[MaZa]

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Thank you. You just made my point for me. You have not owned either of the products I've discussed but you're speaking about them as if you're an authority on them. The ER-6i has an entirely different design from our more expensive products. The d-Jays are similar in their bulbous design and use an ear tip design that isn't known to be all that comfortable. You've experienced a couple of Saturn models and are telling people what to expect from a Mercedes.

I never mentioned any models, im talking about general design of IEMs. They have to seal your earcanal without making pressure build-up, no? You can put them on fast? Good for you. I can for only my other ear. And practise also plays a role. If you read impressions here, you find that IEMs are definetly for everyone. Many people have problems with making proper seal. If its either because lack of practise or due to ear canal shape, I dont know. More you insert them though, faster you can insert them, probaply very fast too without actually thinking what you are doing.

Are you saying that im wrong on this account? If so, then please tell me how, I am always willing to learn more and fix my views.


Note, if you are talking about IEMs with earmolds, then Im most likely wrong, but those arent IEMs I talk about nor have much interest on either. They probaply are comfy and easy to insert, (hell, they are following the shape of your ear afterall) but I am talking about affordable headphones and IEMs, something you can buy and plug'n'play. Something in the price range with headphones mentioned in this thread. You are talking about the fence when im talking about fence-pole?

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We get loads of comments from people who say the various traditional headphones they've owned are uncomfortable after a couple hours of use and, worse, often are associated with discomforting sweat.

I stand corrected. Clamping force can sometimes be helped by slight bending, and sweating is mostly a problem with (p)leather pads that doesnt allow the skin to breath properly. Latter isnt definetly fun... But for 12 hour gaming marathon I'd still rather have pillowy velvet circumaular headphone than plug stuffed against the thin and fragile skin of my earcanals. Again, speaking of general IEMs.

 

[Agrajag]

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Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif I never mentioned any models, im talking about general design of IEMs.

RIGHT. You drove a Saturn and you're damning all vehicles as being similar. heheh

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If you read impressions here, you find that IEMs are definetly for everyone.

I have to believe there's an error in that comment. Just so you know, it's this very forum that got me interested in IEM's (and Etymotic specifically) in the first place. Nothing is for everyone short of breathing air.

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Are you saying that im wrong on this account? If so, then please tell me how, I am always willing to learn more and fix my views.

I'm saying that your experience is limited and based on two products that aren't good examples of the point you're trying to make. I understand your issue entirely. I've got dozens of IEM's here. Many of them are a hassle to deal with. I'm not recommending ER-6i's for this case. I'm not recommending D-Jays. I did recommend a BD and a Senn.

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They probaply are comfy and easy to insert, (hell, they are following the shape of your ear afterall)

Again, this is a comment you're offering up without having any experience (and I'm not being critical there, I'm just using it as an example). Most mold users I've talked with find the molds to be much more of a challenge to insert. While it follows the END shape of your ear, they don't just pop right in. For most people they need to be wedged into that fit. I prefer 3-flange tips and can insert those instantly. I can't do that with my molds (which I only use for my cellphone headset).

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But for 12 hour gaming marathon I'd still rather have pillowy velvet circumaular headphone than plug stuffed against the thin and fragile skin of my earcanals. Again, speaking of general IEMs.

I understand entirely where you're coming from. Let me share a simple example. Do you golf? One of the chief complaints you get from first-time golfers is the incredibly nasty sores they get on their hands after their first round. If they golf again they'll develop a callus and that stops being an issue.

How many 12-hour gaming sessions have you been in with IEM's in? I've been in too many to count going back 6 years. The initial slight discomfort I had went away after a week. I can't say if that's due to becoming desensitized or having developed some sort of in-ear callus but again, I'm saying that I play with serious gamers every day who are using IEM's for hours on end and NONE of them are complaining of discomfort. Any one of you is welcome to come speak to any of them. They don't work for me. They bought them just like anyone else. They just had my example to go by to help them decide. I will say most of them were indeed concerned about it before they bought them. They're not now and that fact speaks volumes about this concern.

 

[MaZa]

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RIGHT. You drove a Saturn and you're damning all vehicles as being similar. heheh I have to believe there's an error in that comment. Just so you know, it's this very forum that got me interested in IEM's (and Etymotic specifically) in the first place. Nothing is for everyone short of breathing air. I'm saying that your experience is limited and based on two products that aren't good examples of the point you're trying to make. I understand your issue entirely. I've got dozens of IEM's here. Many of them are a hassle to deal with. I'm not recommending ER-6i's for this case. I'm not recommending D-Jays. I did recommend a BD and a Senn.

I prefer big BMW's anyway... They arent 'vehicles', they are Cars with capital C.

Perhaps I am too harsh on all plug-type IEMs, so NOW we are getting somewhere. What particular models you are recommending? So, as a design, how that IEM differs from those two that I own? Or models that usually do get credit from being not really comfy? Comfort-vise, design, how to insert... etc... what makes it THAT different? As I said, I am willing to learn.


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Again, this is a comment you're offering up without having any experience (and I'm not being critical there, I'm just using it as an example). Most mold users I've talked with find the molds to be much more of a challenge to insert. While it follows the END shape of your ear, they don't just pop right in. For most people they need to be wedged into that fit. I prefer 3-flange tips and can insert those instantly. I can't do that with my molds (which I only use for my cellphone headset).

It was more an assumption. As I said, I havent had any interest for them, I dont even have gathered any impressions where I might get a general idea what they are like to use. I just assumed that they might be very handy and comfy by to LOOKS, and wondered if you were talking about them.

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I understand entirely where you're coming from. Let me share a simple example. Do you golf? One of the chief complaints you get from first-time golfers is the incredibly nasty sores they get on their hands after their first round. If they golf again they'll develop a callus and that stops being an issue. How many 12-hour gaming sessions have you been in with IEM's in? I've been in too many to count going back 6 years. The initial slight discomfort I had went away after a week. I can't say if that's due to becoming desensitized or having developed some sort of in-ear callus but again, I'm saying that I play with serious gamers every day who are using IEM's for hours on end and NONE of them are complaining of discomfort. Any one of you is welcome to come speak to any of them. They don't work for me. They bought them just like anyone else. They just had my example to go by to help them decide. I will say most of them were indeed concerned about it before they bought them. They're not now and that fact speaks volumes about this concern.

Sort of similar idea with getting used to Grados rough feeling, skin on the earlobe getting tougher. I do use foam earplugs commonly though, daily on work. While using them has become easier, I do get some irritations from them which feel really nasty. I'd also rather not stress my earcanals with any weekend gaming sessions.

And no, I hadnt done that long gaming sessions with IEMs, as I said. Since I had normal headphones that offered similar, if not better, perfomance with better "set-it-and-forget-it" type comfort, the idea of starting to use them commonly for gaming hasnt come to my mind. I do it from time to time, but not very long. Binaural tracks are still IEM-only for me.

 

[Agrajag]

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Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, as a design, how that IEM differs from those two that I own?

Take a look at the tips for starters. The D-Jays have a huge single tip. Either it fits it or doesn't and the odds aren't very good. Both of these are also stocky and offer very little in the way of leverage to make a quick seal. Now look at the size of the GX400 or the ER-4P's. Both are housed in VERY slim designs and the 3-flange tip will fit in most ears with no trouble or discomfort.

With the GX400's I can pick them up, put my index fingers on the back and do a simple 1-second push. The 3-flange tip grabs hold and when I let go it seals. I put both in at the same time. Now that said, LEARNING this technique takes a bit. I HIGHLY recommend that new users do it the goofy way we show in diagrams. That teaches you to get a proper seal.

As far as what I'm talking about. Here's a simple piece of info. If there's no difference between the fit of the ER-4's/GX400's and the ER-6i's then why is there an isolation difference between them? The fact is that they were designed for different uses.

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I do use foam earplugs commonly though, daily on work. While using them has become easier, I do get some irritations from them which feel really nasty.

That is clearly one area where people are often different. My engineers (the gaming ones) love foam. I don't. Foam makes my ears itch but not theirs. Go figure.

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Binaural tracks are still IEM-only for me.

The same things that make IEM's beneficial for binaural tracks is very much the same thing that makes them beneficial for FPS gaming. I again suggest that you think about what you're looking for in gaming, especially FPS gaming. Accuracy is a key ingredient. Why people want to continually try to find the best butter knife to use as a screwdriver when they can use a screwdriver is my issue.

 

[Trepid!ty]

Wow, thank you both so much for the information. I am learning more and more about the 'sorry about your wallet'. Looks like I will have to purchase the GX-400's and DT880's and make my own decision! lol

I'd be interested in chatting to your clan if you could give me the vent details (or pm if they're not public).

I am still curious about the differences of the GX-400's and ER-4P's. Is it just the mic on the 400's? Are there any higher end Ety models with the same performance for games but better at music?

Lastly I am unable to purchase them from the buy link at Amazon because they do not ship to Australia. Any ideas?

Again, thanks for all the help in making these decisions. Having people to talk to is always more effective than any advertising IMHO.

 

[MaZa]

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Originally Posted by Agrajag /img/forum/go_quote.gif Take a look at the tips for starters. The D-Jays have a huge single tip. Either it fits it or doesn't and the odds aren't very good. Both of these are also stocky and offer very little in the way of leverage to make a quick seal. Now look at the size of the GX400 or the ER-4P's. Both are housed in VERY slim designs and the 3-flange tip will fit in most ears with no trouble or discomfort. With the GX400's I can pick them up, put my index fingers on the back and do a simple 1-second push. The 3-flange tip grabs hold and when I let go it seals. I put both in at the same time. Now that said, LEARNING this technique takes a bit. I HIGHLY recommend that new users do it the goofy way we show in diagrams. That teaches you to get a proper seal. As far as what I'm talking about. Here's a simple piece of info. If there's no difference between the fit of the ER-4's/GX400's and the ER-6i's then why is there an isolation difference between them? The fact is that they were designed for different uses.

Yes, round silicon domes arent good for me. However, ER-6i comes with 3-flanges, biflanges and foamies. They are same that are used with ER-4 actually, IIRC. Biflanges and Foamies are best for me, but neither are good for me in long terms. Where the isolation difference comes from escapes me... How would the slim design help with comfort since the plugs are which touch your ear? Well, perhaps weight, but ER-6i are practically weightless, the cable is what causes some weight and it has shirt clip to reduce that.


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The same things that make IEM's beneficial for binaural tracks is very much the same thing that makes them beneficial for FPS gaming. I again suggest that you think about what you're looking for in gaming, especially FPS gaming. Accuracy is a key ingredient. Why people want to continually try to find the best butter knife to use as a screwdriver when they can use a screwdriver is my issue.

Thats why I recommend DT880 over DT990, and even DT770 unless open can isnt an option. Its all because of accuracy. DT880, being really flat headphone is great choice for gaming. The treble spike makes it sound sharper, thats all, and etymotics also have similar slight spike in treble.

 

[Agrajag]

Our vent server is vent.lethalbrigade.net port:4340

Look for the GRAW2 channel and ask around. It won't take long to find users.

As far as performance, it's a personal thing. The GX400 and ER-4P are both top performance. I prefer them for music but I like clean sound. I'm not into some company's interpretation of what a song should sound like. I want to hear it the way the producer produced it.

The Australia issue is an issue right now as Amazon has purchased all of our stock and controls which Amazon's get them.

The GX400 has an additional mic, in-line controls, a longer cord (10') and PC audio connectors.

Maza, appearances are not always what they seem. The ER-6i supports a SIMILAR 3-flange tip to the one on the ER-4 series but it's not the same. The problem with fit is that you have a design that's not as easy to manipulate into place (that's my opinion and one I think my boss would disagree with). The 4's and 400's are easy to do that.

On the DT880, note my recommendation of it as well. It's a nice flat response.

 

[LordofDoom]

I use Sennheiser HD600s and I'm a big gamer myself, however I think you can save a bit of money and purchase the Sennheiser HD555s which seem to be better for gaming for various reasons.

 

[MaZa]

Hmmm... If that what you say is true, perhaps I should take a look on Er-4 someday if I ever get an itch to upgrade my IEMs. ER-6i is indeed bit dodgy shaped and does make inserting more wierd.

 

[Trepid!ty]

Ok so I've decided I'll get both if I can find somewhere that will send GX-400's to Australia, or maybe some kind soul here would do that...

I've read that Meier amps go very well with Beyers and I'm looking at the Corda Arietta as a starting point. Lot's of talk about the great cross feed but I'm wondering if this would affect gaming accuracy and whether it would hinder or benefit that aspect. Any ideas?

So the plan is Auzuntech Prelude > Meier Corda Arietta > Beyer DT880s/GX-400s (unless the amp might somehow reduce accuracy.)

 

[MaZa]

Sounds good to me. Crossfeed isnt necessary for gaming, it might actually harm it since the 3D sound already has a crossfeed of its own (which determines where the sound is coming from), and adding hardware crossfeed might harm it. So switch it off for gaming. Its good for some music though, reduces annoying sensations of extreme lefts and rights.

 

[Cry Havoc]

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Originally Posted by Agrajag /img/forum/go_quote.gif Our vent server is vent.lethalbrigade.net port:4340

Are you just a GRAW based clan, or do you participate in other games as well?

 

[spacemanspliff]

Really all that you need is the Prelude and some Koss SB40s for gaming. I would at least try that first. Only $30 for the Koss and they stand up against anything for gaming at least.

 

[Trepid!ty]

spacemanspliff that sounds very hard to believe, have you done any direct comparisons to DT880s/ER-4P's/GX400s?

 

[Cry Havoc]

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Originally Posted by Trepid!ty /img/forum/go_quote.gif spacemanspliff that sounds very hard to believe, have you done any direct comparisons to DT880s/ER-4P's/GX400s?

I think what he says has a bit of merit. While good audio is necessary for gaming, it is not going to always (or often) make the difference between living and dying. I'm sure the ER-4P's are noticeably better at location and sound accuracy, however, there is a lot more to FPS games than sound, obviously. Those who expect to buy ER-4P's and it to make a night and day difference in their scores and general gameplay will likely be mistaken. For serious gamers, it might make the difference in a couple of scenarios, and that's what makes it worth it for them.

It's a lot like buying a mouse. A Logitech G5 is clearly superior to a standard optical mouse, but it's not going to take you from being a horrible player to a great player. It's just going to make the things you do well a bit better and more consistent. I know players who are running dual 8800s, 4 gigs of ram, with a custom mousepad and gaming headset, and they get fragged all the time, and get very upset about it.

Nothing substitutes for skill. Not the best headphones, not a laser mouse, nada.