industry).

Quote:

The big thing that would worry me about using Etys for gaming would be the lack of bass. I love it for music, but I really doubt it would have a good sound for games.

First, this comment is not correct in a few ways:

1. Ety's don't lack bass. We provide the bass that is there. We can't help it that everyone has been raised on solutions that dramatically overstate the bass because people respond to it as they do. Also realize that 90% of the time I encounter this statement it's because someone didn't have a good seal in their ears. I'm a Rush fan and that means a Neil Peart fan. I love my bass, but I don't need it artificially coloring everything else I'm trying to listen to.

2. Gaming is about accuracy. If what you're getting is not accurate then you will need to overcome that. The GX400 (and the ER-4P's) have an accuracy rating around 90% where competing products, (which are not designed for accuracy) are way, way below that. In what way would lower accuracy be helpful in a game? Remember that for all these years headphone technology was built around use for music. Music is not about accuracy for the masses. Manufacturers strive to "enhance" it to impress their customers in different ways. This then got applied to gaming as if this was a non-issue. It's no different that realizing you have a screw to loosen and having someone tell you a butter knife is the best tool for the job.

3. Bass, especially very enhanced bass, is not what you want in a game. This is like saying that you don't see how the lack of light at night hinders sight. Bass muddies spatial cues in games. You're trying to pick out specific sounds and, instead, those are drowned out with every single low that comes by.

Go see who recommends our products. Read the reviews from the gamers who bought them on Amazon.

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: E.D.G.E. Acoustics GX400 Enhanced Definition Gaming Earphones - Black

Look at the quotes. Not just random ones. John Miles, who does the 3D audio engine used in over 4200 games, has never recommended a product. He does recommend the GX400 and says it's what you want to use when you want to hear everything in the game. This is the guy responsible for the audio in the very games we play. I think he's in a position to know.

I came to Ety as a gamer. I wrote the Official Sound Blaster book series. I helped get audio adopted in PC's back in the day. I approached them because I've used most every headphone/headset on the market and found these to help my gaming the most. I realized later why that was. Everyone else has used solutions designed for music. Ety came at it from the medical audio equipment industry and hearing aid technology perspective where everything is about accuracy. It just so happens that this is a perfect synergy for games.

Foe-Hammer, while the audio in COD4 is decent, it's not a great example. Why? For one thing, the maps are so small that on a busy map you get so much detail that it tends to run together more than in less chaotic games. Yes, you'll be able to hear the footsteps but try out GRAW2 for an example of what I'm talking about. I can hear targets from 60 YARDS away. There are maps in COD4 that have trouble being 60 yards long in total. heheh

Please take a moment to read the white paper we did on this whole thing. We spent 2 1/2 YEARS in a research study measuring the response times of FPS gamers all over the world using different equipment. We had to invent a one-of-kind audio benchmark tool called, "Marco Polo" to get all this data. The results are pretty black-and-white. The better the accuracy of the product, the faster gamers are able to locate targets in a 3D game.

E.D.G.E. Acoustics Lab

There are two links there under Audio Research. One is about Marco Polo and the other is on why quality matters for gamers. Lastly we're one of the only companies that let you take our product at shows and go use it with your own stuff for hours and then come back. Why? Because we know exactly what the response is of people who actually use them. Just like the above poster experienced at PDX LAN. His comments weren't based on hearsay or theory. He actually used them, on his setup, with his games and he knows for himself now that the claims we make are not hype.

 

[cooldude1015]

Alright so I got my HFI-780s and here are my impressions.

Music: With music these babies are awesome, I don't know what it is about them but even songs that have become old and boring for me are interesting with these headphones.

Gaming: The first thing I noticed about these headphones compared to my SE530 and my Icemat Siberias was the high treble response. In fact, when I first started using them I was incredibly uncomfortable playing CSS because shooting was especially loud. Now that I've used them for a while I've gotten used to them. So this is what they mean about the treble being rolled off on the SE530s?

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedauntlessone /img/forum/go_quote.gif MaZa do you mean accurate imaging because imaging and imagining are two different things.

English isnt my first language, sorry! Yes, I meant imaging. Not imagining, as in sense "imagination".

So, for gaming accurate imaging is important. A large soundstage which creates sensation of sound coming far away is mostly illusion created by distance of the drivers from your ear and how the sound is reflected in the cups. And IEMs or small Supraural headphones obviously produce rather small soundtage. Though that does sound cool in games. But what is more important is accurate imaging like Agrajag said, so you immidietly realise where the sound is coming from, or perhaps even where the source of sound is. (depending how well the sound engine is coded)

 

[Trepid!ty]

After a lot of reading and searching I still haven't found a good answer to this so I'm hoping someone here can help.

Agrajag, you mention the GX400's and ER-4P's have the same accuracy rating, are the GX-400's just a cheaper version? EG would the ER-4P's be as good for gaming while being better for music as well?

I have seen a lot of talk about Audio Technica's being great for gaming, has anyone compared these? Beyerdynamics DT880's have also been recommended on here for their accuracy but I have not seen any comparisons to Ety's.

Personally I would prefer a full size pair of cans as I find them more comfortable but if there is nothing as accurate as the in ear's I'd be willing to sacrifice (or more likely buy a full size set as well for music.

)

Onto the other end of this equation:

Is the current consensus for the best sound card the Auzentech Prelude? I read through the entire Xfi thread (~160 pages!!) and after all that it seemed the Prelude was an easier way to get the same quality for headphones.

Would Ety's / AT's / Beyers need an amp as well for maximum quality in games, or is this really only necessary for music?

Thanks for any input you guys can provide.

EDIT:
I should mention I currently have the Razer AC-1 HP-1 combo which I desperately need to replace. The HP-1 I don't think I need to say anymore about. The AC-1 while I find it 'okay' for my Klipsch speakers for music, the ESP effect in games has me wondering if I'm hearing things which I shouldn't be (which confuses more than it helps I think). I'd like to test a new set of cans with the AC-1 before getting a prelude though.

I have to thank E.D.G.E. Acoustics Lab Holophonic Sound Demo for showing me the err of my ways in thinking 'surround headphones' were an advantage!

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trepid!ty /img/forum/go_quote.gif After a lot of reading and searching I still haven't found a good answer to this so I'm hoping someone here can help. Agrajag, you mention the GX400's and ER-4P's have the same accuracy rating, are the GX-400's just a cheaper version? EG would the ER-4P's be as good for gaming while being better for music as well? I have seen a lot of talk about Audio Technica's being great for gaming, has anyone compared these? Beyerdynamics DT880's have also been recommended on here for their accuracy but I have not seen any comparisons to Ety's. Personally I would prefer a full size pair of cans as I find them more comfortable but if there is nothing as accurate as the in ear's I'd be willing to sacrifice (or more likely buy a full size set as well for music. ) Onto the other end of this equation: Is the current consensus for the best sound card the Auzentech Prelude? I read through the entire Xfi thread (~160 pages!!) and after all that it seemed the Prelude was an easier way to get the same quality for headphones. Would Ety's / AT's / Beyers need an amp as well for maximum quality in games, or is this really only necessary for music? Thanks for any input you guys can provide. EDIT: I should mention I currently have the Razer AC-1 HP-1 combo which I desperately need to replace. The HP-1 I don't think I need to say anymore about. The AC-1 while I find it 'okay' for my Klipsch speakers for music, the ESP effect in games has me wondering if I'm hearing things which I shouldn't be (which confuses more than it helps I think). I'd like to test a new set of cans with the AC-1 before getting a prelude though. I have to thank E.D.G.E. Acoustics Lab Holophonic Sound Demo for showing me the err of my ways in thinking 'surround headphones' were an advantage!

Beyers, yes.. I'm glad more people are getting away from 'gaming headphones'..

 

[Trepid!ty]

Thanks for your response kool bubba ice. In your link "the ultimate gaming headphone guide" you mention electros are best for gaming, then mention entry level stax to be the Stax SR-001 Mk2. Would you say these would be better than the DT880/GX400 for accuracy? (It's actually the first I've seen these mentioned in reference to gaming is all)

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trepid!ty /img/forum/go_quote.gif Would Ety's / AT's / Beyers need an amp as well for maximum quality in games, or is this really only necessary for music?

If your computer is silent, go for Beyerdynamic open headphones like DT880 and DT990. Fan hum on the background can break the soundstage and imaging somewhat, so closed headphones are safer choice, and are better for immersion too. Audio Techinca's closed headphones, from A700 to A900 should be safe choices. Beyerdynamic DT770 is good too, im using one now and directional imaging is good. IEMs like Etymotics are too much of a hassle and not very comfortable for long term gaming.

 

[Trepid!ty]

My pc is very quiet (after lot of spcr help) and I like the idea of open for comfort. Would the 990's be even better than 880's for this? Would they need an amp or could they run off the prelude?

I don't have any retail outlets nearby that stock any high end cans like these so it makes the purchase a bit harder.

Edit, I guess what I'm really after is the highest quality headphones for gaming (and then music).

Edit 2, Any recommendations on where to buy these? Locally (in Australia) they are $530, compared to $220 on amazon (but i just discovered that doesn't ship internationally, looks about $300 is best i can find)

 

[Agrajag]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trepid!ty /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agrajag, you mention the GX400's and ER-4P's have the same accuracy rating, are the GX-400's just a cheaper version? EG would the ER-4P's be as good for gaming while being better for music as well?

Let me state it this way. There's a reason the division, EDGE Acoustics was created. If anyone looks at the technical specs of the ER-4P's and the GX400's and sees a striking similarity, that'd be great. Both of those products offer the exact same fidelity for music and gaming.

Quote:

Beyerdynamics DT880's have also been recommended on here for their accuracy but I have not seen any comparisons to Ety's.

They're not as accurate but if you want a circumaural headphone then these are pretty impressive. I like mine. Another good circumaural headphone I've tested for gaming is the Sennheiser HD 497. Be aware that both are open air and that may be an issue depending on environment.

Quote:

Personally I would prefer a full size pair of cans as I find them more comfortable but if there is nothing as accurate as the in ear's I'd be willing to sacrifice (or more likely buy a full size set as well for music. )

The comfort issue I can't agree with you on. I don't even feel my GX400's. I can't imagine how something I'm not even aware of can be less comfortable than any other choice. Yes, it'll take you a little bit to get used to putting something in your ear but that's very temporary. Again, feel free to hop onto our clan's ventrilo server and talk to guys who are playing and wearing theirs day-in day-out.

With respect to accuracy, as I said, that's part of the equation. First, ask yourself this question. Why is it Etymotic is one of the few companies that posts accuracy scores? The others don't because they aren't. Second, you're not going to get more isolation from a circumaural then a good-fitting earphone design. We're usually a minimum of 10x the isolation of the best circumaural designs. That isolation is a big deal when you're trying to localize effectively. As I also said, I prefer these for music but can understand if some people simply cannot do without artificial bass.

Quote:

Is the current consensus for the best sound card the Auzentech Prelude?

I would argue, as usual, the definition of "best" here. Is it the best sound card on the market? Define your terms? However, I currently find it to be a solid solution for mixing gaming, music and movies and it's currently the card I use in my main gaming rig.

I have an amp for my setup but don't use it for games. I've not felt the need but the ER-4P's/GX400 respond well to being driven. If this was an ER-4S I'd say you must get an amp.

Quote:

be (which confuses more than it helps I think). I'd like to test a new set of cans with the AC-1 before getting a prelude though.

Razer is great at marketing. 'Nuff said.

Quote:

I have to thank E.D.G.E. Acoustics Lab Holophonic Sound Demo for showing me the err of my ways in thinking 'surround headphones' were an advantage!

God, please, if you do NOTHING else, please, please, please save yourself from the marketing involved in so-called surround headphones, ESPECIALLY for gaming. Your ears are stereo. Don't forget that. Also note that we didn't create that demo. It's just an excellent example of what's possible and so we recommend listening to it.

Quote:

I'm glad more people are getting away from 'gaming headphones'..

I have to comment on this. There is nothing wrong with the idea of "gaming headphones". The problem is that what the market has been fed 99% of the time are simply not up to being able to say that. I'll be glad if consumers start to ask why said products are considered good for gaming. In our case we know the fidelity and isolation of our products provide a significant advantage in being able to localize. It's the reason we let consumers try out our stuff before they buy them.

Quote:

IEMs like Etymotics are too much of a hassle and not very comfortable for long term gaming.

Please provide specifics on this comment. Which of our products have you owned and how long have you gamed with them? I've been wearing mine for 6 years and game with them hours upon hours on end. I would love to know what you find to be a hassle about them. In fact, our customers tell us the complete opposite. You don't have to take my word for this. Go read the reviews. Go ask the guys who game with them every single day and ask them if they're experiencing comfort issues. Sorry to get testy but this sounds very much to me like a comment from someone who speaks of theory and not example.

 

[MaZa]

What headphones I own or have owned is in my profile, and about all of them have been used tried in gaming from time to time. And ATM I own Etymotic ER-6i and Jays d-JAYS, both IEMs and use them from time to time. Be it silicon domes, foamies of flanges, its always a small hassle to insert PROPERLY (its not easy for every ear. Even my both ears are different how easy an IEM is to insert with proper seal without pressure build-up or leaving it too loose). Especially compared to normal headphones which you can just put on and off, and are comfy as heck generally. Comfort is quite personal though, I admit, but some ear canals get irritated by IEMs or even earplugs. Mine doesnt, but in the other hand I have quite high ear-mucus "production" which clogs IEMs (and sometimes my ears too) quite fast, so IEMs arent for everyone. Normal headphones are so handy, AND can be very good for gaming aswell.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

My pc is very quiet (after lot of spcr help) and I like the idea of open for comfort. Would the 990's be even better than 880's for this? Would they need an amp or could they run off the prelude?

SPCR is a great place, my current rig is built with hints I found from their forums and suggestions I have received from there.

Only thing Im waiting now is Arctic Coolings Accelero S1 passive cooler for my GPU. Once that arrives my rig will be almost dead silent!

DT880 is more accurate and therefore would be better for gaming. DT990 has boosted highs and mid-bass to enhance fun factor a little bit, but for accurate gaming DT880 is better IMO. DT990 isnt bad either though.

 

[Agrajag]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif And ATM I own Etymotic ER-6i and Jays d-JAYS

Thank you. You just made my point for me. You have not owned either of the products I've discussed but you're speaking about them as if you're an authority on them. The ER-6i has an entirely different design from our more expensive products. It's a product designed, from the ground up, to provide a step up for iPod users over the horrible default earbuds they get with that device. The d-Jays are similar to the ER-6i in their bulbous design and use an ear tip design that isn't known to be all that comfortable. I too find both types to take more effort to get a better fit.

You've experienced a couple of Saturn models and are telling people what to expect from a Mercedes.

Quote:

its always a small hassle to insert PROPERLY (its not easy for every ear.

But you speak as if your experience will be universally the case. I insert mine in an instant. It's takes me no longer to put mine in than it does to sit headphones on my head and adjust them slightly.

Quote:

and are comfy as heck generally.

We get loads of comments from people who say the various traditional headphones they've owned are uncomfortable after a couple hours of use and, worse, often are associated with discomforting sweat. I don't know a single serious gamer that wants hot, sweaty ears when they're playing. As I said, I wear mine a LOT. I wear them much of my day at work (for obvious reasons). I wear them for 2 hours at the gym several days a week. I wear them for MANY more hours when gaming on my own time and I'm a serious gamer.

Quote:

Normal headphones are so handy, AND can be very good for gaming aswell.

Again, there's two sides to that view. I can carry several sets with me in less space than a single circumaural takes. I'm not sweating like those users in LAN party environments or on a mildly warm day in my own home. Speakers can be good for gaming. Surround speakers can be good for gaming. Any headphone can be good for gaming. The question I'm targeting is what design produces the most benefits for gamers? I believe that's what this thread was looking to answer. It's our view that higher isolation and accuracy are key components in that desire and our research results speak clearly to that point.

I'm not telling everyone what's best for them but I'm also not telling them to discount things based on theoretical conjecture. Again, feel free to actually talk to existing customers and ask them, first-hand about these things. Aren't their real-world in-depth experiences worth more than some guesswork? I fully understand the hesitation to take what I'm saying at face value but I'm only pointing out the facts and asking for people to listen to actual users.

Lastly, FWIW, I've noticed an alarming number of gamers telling me they're now experiencing tinitus to various degrees and many of them are very young. I have a theory that this is happening due to increasing noise from fans and such in our PC environments. When we did our research every gamer got a sound meter to measure their environment. The results were very high. I also often encounter comments like, "I used to hear the fans but now I don't so you get used them." Uh, no, you just don't hear them anymore and that's not a good thing.