Best Smartphone for audiophile Part II (Updated: Jan 2020)

Jun 24, 2020 at 5:10 AM Post #3,541 of 5,377
It's a veritable tragedy that modern Android flagship phones will likely never have an audio jack going forward, with the exception of LG (for now at least). Consumer demand isn't there since most prefer TWS Bluetooth IEMs for convenience, and the extra space taken up by an audio jack will always lead to a missed opportunity for better specs. I used an OnePlus 8 Pro (12GB RAM/256GB internal storage) today and it performs much better than the LG V60. That 120hz refresh rate on a high pixel density and higher STB ratio QHD display makes the V60's display look bad. Everything runs and feels much snappier on the OP8P especially when multitasking with hundreds of Chrome tabs and running small business related tools/apps. It's probably due to the 2x refresh rate, 1.5x RAM, and OxygenOS instead of the mess that is LG UX. Only downside is about 20% lower battery life reported with standard benchmarks but it supports 30W fast wireless charging so it's a moot point. The LG V60 is way better value though (1/3 the price), after selling the bundled Dual Screen Case and Tone Free TWS IEMs. I bought the LG V60 outright unlocked for $1100 CAD but sold the second screen and TWS IEMs for $300 and $250 respectively on eBay, making the LG V60 effectively cost only $550 CAD ($400 USD) compared to $1550 CAD for the OP8 Pro.

Anyway, that was a pointless personal rant, I don't think most people here care about having the latest Android flaship specs as I do. I do wonder how close a OP8P + FiiO BTR5 (Bluetooth DAC/AMP with AptX HD/LDAC streaming) comes to an LG V40/50/60 in terms of SQ, paired with a midrange IEM like the FiiO FH7 or CA Solaris 2.
 
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Jun 24, 2020 at 6:03 AM Post #3,542 of 5,377
It's a veritable tragedy that modern Android flagship phones will likely never have an audio jack going forward, with the exception of LG (for now at least). Consumer demand isn't there since most prefer TWS Bluetooth IEMs for convenience, and the extra space taken up by an audio jack will always lead to a missed opportunity for better specs. I used an OnePlus 8 Pro (12GB RAM/256GB internal storage) today and it performs much better than the LG V60. That 120hz refresh rate on a high pixel density and higher STB ratio QHD display makes the V60's display look bad. Everything runs and feels much snappier on the OP8P especially when multitasking with hundreds of Chrome tabs and running small business related tools/apps. It's probably due to the 2x refresh rate, 1.5x RAM, and OxygenOS instead of the mess that is LG UX. Only downside is about 20% lower battery life reported with standard benchmarks but it supports 30W fast wireless charging so it's a moot point. The LG V60 is way better value though (1/3 the price), after selling the bundled Dual Screen Case and Tone Free TWS IEMs. I bought the LG V60 outright unlocked for $1100 CAD but sold the second screen and TWS IEMs for $300 and $250 respectively on eBay, making the LG V60 effectively cost only $550 CAD ($400 USD) compared to $1550 CAD for the OP8 Pro.

Anyway, that was a pointless personal rant, I don't think most people here care about having the latest Android flaship specs as I do. I do wonder how close a OP8P + FiiO BTR5 (Bluetooth DAC/AMP with AptX HD/LDAC streaming) comes to an LG V40/50/60 in terms of SQ, paired with a midrange IEM like the FiiO FH7 or CA Solaris 2.
Sony Xperia 1 II is a modern 2020 Android Flagship with:

- SD865 (fastest as of now)
- 256GB UFS 3.0 flash
- 8GB RAM
- 3.5mm headphone output with 24b/192kHz audio
- microSDXC card slot

https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_1_ii-10096.php

Granted, it doesn't have that 90-120Hz screen (but id does have near 4K resolution and HDR ). And oh yes, it costs $1000€+, so it's not cheap.

The death knell rang, when Apple bought Beats and needed to make that purchase worthwhile, so they removed the 3.5mm headphone jack and started selling the Pods cr*p.

Then Samsung bought Harman international and did the same move.

Then almost all Chinese followed suit, by starting to remove the headphone jack AND selling their $100 totally crap worthless AND buds (they are ALL crap, both in SQ and in ANC).

So, LG and Sony are left (and Asus, to some extent, and India models like Poco, Realme, etc).

I will keep using them until there is no option left.
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 6:25 AM Post #3,543 of 5,377
It's a veritable tragedy that modern Android flagship phones will likely never have an audio jack going forward, with the exception of LG (for now at least). Consumer demand isn't there since most prefer TWS Bluetooth IEMs for convenience, and the extra space taken up by an audio jack will always lead to a missed opportunity for better specs. I used an OnePlus 8 Pro (12GB RAM/256GB internal storage) today and it performs much better than the LG V60. That 120hz refresh rate on a high pixel density and higher STB ratio QHD display makes the V60's display look bad. Everything runs and feels much snappier on the OP8P especially when multitasking with hundreds of Chrome tabs and running small business related tools/apps. It's probably due to the 2x refresh rate, 1.5x RAM, and OxygenOS instead of the mess that is LG UX. Only downside is about 20% lower battery life reported with standard benchmarks but it supports 30W fast wireless charging so it's a moot point. The LG V60 is way better value though (1/3 the price), after selling the bundled Dual Screen Case and Tone Free TWS IEMs. I bought the LG V60 outright unlocked for $1100 CAD but sold the second screen and TWS IEMs for $300 and $250 respectively on eBay, making the LG V60 effectively cost only $550 CAD ($400 USD) compared to $1550 CAD for the OP8 Pro.

Anyway, that was a pointless personal rant, I don't think most people here care about having the latest Android flaship specs as I do. I do wonder how close a OP8P + FiiO BTR5 (Bluetooth DAC/AMP with AptX HD/LDAC streaming) comes to an LG V40/50/60 in terms of SQ, paired with a midrange IEM like the FiiO FH7 or CA Solaris 2.

When you see the evolution in Vivo's flagship regarding battery usage while keeping the same audio quality , it's really sad indeed ...
They kept audio quality from Xplay 5S to Xplay 6 then Nex S , while on board circuit and battery usage drastically decrease , and instead of using this result that took many years to achieve , they go on lower audio quality ... Feels like it was a waste of time.
Nex 3S with same audio quality than XP 5S or 6 would be a deal breaker (but FunTouch OS is another subject ...).

You can see now that there are more focused on camera and photo (Gimbal camera ... ) and totally give up audio section.
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 6:39 AM Post #3,544 of 5,377
It is a cycle of smartphone. When the camera technology is not great, they need to focus on having an outstanding SQ to promote the sales and pull people from mp3 player market to go to smartphone as an all-in-one purpose.

Then when camera tech is improving. Advertising for photo quality is much easier in social network. so cannot blame. it is all about business and company vision.

I would say DAP is much improving faster both in speed, sound and unique features. same as USB c to 3.5/2.5/4.4 mm. the interest is shifting always.

Maybe in next decade, audiophile smartphone trend would come back again.
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 12:20 PM Post #3,545 of 5,377
I do wonder how close a OP8P + FiiO BTR5 (Bluetooth DAC/AMP with AptX HD/LDAC streaming) comes to an LG V40/50/60 in terms of SQ, paired with a midrange IEM like the FiiO FH7 or CA Solaris 2.
I haven’t tested the BTR5 but I‘ve received the Qudelix-5K, which has similar specs. While I place my V30 a real step above the ES100, with the 5K it’s another story, and I’m not worried anymore about getting a good photo phone that has no hp jack, or a perfunctory one. The 5K essentially does what the V30 did, which is pull the SQ and technical ability from current mid-range DAPs and put them in a much more convenient form factor.
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 2:26 PM Post #3,546 of 5,377
I do wonder how close a OP8P + FiiO BTR5 (Bluetooth DAC/AMP with AptX HD/LDAC streaming) comes to an LG V40/50/60 in terms of SQ, paired with a midrange IEM like the FiiO FH7 or CA Solaris 2.
It'll be slightly behind.
Tested with V30 with and without the Btr5 paired via bluetooth or as a usb dac.
As a usb dac, the btr5 is on par with the V30, imo.
 
Jun 25, 2020 at 7:00 AM Post #3,547 of 5,377
Sony Xperia 1 II is a modern 2020 Android Flagship with:

- SD865 (fastest as of now)
- 256GB UFS 3.0 flash
- 8GB RAM
- 3.5mm headphone output with 24b/192kHz audio
- microSDXC card slot

https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_1_ii-10096.php

Granted, it doesn't have that 90-120Hz screen (but id does have near 4K resolution and HDR ). And oh yes, it costs $1000€+, so it's not cheap.

The death knell rang, when Apple bought Beats and needed to make that purchase worthwhile, so they removed the 3.5mm headphone jack and started selling the Pods cr*p.

Then Samsung bought Harman international and did the same move.

Then almost all Chinese followed suit, by starting to remove the headphone jack AND selling their $100 totally crap worthless AND buds (they are ALL crap, both in SQ and in ANC).

So, LG and Sony are left (and Asus, to some extent, and India models like Poco, Realme, etc).

I will keep using them until there is no option left.

Do we know what kind of internal DAC it has?
 
Jun 25, 2020 at 9:26 AM Post #3,548 of 5,377
20200625_202427.jpg


Too easy for Xplay6 to drive Arya Fullsize at satisfactory level for my listening
 
Jun 30, 2020 at 10:36 AM Post #3,550 of 5,377
Do we know what kind of internal DAC it has?

Sony Xperia 1 II most probably uses a Qualcomm audio codec. Can be their flagship Aqstic WCD9341, a dedicated audio chip. Only a proper tear-down will reveal the details. As I found out this audio chip contains a very good DAC section and can produce nearly 1 Vrms at headphone out when implemented in high performance mode.

Last year I bought the Meizu 16th (Meizu 16 in China), which sadly was their last flagship with a headphone jack. At $240 in India, it came with Qualcomm Snapdragon 845 SoC & 8GB RAM. Meizu India provided us a fully Google certified device with Google Playstore (GMS) pre-installed. In short, pretty awesome performance, built quality & assured Google security for its price. In general during certification process, Google just wipes the slate clean with any of the Chinese mobiles and mainly due to security reasons rejects factory installation of half of their China specific apps. On the negative side, we do not get many useful apps which are present on their Chinese ROMs.

Meizu has a rich history of making portable music players before they ventured into smartphones and still today makes some very good quality headphones & earphones. As such the company understands sound quality and many of their previous flagships smartphones came with dedicated DAC solutions. However for 16th, there was no press material indicated anything extraordinary in the audio department. I took for granted it was using some low quality audio codec from Qualcomm. However more I listened music through my Meizu 16th, more I fell in love with this device. One day just for fun I sat down a did some critical listening with some good earphones, and immediately noticed the sound quality is above ordinary through the audio jack. It has to do with both the audio tuning & hardware. I started reasoning my mind how is it possible with Qualcomm codecs and Meizu must have done something special.

After going through some Chinese websites performing detailed tear-downs, I found Meizu 16th was using the highest quality flagship audio codec available from Qualcomm, better known as Aqstic WCD9341. WCD9341 is a dedicated audio chip with ADC, DAC and headphone amplifier built in. It is not just some random low cost audio codec shoved into a Qualcomm power management IC. It supports PCM playback of upto 384 kHz, native DSD steams upto DSD128 and also DoP (DSD over PCM). With an advertised dynamic range of 130 dB & distortion of -109 dB during audio playback the WCD9341 is quite close to ESS ES9218P SABRE (LG's Quad DAC) or Cirrus Logic CS43199 (Vivo NEX S). Digging deeper I found Qualcomm partnered and further tuned their flagship WCD9341 under the guidance given by a group of audiophiles known as "Golden Ears". Qualcomm was then able to create custom digital filters which creates the final sound signature which are generally preferred by audiophiles.

However in real life even if these objective measurements are very close to ESS & Cirrus Logic, there still remains a gap in performance which Qualcomm needs to fill. ESS & Cirrus Logic still are the kings in the smartphone audio segment. In Meizu 16th tear-downs by Chinese media, I found the WCD9341 audio chip sits under its own tiny metal plate cover with graphite & copper shielding on top. So the chip is well isolated from rest of the PCB and other ICs, eliminating a lot of induced noise on the analog stage of WCD9341. Frankly, quite impressed as Meizu shelled more money in the production line to make sure the sound quality remains intact through the 3.5 mm audio jack.

The other fact I noticed on 16th is the power available through audio jack is much higher than similar WCD9341 implementations like in OnePlus 6 (sadly the last OnePlus with audio jack). The OnePlus frankly sounds anemic in comparison, no drive. Meizu seems to have much more power and can drive same headphones much better. This is mostly due a better power supply stage to the audio chip. Going through the spec sheet I found WCD9341 is designed to perform with power anywhere between 6mW to 34mW. In high performance mode it will require all of those 34 mW and maybe Meizu is providing all the power it needs by dedicated power supply rails to WCD9341. On other hand LG's QuadDAC consumes 2.5 times more power at 80mW but provides over 2 Vrms output, more than twice that of WCD9341.

Again, truly impressed by Meizu's dedication for sound quality as I see & hear the difference of the same audio chip with drastically different performance levels between Meizu & OnePlus. The expertise of Meizu in audio tuning also plays a big role here. In actuality it is Meizu's good implementation that makes the WCD9341 shine.

Subjectively, Meizu 16th sound signature more akin to my LG V30+ or Vivo X5Max, which can best be described with words like pristine, neutral & accurate. Just like LG & Vivo, the amount of detail retrieval is very high in this Meizu smartphone. To my tastes WCD9341 is better than anything from AKM stables, be it AKM AK4376 or AK4376A in terms sound quality. Others may vary. Drive capability on my Vivo X9/V5Plus (AKM AK4376) and Meizu 16th is more or less the same.

The default music player provided by Meizu is good and convenient to use but Vivo default iMusic app is better. LG has the best default music player in my opinion. The 16th supports all kinds of PCM audio files however it does not support native DSD playback even though WCD9341 supports it. Meizu music player is unable to play DSD files be it DSD64, DSD128 or DSD256.

Good news is while using USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP) on Meizu 16th, it correctly detects and says "Internal HiRes DAC Detected". However during DSD playback, UAPP performs software decoding from DSD to PCM at 176.4 kHz. This proves both support for native DSD playback using DoP protocol and existence of a direct software audio tunnel to the audio chip are not present on this phone. History reveals Meizu never supported DSD playback. I was not able to distinguish any sound quality improvements on UAPP over default music player when playing high quality PCM files. However I primary use UAPP as it gives me a consistent feel among my multiple devices.

One of the other reasons I bought Meizu 16th was the dual front firing stereo speakers. Each speaker is powered by a dedicated Cirrus Logic CS35L41 mono speaker amplifier, so sound is loud & crisp leaning more on the musical side rather than being out and out loud. I just love the 16th for its speakers. In the end I am quite impressed with the sound quality and headphone drive capability of Meizu 16th through 3.5 mm audio jack considering that it still uses an audio codec from an unknown brand like Qualcomm. And I admit the audio codec is of high quality if implemented in high performance mode. Qualcomm deserves credit & also Meizu deserves a pat on their back for bringing to us perhaps the best implementation of Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9341 on a smartphone till date.
 
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Jul 2, 2020 at 9:48 AM Post #3,551 of 5,377
Sony Xperia 1 II most probably uses a Qualcomm audio codec. Can be their flagship Aqstic WCD9341, a dedicated audio chip. Only a proper tear-down will reveal the details. As I found out this audio chip contains a very good DAC section and can produce nearly 1 Vrms at headphone out when implemented in high performance mode.

Last year I bought the Meizu 16th (Meizu 16 in China), which sadly was their last flagship with a headphone jack. At $240 in India, it came with Qualcomm Snapdragon 845 SoC & 8GB RAM. Meizu India provided us a fully Google certified device with Google Playstore (GMS) pre-installed. In short, pretty awesome performance, built quality & assured Google security for its price. In general during certification process, Google just wipes the slate clean with any of the Chinese mobiles and mainly due to security reasons rejects factory installation of half of their China specific apps. On the negative side, we do not get many useful apps which are present on their Chinese ROMs.

Meizu has a rich history of making portable music players before they ventured into smartphones and still today makes some very good quality headphones & earphones. As such the company understands sound quality and many of their previous flagships smartphones came with dedicated DAC solutions. However for 16th, there was no press material indicated anything extraordinary in the audio department. I took for granted it was using some low quality audio codec from Qualcomm. However more I listened music through my Meizu 16th, more I fell in love with this device. One day just for fun I sat down a did some critical listening with some good earphones, and immediately noticed the sound quality is above ordinary through the audio jack. It has to do with both the audio tuning & hardware. I started reasoning my mind how is it possible with Qualcomm codecs and Meizu must have done something special.

After going through some Chinese websites performing detailed tear-downs, I found Meizu 16th was using the highest quality flagship audio codec available from Qualcomm, better known as Aqstic WCD9341. WCD9341 is a dedicated audio chip with ADC, DAC and headphone amplifier built in. It is not just some random low cost audio codec shoved into a Qualcomm power management IC. It supports PCM playback of upto 384 kHz, native DSD steams upto DSD128 and also DoP (DSD over PCM). With an advertised dynamic range of 130 dB & distortion of -109 dB during audio playback the WCD9341 is quite close to ESS ES9218P SABRE (LG's Quad DAC) or Cirrus Logic CS43199 (Vivo NEX S). Digging deeper I found Qualcomm partnered and further tuned their flagship WCD9341 under the guidance given by a group of audiophiles known as "Golden Ears". Qualcomm was then able to create custom digital filters which creates the final sound signature which are generally preferred by audiophiles.

However in real life even if these objective measurements are very close to ESS & Cirrus Logic, there still remains a gap in performance which Qualcomm needs to fill. ESS & Cirrus Logic still are the kings in the smartphone audio segment. In Meizu 16th tear-downs by Chinese media, I found the WCD9341 audio chip sits under its own tiny metal plate cover with graphite & copper shielding on top. So the chip is well isolated from rest of the PCB and other ICs, eliminating a lot of induced noise on the analog stage of WCD9341. Frankly, quite impressed as Meizu shelled more money in the production line to make sure the sound quality remains intact through the 3.5 mm audio jack.

The other fact I noticed on 16th is the power available through audio jack is much higher than similar WCD9341 implementations like in OnePlus 6 (sadly the last OnePlus with audio jack). The OnePlus frankly sounds anemic in comparison, no drive. Meizu seems to have much more power and can drive same headphones much better. This is mostly due a better power supply stage to the audio chip. Going through the spec sheet I found WCD9341 is designed to perform with power anywhere between 6mW to 34mW. In high performance mode it will require all of those 34 mW and maybe Meizu is providing all the power it needs by dedicated power supply rails to WCD9341. On other hand LG's QuadDAC consumes 2.5 times more power at 80mW but provides over 2 Vrms output, more than twice that of WCD9341.

Again, truly impressed by Meizu's dedication for sound quality as I see & hear the difference of the same audio chip with drastically different performance levels between Meizu & OnePlus. The expertise of Meizu in audio tuning also plays a big role here. In actuality it is Meizu's good implementation that makes the WCD9341 shine.

Subjectively, Meizu 16th sound signature more akin to my LG V30+ or Vivo X5Max, which can best be described with words like pristine, neutral & accurate. Just like LG & Vivo, the amount of detail retrieval is very high in this Meizu smartphone. To my tastes WCD9341 is better than anything from AKM stables, be it AKM AK4376 or AK4376A in terms sound quality. Others may vary. Drive capability on my Vivo X9/V5Plus (AKM AK4376) and Meizu 16th is more or less the same.

The default music player provided by Meizu is good and convenient to use but Vivo default iMusic app is better. LG has the best default music player in my opinion. The 16th supports all kinds of PCM audio files however it does not support native DSD playback even though WCD9341 supports it. Meizu music player is unable to play DSD files be it DSD64, DSD128 or DSD256.

Good news is while using USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP) on Meizu 16th, it correctly detects and says "Internal HiRes DAC Detected". However during DSD playback, UAPP performs software decoding from DSD to PCM at 176.4 kHz. This proves both support for native DSD playback using DoP protocol and existence of a direct software audio tunnel to the audio chip are not present on this phone. History reveals Meizu never supported DSD playback. I was not able to distinguish any sound quality improvements on UAPP over default music player when playing high quality PCM files. However I primary use UAPP as it gives me a consistent feel among my multiple devices.

One of the other reasons I bought Meizu 16th was the dual front firing stereo speakers. Each speaker is powered by a dedicated Cirrus Logic CS35L41 mono speaker amplifier, so sound is loud & crisp leaning more on the musical side rather than being out and out loud. I just love the 16th for its speakers. In the end I am quite impressed with the sound quality and headphone drive capability of Meizu 16th through 3.5 mm audio jack considering that it still uses an audio codec from an unknown brand like Qualcomm. And I admit the audio codec is of high quality if implemented in high performance mode. Qualcomm deserves credit & also Meizu deserves a pat on their back for bringing to us perhaps the best implementation of Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9341 on a smartphone till date.

Great write-up, most comprehensive I've seen on the topic anywhere. Now I'm seriously considering getting an Xperia 1ii, it's hard to go back to a refresh rate under 90hz (LG V60). I'm not sure why, but I largely thought that Sony wasn't relevant anymore in the flagship Android space. It's not that much more expensive than a new LG V60, but after selling the second screen and TWS Bluetooth Earbuds you're essentially paying 3x more for the Xperia.
 
Jul 3, 2020 at 1:49 PM Post #3,552 of 5,377
Any suggestion for significant improving quality from the pair of audiotechnica ATH ES10 and vivo xplay5s?

All forums says - no alternative.

I have the best and all i can do is to change tha battery for a new one...
 
Jul 3, 2020 at 3:18 PM Post #3,553 of 5,377
Changing your headphone can be an upgrade ...

First , you need to know what you are looking for sound wise.
Then , choose.

To take advantage of the level of detail / separation of Xplay 5S , you should go for more analytical sounding , or monitoring sound : Audio Technica MSR7 / Focal Listen Pro ...
 
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Jul 3, 2020 at 8:49 PM Post #3,554 of 5,377
Any suggestion for significant improving quality from the pair of audiotechnica ATH ES10 and vivo xplay5s?

All forums says - no alternative.

I have the best and all i can do is to change tha battery for a new one...

Yes change the headphone.
 
Jul 4, 2020 at 9:22 AM Post #3,555 of 5,377
Focal Listen Pro is nearly twice expensive than audiotechnika msr7b, but have only 5-22000, while other have 5-50000
Why?
Is sensibility matters ?

101 / 122 db?

And my ATH ES10 cost 4 times expensive than MSR7!
 
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