Best Smartphone for audiophile Part II (Updated: Jan 2020)

[simon740]

Ibasso sr1 is great even with smartphone.

Thank you. I will check.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Have u tested the Drop + Panda? A little time ago i was lookkng at BT headset's and the 2 i looked into was Drop + Panda and Audeze Mobius. Was very keen on the mobius cause of all the features etc. But quite a fee said that it was a headset you wont go outdoor's with. And i dont need the gaming stuff. And the price is still quite high up here.

The Panda seems great, but since i had to put money upfront many months before release and it will end up quite pricey 399 usd + shipping to Norway+ Vat 25%+ etc= around 565 usd!. So i thought if i could spend the same amount in the used market now, what will i get?

Then suddenly a guy here in Norway was going to sell his Oppo PM-3. He wanted 375 usd for it so i ignored his ad for a while.. after some time the ad was still up( most people here want beats, BT sets like Xm3, B&O H9, BW p9 etc) so i got in touch with him. And he was a friend of a friend. So i ended up paying around 160+ a iem i almost never used. thought that was a good deal.

Btw, This is very subjective but Oratory is a fan of PM3 and he also had the panda for test and ge said that the Pm3 was much better , measured better if i remember right. So i need to wait until it gets cheaper. But cables aren't a problem for me.

Thanks for the feedback. No I haven't heard the Drop +, that is why I said it was an educated guess. I like to hear many impressions about a headphone. I can't tell you how often I read that person x thought headphone y was sub par and that headphone b was better than headphone y, but when I listen to it myself I end up liking what I hear.

My reasoning behind my suggestion is that I know the technological underpinnings of the headphone stems from really solid pedigree in the Oppo designs. I also know that amplification modules that conform to THX specifications are widely accepted to perform very well by both objective and subjective measures. For instance I have the FiiO AM3D THX amp module installed on my Q5s and my experience with it is very positive. I have been driving several headphones using the Q5s/AM3D very successfully.

Finally, Drop has demonstrated good judgment in their design and design collaboration abilities and there are literally thousands of data points that suggest Drop tuned gear is on par with other gear being produced for the market.

So yes, all of that taken together is still just a guess, but I think it is an educated guess and reasonable. This isn't my first rodeo so to speak, but I do acknowledge that until you have heard something yourself, you really can't be certain. Again, note that I suggested you consider the Drop + meaning do research and ideally listen first if possible. I generally do not give blind recommendations but I stand behind what I said and feel the Drop + should be a very solid sound signature with excellent Bluetooth implementation. Regardless if I am correct in that guess, not everybody will like it, just as some people do not enjoy the Utopia, for example.

 

[W1ll1eTheP1mp]

a) ESS ES9218P SABRE (LG's QuadDAC, 2nd Gen)

Specs:
1) Supports playback of upto 32-bit 384kHz PCM and DSD256 audio files.
2) SNR: 130 dB
3) THD+N: -114 dB
4) Integrated headphone amplifier can output upto 2 Vrms.

Used in: LG V20, G6/G6+, V30/V30+, G7/G7+, V40, G8, V50, G8X/ V50S

b) ESS ES9219 (LG's QuadDAC, 3rd Gen)

Specs:
1) Supports playback of upto 32-bit 384kHz PCM and DSD512 audio files.
2) SNR: 130 dB
3) THD+N: -114 dB
4) Integrated headphone amplifier can output upto 2 Vrms.
5) New improvements where made to reduce BOM size and cost of SoC

Used in: V60

In the end I believe the their are negligible performance improvements if any, but ESS was able to reduce cost of the chip while maintaining same performance levels. However I do not own a V60, so cannot confirm.

They seems just the same.. hmm,then u am very happy that i didnt spent more cash. Btw, do you know how much power v40 can deliver to headset? Like max ohm and max sensitivity ?

 

[W1ll1eTheP1mp]

Thanks for the feedback. No I haven't heard the Drop +, that is why I said it was an educated guess. I like to hear many impressions about a headphone. I can't tell you how often I read that person x thought headphone y was sub par and that headphone b was better than headphone y, but when I listen to it myself I end up liking what I hear.

My reasoning behind my suggestion is that I know the technological underpinnings of the headphone stems from really solid pedigree in the Oppo designs. I also know that amplification modules that conform to THX specifications are widely accepted to perform very well by both objective and subjective measures. For instance I have the FiiO AM3D THX amp module installed on my Q5s and my experience with it is very positive. I have been driving several headphones using the Q5s/AM3D very successfully.

Finally, Drop has demonstrated good judgment in their design and design collaboration abilities and there are literally thousands of data points that suggest Drop tuned gear is on par with other gear being produced for the market.

So yes, all of that taken together is still just a guess, but I think it is an educated guess and reasonable. This isn't my first rodeo so to speak, but I do acknowledge that until you have heard something yourself, you really can't be certain. Again, note that I suggested you consider the Drop + meaning do research and ideally listen first if possible. I generally do not give blind recommendations but I stand behind what I said and feel the Drop + should be a very solid sound signature with excellent Bluetooth implementation. Regardless if I am correct in that guess, not everybody will like it, just as some people do not enjoy the Utopia, for example.

I hope its good though! If i am gonna get a BT headphone it will prob be that or the new Audeze BT they are talking about..

I didnt mean to say anything negative about it. It was just that it didnt sound very similiar the Pm3 back then. I have seem the FR curve for it. BUT it wasnt the finished product though. It was semt out so people could give their opinions about it etc. Very cool they did that! They ship in the end of august? Excited for the reviews!

 

[Chris Kaoss]

From Ohm's law, the V-series puts out nearly 120mW into 32 Ohms, if i remember right.
But keep in mind that it's not all that.
While low impedance headphone ask for current, high impedance headphones will ask for voltage to bring the best out of them.
According to the 2V on High impedance mode of the V-Series, you're able to drive such monsters like T1 (600Ohm), but the T1 needs nearly 13Volt to reach its summit.
It also plays a hugh part if it is a planar or a dynamic headphone.
While planars mostly are death flat on impedance, dynamics impedance tend to change throughout the whole frequency range.
The T1, for example, reach an incredible high impedance of higher than 1300Ohm in the range of 100Hz.
There aren't many headphones out there with a higher impedance swing, but they do exist.
Though, the T1 is driveable from the V-series, sqeezing out normal listening volume on level 75, due to its high sensitivity of 102 db/mW only.

But to take the weight off of you, the PM-3 is another story with its 26 ohm and 102 db/mW.

All the best.
Chris

 

[Chris Kaoss]

I hope its good though! If i am gonna get a BT headphone it will prob be that or the new Audeze BT they are talking about..

I didnt mean to say anything negative about it. It was just that it didnt sound very similiar the Pm3 back then. I have seem the FR curve for it. BUT it wasnt the finished product though. It was semt out so people could give their opinions about it etc. Very cool they did that! They ship in the end of august? Excited for the reviews!

Once the Drop Panda is on sale, i'll pick them immediately.
Whatever it takes.

 

[W1ll1eTheP1mp]

From Ohm's law, the V-series puts out nearly 120mW into 32 Ohms, if i remember right.
But keep in mind that it's not all that.
While low impedance headphone ask for current, high impedance headphones will ask for voltage to bring the best out of them.
According to the 2V on High impedance mode of the V-Series, you're able to drive such monsters like T1 (600Ohm), but the T1 needs nearly 13Volt to reach its summit.
It also plays a hugh part if it is a planar or a dynamic headphone.
While planars mostly are death flat on impedance, dynamics impedance tend to change throughout the whole frequency range.
The T1, for example, reach an incredible high impedance of higher than 1300Ohm in the range of 100Hz.
There aren't many headphones out there with a higher impedance swing, but they do exist.
Though, the T1 is driveable from the V-series, sqeezing out normal listening volume on level 75, due to its high sensitivity of 102 db/mW only.

But to take the weight off of you, the PM-3 is another story with its 26 ohm and 102 db/mW.

All the best.
Chris

Thanks! I actually have 2 year school in electronics( 17 years ago).Need to refresh ohms law. Embarassing.

The pm3 will be good. I was thinking about f. ex :
Verum one
Hifiman sundara
Lcd-2
Quad- era
Fostex t50/ modhouse argon mk3
Aeon 2

These are some open(fostex semi) planars ive been looking at. Havent decided anything yet, but as i think now it would be cool if the open planar could be portable and be driven with V40! A portable openback is probably a stupid criteria( portable in size/weight) since i got my pm3 though.

For dynamics idk yet. Only looked at the drop Sennheisers 58x,6xx etc and Focal's.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Thanks! I actually have 2 year school in electronics( 17 years ago).Need to refresh ohms law. Embarassing.

The pm3 will be good. I was thinking about f. ex :
Verum one
Hifiman sundara
Lcd-2
Quad- era
Fostex t50/ modhouse argon mk3
Aeon 2

These are some open(fostex semi) planars ive been looking at. Havent decided anything yet, but as i think now it would be cool if the open planar could be portable and be driven with V40! A portable openback is probably a stupid criteria( portable in size/weight) since i got my pm3 though.

For dynamics idk yet. Only looked at the drop Sennheisers 58x,6xx etc and Focal's.

I'm eyeing on the Verum 1 too.
It'll be my next purchase before the Panda heads up, i guess.

Verum 1 is a 8 ohm full size planar.
Curious how it will perform on several amps bc of this very low impedance.
I hope my V30 will drive them well and it's gonna be an interesting task to hear them on my R 28 as well.

Is anyone here who has knowledge with such low impedance head(ear)phones?

 

[asrockung]

How about Vivo Nex3?

 

[Sonic Defender]

I'm eyeing on the Verum 1 too.
It'll be my next purchase before the Panda heads up, i guess.

Verum 1 is a 8 ohm full size planar.
Curious how it will perform on several amps bc of this very low impedance.
I hope my V30 will drive them well and it's gonna be an interesting task to hear them on my R 28 as well.

Is anyone here who has knowledge with such low impedance head(ear)phones?

The flatter the impedance response of a headphone the less effect any possible impedance mismatch with an amplifier will have. Typically planar designs have decent impedance responses. I have heard the Verum One driven by the 4.4mm input on my AM3D module, but if I remember the output impedance is under 2ohms, probably less than 1ohm. I'll have to revisit the specifications.

 

[RishiGuru]

How about Vivo Nex3?

Vivo was the pioneer to bring HiFi audio in smartphones, long before LG entered the scene. However lately none of their models excites me anymore, the last being the Vivo NEX (Vivo NEX S in China) of 2018. As a music lover I have had the privilege to try many of their models like Vivo Y27L, Vivo V1, Vivo V1Max, Vivo V3Max, Vivo V5Plus (X9 in China), Vivo X5Max, Vivo X5Pro, Vivo X21 & Vivo NEX readily made available here by Vivo India. While all these models had some sort of dedicated DAC solutions, I have sold most of them while keeping the jems in between. So my current collection consists of:

1) Vivo Y27L (AKM dac): Kept just because if its ultra compact size.

2) Vivo X5Max (ESS dac): Great audio quality, slimmest phone in the world, AMOLED display, flagship built quality. In China considered one of the best sounding smartphones of it's era.

3) Vivo V5Plus (AKM dac): The last V series phone that was not made out of junk plastic. Good audio quality, great built quality, a refined product with good battery life.

4) Vivo NEX (Cirrus Logic dac): NEX series is a touch above their Xplay series, surpassing anything they had made till 2018 in terms of both quality & price. The only other Vivo available in our country that could be on par to X5Max in audio quality while having a drastically different sound signature and in having much more headphone drive capability. The NEX & Xplay 6 are still considered the finest sounding smartphones that came out of China with support for native DSD playback. None of its successors could beat them in terms of audio quality over headphone jack.

Two other Vivo's worthy of mention (alas, not available in India) are:
1) Vivo Xpay 5s
2) Vivo Xplay 6

I was very keen on Xplay 6 due to native DSD playback capability, even once considered importing from China but then changed my mind due to lack of Google certification. Coming back to your question, Vivo NEX 3 comes with an audio jack (a honorary mention in current flagship phones) and a respectable dedicated AKM AK4377A DAC.

Vivo generally used to divide DAC implementations like:

1) Flagship phones : ESS or Cirrus Logic DAC implementations. Elaborate audio circuit designs were used, aptly named HiFi 2.0 and even HiFi 3.0. These designs were discrete designs with dedicated power supply. The power rail is drawn straight from the battery and then conditioned (voltage regulated) to feed the DAC and operational amplifiers. Phones like X5Max, Xplay 6 & NEX falls under HiFi 2.0 category. The only phone that used HiFi 3.0 design scheme was Xplay 5s, two ESS DACs one per channel in differential mode.

2) Mid-range phones: Used HiFi 1.0 design scheme which is a cost effective one chip integrated custom solution. AKM entered the scene with:
a) AKM AK4375: Vivo Y27L, Vivo V1Max, Vivo V3Max
b) AKM AK4376: Vivo V5Plus, Vivo V7 Plus
c) AKM AK4376A: Vivo X21
d) AKM AK4377A: Vivo NEX 3, iQOO 3 (Vivo's sub brand)

3) Budget phones: Qualcomm/ Mediatek audio codec solutions.

I have tried multiple Vivo smartphones with AKM solution and they are much superior than any Qualcomm/ Mediatek/ Exynos/ HiSilicon audio codec solutions till date in terms of audio fidelity and headphone drive power. In my ears, only two flagship audio codecs (discrete audio chip) from Qualcomm when implemented in high performance mode were able to beat AKMs:

a) Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9340
b) Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9341 (additional native DSD playback support over WCD9340)

In my Meizu 16th (Meizu 16 in China), their last flagship with an audio jack, the WCD9341 is implemented in high performance mode. Audio resolution & detail seems noticeably better in my ears and also headphone drivability is better. But Meizu as a manufacturer has a long history in audio, so they know how to tune the WCD9341 and wring the maximum out of it. The OnePlus 6 came with same WCD9341 implemented in low performance mode and sounded anemic at best.

All AKMs sounds the same with negligible performance improvements. For any average smartphone buyer this is more than enough. But there is a big performance gap to the ESS & Cirrus Logic solutions. In A/ B comparison test this became self evident to me.

So yeah day-by-day smartphone manufactures are progressing in eliminating our beloved audio jack from their flagship devices, while Vivo HiFi pedigree gets slowly downgraded as 95% of all smartphone consumers don't properly understand audio fidelity. So as an answer for your question, Vivo NEX 3 is an excellent flagship but not from the audio front. Will I buy it? No.

Recently, Vivo released the X50 Pro+ in China which comes with Cirrus Logic CS43131. Wait for it, analogue audio-out is through STUPID USB-C port. No headphone jack!!!

If we consider Vivo NEX (Cirrus Logic CS43199) specs:

1) Dynamic Range: 130 dB
2) THD+N: -115 dB
3) Native DSD payback support: Yes
4) Audio playback support:
a) PCM: Upto 32-bit 384 kHz,
b) DSD to PCM (software decoded): DSD64, DSD128, DSD256
c) DSD to direct DAC (hardware decoded, native DSD playback): DSD64
5) Headphone max output power: 2 Vrms

The newly launched X50 Pro+ comes with newer Cirrus Logic CS43131, a slight downgrade from NEX's CS43199 implementation. Both DAC's have same SNR, THD+N & max output power of 2 Vrms as per Vivo, but something is missing for sure as the newer chip numbering CS43131 is lower than NEX's CS43199. Maybe native DSD playback support is missing on X50 Pro+, a niche and very rare feature among smartphones and loved to the core by audiophiles.

 

[asrockung]

Thanks for your reply.

I still keep Xplay6 in my collection.

 

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

Vivo was the pioneer to bring HiFi audio in smartphones, long before LG entered the scene. However lately none of their models excites me anymore, the last being the Vivo NEX (Vivo NEX S in China) of 2018. As a music lover I have had the privilege to try many of their models like Vivo Y27L, Vivo V1, Vivo V1Max, Vivo V3Max, Vivo V5Plus (X9 in China), Vivo X5Max, Vivo X5Pro, Vivo X21 & Vivo NEX readily made available here by Vivo India. While all these models had some sort of dedicated DAC solutions, I have sold most of them while keeping the jems in between. So my current collection consists of:

1) Vivo Y27L (AKM dac): Kept just because if its ultra compact size.

2) Vivo X5Max (ESS dac): Great audio quality, slimmest phone in the world, AMOLED display, flagship built quality. In China considered one of the best sounding smartphones of it's era.

3) Vivo V5Plus (AKM dac): The last V series phone that was not made out of junk plastic. Good audio quality, great built quality, a refined product with good battery life.

4) Vivo NEX (Cirrus Logic dac): NEX series is a touch above their Xplay series, surpassing anything they had made till 2018 in terms of both quality & price. The only other Vivo available in our country that could be on par to X5Max in audio quality while having a drastically different sound signature and in having much more headphone drive capability. The NEX & Xplay 6 are still considered the finest sounding smartphones that came out of China with support for native DSD playback. None of its successors could beat them in terms of audio quality over headphone jack.

Two other Vivo's worthy of mention (alas, not available in India) are:
1) Vivo Xpay 5s
2) Vivo Xplay 6

I was very keen on Xplay 6 due to native DSD playback capability, even once considered importing from China but then changed my mind due to lack of Google certification. Coming back to your question, Vivo NEX 3 comes with an audio jack (a honorary mention in current flagship phones) and a respectable dedicated AKM AK4377A DAC.

Vivo generally used to divide DAC implementations like:

1) Flagship phones : ESS or Cirrus Logic DAC implementations. Elaborate audio circuit designs were used, aptly named HiFi 2.0 and even HiFi 3.0. These designs were discrete designs with dedicated power supply. The power rail is drawn straight from the battery and then conditioned (voltage regulated) to feed the DAC and operational amplifiers. Phones like X5Max, Xplay 6 & NEX falls under HiFi 2.0 category. The only phone that used HiFi 3.0 design scheme was Xplay 5s, two ESS DACs one per channel in differential mode.

2) Mid-range phones: Used HiFi 1.0 design scheme which is a cost effective one chip integrated custom solution. AKM entered the scene with:
a) AKM AK4375: Vivo Y27L, Vivo V1Max, Vivo V3Max
b) AKM AK4376: Vivo V5Plus, Vivo V7 Plus
c) AKM AK4376A: Vivo X21
d) AKM AK4377A: Vivo NEX 3, iQOO 3 (Vivo's sub brand)

3) Budget phones: Qualcomm/ Mediatek audio codec solutions.

I have tried multiple Vivo smartphones with AKM solution and they are much superior than any Qualcomm/ Mediatek/ Exynos/ HiSilicon audio codec solutions till date in terms of audio fidelity and headphone drive power. In my ears, only with two flagship audio codecs from Qualcomm when implemented in high performance mode was able to beat AKMs:

a) Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9340
b) Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9341 (additional native DSD playback support over WCD9340)

In my Meizu 16th (Meizu 16 in China), their last flagship with an audio jack, the WCD9341 is implemented in high performance mode. Audio resolution & detail seems noticeably better in my ears and also headphone divisibility is better. But Meizu as a manufacturer has a long history in audio, so they know how to tune the WCD9341 and wring the maximum out of it. The OnePlus 6 came with same WCD9341 implemented in low performance mode and sounded anemic at best.

All AKMs sounds the same with negligible performance improvements. For any average smartphone buyer this is more than enough. But there is a big performance gap to the ESS & Cirrus Logic solutions. In A/ B comparison test this became self evident to me.

So yeah day- by-day smartphone manufactures are progressing in eliminating our beloved audio jack from their flagship devices, while Vivo HiFi pedigree is slowly downgraded as 95% of all their smartphone consumers don't properly understand audio fidelity. So as an answer for your question, Vivo NEX 3 is an excellent flagship but not from the audio front. Will I buy it? No.

Recently, Vivo released the X50 Pro+ in China which comes with Cirrus Logic CS43131. Wait for it, analogue audio-out is through STUPID USB-C port. No headphone jack!!!

If we consider Vivo NEX (Cirrus Logic CS43199) specs:

1) Dynamic Range: 130 dB
2) THD+N: -115 dB
3) Native DSD payback support: Yes
4) Audio playback support: Upto 32-bit 384 kHz PCM, DSD64
5) Headphone max output power: 2 Vrms

The newly launched X50 Pro+ comes with newer Cirrus Logic CS43131, a slight downgrade from NEX's CS43199 implementation. Both DAC's have same SNR, THD+N & max output power of 2 Vrms as per Vivo, but something is missing for sure as the newer chip numbering CS43131 is lower than NEX's CS43199. Maybe native DSD playback support is missing on X50 Pro+, a niche and very rare feature among smartphones and loved to the core by audiophiles.

To think that the entry-level LG phone X4+ 2018 was an AK4376a DAC and sounds very clean and drives AKG K240 easily.45 out of 75 volume steps.

 

[RishiGuru]

Thanks for your reply.

I still keep Xplay6 in my collection.

Which phones you have in your collection?

The Vivo Xplay 6 is no doubt a great audio centric phone. Was it readily available in your country?

 

[Hyperfluxe]

Might be a dumb question but would the two following setups be similar in terms of sound quality?

1. LG V60 + Audiosense T800 (Azla Sedna Eartips and ISN Audio S16 cable) + Tidal HiFi

2. OnePlus8 Pro + Meizu Hifi Pro DAC (USB-C to 3.5mm dongle) + same Audiosense T800 setup and Tidal HiFi with proper UAPP use.

I'm basically wondering if a high-end USB-C dongle HiFi DAC can replace LG flagships Quad HiFi DACs. I would rather have a OnePlus 8 Pro as my flagship Android device than the LG V60, but only if something like the Meizu HiFi Pro DAC is as good as LG flagship DACs.

My second factor impacting my decision is portability and general invasiveness: is it annoying to have a USB-C DAC dongle sticking out of your phone (in terms of weight and length) vs just plugging in your IEMs in a headphone jack? I can't quite tell, it seems like it's a small extension of your cable length at a cursory glance.