Best Smartphone for audiophile
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Oct 22, 2016 at 11:01 PM Post #4,756 of 7,916
  Actually, smartphone with Snapdragon 820 or higher already has built in audio decode function.
Even without the dedicated DAC, they play at lease CD quality audio files now.
 
so far, 
Moto Z seems to be standing out with all the modules accessories

 
Sorry esprithk, it's not against you, but I guess you're not aware that you're talking about.
Every digital devices has DAC (digital-analogue converter) for creating analogue sound (Our ear can process analogue signal only). For example, your whatever mobile phone with whatever chipset and operating system can not give even ringtone without a DAC (Digital devices with voice recording function also have ADC - analogue-digital converter).
The question is only that, what about the sound quality of that DAC, even if that is built in or dedicated.
The native lossless format playback is not equal the sound quality. Just like the good mastered records in well decoded mp3 format can sounding better than the average records in lossless formats.
Earlier SoC-s are doing CD quality and lossless formats also. My old Moto xt890 with Intel Atom doing it well...but the overall sound quality is not really nice to me. And there is the point.
If you are not will be happy with the Moto Z built in sound quality, there is the option to build your own with one of its developer module.
And this is a great option. Just imagine: I prefer the wolfson sound over the sabre, or a burr brown. I'll build my choice. Same with the opa-s. Combining them, etc etc.
 
Oct 22, 2016 at 11:31 PM Post #4,757 of 7,916
   
Sorry esprithk, it's not against you, but I guess you're not aware that you're talking about.
Every digital devices has DAC (digital-analogue converter) for creating analogue sound (Our ear can process analogue signal only). For example, your whatever mobile phone with whatever chipset and operating system can not give even ringtone without a DAC (Digital devices with voice recording function also have ADC - analogue-digital converter).
The question is only that, what about the sound quality of that DAC, even if that is built in or dedicated.
The native lossless format playback is not equal the sound quality. Just like the good mastered records in well decoded mp3 format can sounding better than the average records in lossless formats.
Earlier SoC-s are doing CD quality and lossless formats also. My old Moto xt890 with Intel Atom doing it well...but the overall sound quality is not really nice to me. And there is the point.
If you are not will be happy with the Moto Z built in sound quality, there is the option to build your own with one of its developer module.
And this is a great option. Just imagine: I prefer the wolfson sound over the sabre, or a burr brown. I'll build my choice. Same with the opa-s. Combining them, etc etc.

 
 
I am just saying from Snapdragon 820 CPU, many smartphones already use the built in feature of this chip for audio.
Of course, it has limitation at bitrate and noise.  But it seems majority of the smartphone manufacturers choose this way to save cost.
 
A dedicated DAC is of course the superior choice.  *I personally use LG G5 + HiFi Plus module now.  Previously, I brought a OPUS#1 with me.  
 
I personally still prefer an independent DAC and circuit design in a smartphone.
*I am waiting for the next MEIZUor HUAWEI smartphone with DSD playback support.
*I gave up on LG V20 due to the network issue with LG phones.  Yes, it is very strange, but sometimes, I do lost 4G LTE signal and even have experience of dropping wifi signal. very very strange bugs in LG phones.  For audio player, it is great.  But for daily phone functions, this is a big issue.
 
 
 
 
*about Snapdragon 820
 
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/snapdragon/2016/06/02/qualcomm-aqstic-sets-new-standard-audiophiles
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 10:20 AM Post #4,758 of 7,916
Well, besides cost saving there is another huge issue with proper dedicated dac / amp in phones, that is battery life.
 
Good sound needs ample energy and this is the reason even very expensive phones do not have the special audio circuitry always on.
 
Cause they would get ridiculous battery life in reviews and that would be even worse saleswise than having no dedicated dac /amp at all.
 
Just my 2c.
 
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 1:34 PM Post #4,759 of 7,916
   
Good sound needs ample energy and this is the reason even very expensive phones do not have the special audio circuitry always on.
 
Just my 2c.
 

I politely disagree here.
The main CPU of smartphones is usually more power hungry than dedicated audio chips because it has multiple cores and is designed to manage a huge variety of tasks.
A dedicated audio DAC can allow battery saving. The amp part is another story. You need a lot of power mainly if you want to power large headphones, it is not a prerequisite for most IEMs.
 
There are half a dozen examples of smartphones where the dedicated audio part is there to save power on top of allowing lossless format decoding.
And the same is true for DAPs not using an Android-based system, they're usually more economical on power because they don't extreme PU power and high-res screen (Cowon DAPs were great examples before Plenue 1/M/S).
 
Android has been the bane of autonomy so far, because the high res screen and versatility expected from smartphones requires powerful CPUs. The audio part is not responsible for autonomy decrease. Having the main CPU handle audio is for saving cost, nothing else.
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 1:59 PM Post #4,760 of 7,916
hello everyone
i just purchased the HIFIMAN HE400S, (which is a 22 ohm planar magnetic headphone)
according to GSMARENA, Huawei Honor 8 is the best smartphone for headphones in terms of audio quality (with a noise level -SNR- of 98.0 through the headphone jack !!!), & according to Phonearena it has an output power of 0.42 Volts (which should be sufficient for a 22 ohm headphone)
 
yet i find most members rave about their LG V10, HTC 10, Meizu Pro 5 & Lenovo Vibe x3
 
I'm assuming that there's more to sound quality than just metric audio tests.
 
My question is, Why would any of the above mentioned phones outperform the Honor 8?
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 2:51 PM Post #4,761 of 7,916
  hello everyone
i just purchased the HIFIMAN HE400S, (which is a 22 ohm planar magnetic headphone)
according to GSMARENA, Huawei Honor 8 is the best smartphone for headphones in terms of audio quality (with a noise level -SNR- of 98.0 through the headphone jack !!!), & according to Phonearena it has an output power of 0.42 Volts (which should be sufficient for a 22 ohm headphone)
 
yet i find most members rave about their LG V10, HTC 10, Meizu Pro 5 & Lenovo Vibe x3
 
I'm assuming that there's more to sound quality than just metric audio tests.
 
My question is, Why would any of the above mentioned phones outperform the Honor 8?

 
They have dedicated hardware for audio needs. As far as I know, the Honor does not.
 
I wouldn't trust review sites in general re: audio in smartphones. There are a very few that know what they're talking about. In general this aspect of a smartphone has been the least researched topic ever since the smartphone frenzy has started a few years back. I doubt that there any real long-going audiophiles that do this in any great depth except hobbyists here.
 
For a long while people didn't even know or care that Iphone's had superior audio capabilities compared to their Android counterparts (a few years ago).
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 3:28 PM Post #4,763 of 7,916
   
They have dedicated hardware for audio needs. As far as I know, the Honor does not.
 
I wouldn't trust review sites in general re: audio in smartphones. There are a very few that know what they're talking about. In general this aspect of a smartphone has been the least researched topic ever since the smartphone frenzy has started a few years back. I doubt that there any real long-going audiophiles that do this in any great depth except hobbyists here.
 
For a long while people didn't even know or care that Iphone's had superior audio capabilities compared to their Android counterparts (a few years ago).

not trusting review sites with their fancy RMAA equipment seems weird.
Any how what did the hobbyists in this forum agreed upon, as the best sounding smartphone?
i don't care about loudness, i need the best clarity.
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 4:08 PM Post #4,764 of 7,916
not trusting review sites with their fancy RMAA equipment seems weird.
Any how what did the hobbyists in this forum agreed upon, as the best sounding smartphone?
i don't care about loudness, i need the best clarity.

We need the best SQ. I have never heard it so can't comment on it. But I am fully satisfied with my HTC 10. But like most others on head if I am always looking for something better.

So why don't you buy it and report back. If it's better than the HTC 10 I will buy it tomorrow :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:.
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 4:14 PM Post #4,765 of 7,916
  not trusting review sites with their fancy RMAA equipment seems weird.
Any how what did the hobbyists in this forum agreed upon, as the best sounding smartphone?
i don't care about loudness, i need the best clarity.

Refer to this list made by @artpiggo
 
 
Meizu Pro 5: Warm Signature with good detail. a bit roll off treble. Slow speed. Decent sweer mid bass. Super good at Vocal and audiophile. While listening to Utada Hikaru, I can feel her whisper so gently. However some metal and EDM is not quite for Pro 5.
Meizu Pro 6: Still in warm tone. smaller soundstage with thinner mid than Pro 5. 
Lenovo Vibe X3: Let's say it has analytical sound signature with tight bass and good impact. extended treble. Faster speed. Good at overall. comparable to LG V10.
Xiaomi Mi Note (Standard/Pro): Mi note Pro is like Lenovo vibe X3. while mi note has lesser bass compared to Pro. Fast Speed. Bright tone
LG V10: Monitoring sound. High Power output but need to activate it by adding resistance adaptor properly. Huge soundstage. good instrument separation.
LeTV Le Max/ Pro (Gen 1) Le Max has highest power output among all phone I test. Speedy. Widest soundstage. can pull up all Micro-detail in song. Impact and bass is overwhelming. extended treble. Instrument separation is also comparable to mid-fi DAP. Overall. God of Rock music. while 5.5" Letv Pro is cheaper and give more relaxing compared to Le Max with wide soundstage and good detail and separation as usual.
Alcatel Flash Plus 2: Just good for its price. doesn't come any close to all list above. It is good for slow song, crystal clear bell. Thin mid and bass impact is not punchy for some song.
Vivo X5 Max: Fun and catchy. Treble Emphasis. can easily make your ear tired. 3D Soundstage. need matching with bass headphone like SONY.
Vivo X5 Pro / Vivo V3 Max : It is Alcatel Flash Plus with better separation.
Vivo Xshot: warm tone. bassier for some songs. but still feel good listening to it.
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 4:20 PM Post #4,766 of 7,916
  Refer to this list made by @artpiggo
 
 
Meizu Pro 5: Warm Signature with good detail. a bit roll off treble. Slow speed. Decent sweer mid bass. Super good at Vocal and audiophile. While listening to Utada Hikaru, I can feel her whisper so gently. However some metal and EDM is not quite for Pro 5.
Meizu Pro 6: Still in warm tone. smaller soundstage with thinner mid than Pro 5. 
Lenovo Vibe X3: Let's say it has analytical sound signature with tight bass and good impact. extended treble. Faster speed. Good at overall. comparable to LG V10.
Xiaomi Mi Note (Standard/Pro): Mi note Pro is like Lenovo vibe X3. while mi note has lesser bass compared to Pro. Fast Speed. Bright tone
LG V10: Monitoring sound. High Power output but need to activate it by adding resistance adaptor properly. Huge soundstage. good instrument separation.
LeTV Le Max/ Pro (Gen 1) Le Max has highest power output among all phone I test. Speedy. Widest soundstage. can pull up all Micro-detail in song. Impact and bass is overwhelming. extended treble. Instrument separation is also comparable to mid-fi DAP. Overall. God of Rock music. while 5.5" Letv Pro is cheaper and give more relaxing compared to Le Max with wide soundstage and good detail and separation as usual.
Alcatel Flash Plus 2: Just good for its price. doesn't come any close to all list above. It is good for slow song, crystal clear bell. Thin mid and bass impact is not punchy for some song.
Vivo X5 Max: Fun and catchy. Treble Emphasis. can easily make your ear tired. 3D Soundstage. need matching with bass headphone like SONY.
Vivo X5 Pro / Vivo V3 Max : It is Alcatel Flash Plus with better separation.
Vivo Xshot: warm tone. bassier for some songs. but still feel good listening to it.

 
Only few support SD card: Meizu Pro5, Lenovo Vibe X3, LG V10.
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 4:29 PM Post #4,767 of 7,916
  Refer to this list made by @artpiggo
 
 
Meizu Pro 5: Warm Signature with good detail. a bit roll off treble. Slow speed. Decent sweer mid bass. Super good at Vocal and audiophile. While listening to Utada Hikaru, I can feel her whisper so gently. However some metal and EDM is not quite for Pro 5.
Meizu Pro 6: Still in warm tone. smaller soundstage with thinner mid than Pro 5. 
Lenovo Vibe X3: Let's say it has analytical sound signature with tight bass and good impact. extended treble. Faster speed. Good at overall. comparable to LG V10.
Xiaomi Mi Note (Standard/Pro): Mi note Pro is like Lenovo vibe X3. while mi note has lesser bass compared to Pro. Fast Speed. Bright tone
LG V10: Monitoring sound. High Power output but need to activate it by adding resistance adaptor properly. Huge soundstage. good instrument separation.
LeTV Le Max/ Pro (Gen 1) Le Max has highest power output among all phone I test. Speedy. Widest soundstage. can pull up all Micro-detail in song. Impact and bass is overwhelming. extended treble. Instrument separation is also comparable to mid-fi DAP. Overall. God of Rock music. while 5.5" Letv Pro is cheaper and give more relaxing compared to Le Max with wide soundstage and good detail and separation as usual.
Alcatel Flash Plus 2: Just good for its price. doesn't come any close to all list above. It is good for slow song, crystal clear bell. Thin mid and bass impact is not punchy for some song.
Vivo X5 Max: Fun and catchy. Treble Emphasis. can easily make your ear tired. 3D Soundstage. need matching with bass headphone like SONY.
Vivo X5 Pro / Vivo V3 Max : It is Alcatel Flash Plus with better separation.
Vivo Xshot: warm tone. bassier for some songs. but still feel good listening to it.


thank you for sharing these findings, only if he had an Honor 8 or an HTC10 to test them out, this comparison would be perfect.
i would like to add that i do own a FIIO X3 1st gen, (i find it to be louder and more detailed than my s7 edge)
would any phone out there beat it in terms of audio quality?
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 7:07 PM Post #4,768 of 7,916
thank you for sharing these findings, only if he had an Honor 8 or an HTC10 to test them out, this comparison would be perfect.
i would like to add that i do own a FIIO X3 1st gen, (i find it to be louder and more detailed than my s7 edge)
would any phone out there beat it in terms of audio quality?


Test htc10 already. Since it is not my taste (too bassy for me). So I think i will let someone who really love this SQ review it woild be better.

Answer your another question, it can beat on quality of course refering to my list, pro5 vibe x3 v10 letv pro/max, mi note pro. All of it quite same detail same sounstage level as fiio x3ii. It is juust different tone (more warm or bright individually)

Only thing DAP advance than smartphone is power output for dribing fullsize. In case you just use mid tier uiem ciem, audiophile smartphone is more than enough.
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 7:23 PM Post #4,769 of 7,916
There are still room for lg v20 and vivo xplay5 elite for making a concrete list. Anyone can help:grin:
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 8:43 PM Post #4,770 of 7,916
 
Quote:
  I politely disagree here.
The main CPU of smartphones is usually more power hungry than dedicated audio chips because it has multiple cores and is designed to manage a huge variety of tasks.
A dedicated audio DAC can allow battery saving. The amp part is another story. You need a lot of power mainly if you want to power large headphones, it is not a prerequisite for most IEMs.

 
There are half a dozen examples of smartphones where the dedicated audio part is there to save power on top of allowing lossless format decoding.
And the same is true for DAPs not using an Android-based system, they're usually more economical on power because they don't extreme PU power and high-res screen (Cowon DAPs were great examples before Plenue 1/M/S).

 
Android has been the bane of autonomy so far, because the high res screen and versatility expected from smartphones requires powerful CPUs. The audio part is not responsible for autonomy decrease. Having the main CPU handle audio is for saving cost, nothing else.

 
 
Ok, I can agree with some of that.
 
Like phones need powerful cpus, but these are developed in a specific way to aggressively save power. I mean the whole SoC is a bunch of circuits, including the cpu itself and all of these things in there are actively switched on and off all the time, because there is one very specific goal, not empty the battery too fast.
 
Sure, the screen backlight can't be switched off (assuming non oled screens here) and so many pixels have to be pushed around all the time for the thing to look cool. Can't get around that because we have to sell them phones.
 
My non educated guess is that inside the SoC the internal sound circuit is operated on-demand most of the time if not all the time, that is, turn it on just in time to play something then quickly turn it off, just like all other circuits in the SoC including cpu cores, modems, GPS circuitry etc.
 
But you can't turn off an external circuit like dedicated dac / amp in the aggressive way the SoC turns on and off what is inside the SoC itself. It is not a simple thing to implement, this technology was developed with this kind of energy saving in mind from the outset and this is one of the reasons Intel's cpus can't do it, cause you can't retrofit this in anything already designed differently.
 
Anyway, this is my understanding of the circuitry in a modern phone. If it wasn't for that, it beats me why anyone configures a hifi phone where the user switches that circuit on only when he needs it. I mean, why is it not always on? Would it bother users if it was always on, playing anything that needs sound output? All that would be required was a kernel instruction that would re-direct any call for audio output to the external dac / amp, end of story. So why don't they do it? Google doesn't allow it? Don't think so.
 
My only answer is that it costs way too much in power demand to have that circuit always on, I bet it can't even sleep proper at all, and most of the time it wouldn't be playing anything so why have it on, it would only kill battery life and make the whole phone look bad in reviews and such.
 
Just my 2c.
 
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