[boclcown]

There isn't a place for mentioning Eminem in a discussion of best rapper.

 

[pow3rtr1p]

Which shows you're just acting pretentious for being more underground than other people, and not admitting that his wordplay and lyricism are practically unmatched...

 

[bridge8989]

Quote:

I really think Eminem is the in the best shape of his life right now. His lyrics have more depth than "Slim Shady" or "Marshall Mathers" LPs, but he still has that same flow, finally returning from the dug-induced stupor of Encore...
 

NO. Marshall Mathers is a masterpiece. Recovery sounds like the generic crap the music industry churns out every month.  If you honestly think that anything on Recovery has more depth than Marshall Mathers/Slim Shady/Eminem Show something is wrong.

 

[pow3rtr1p]

OK, he's more mature now then he was. We can at least say that. Lyrics have real depth, talking about cleaning up, talking about Proof, talking about his daughters, all that hard stuff.
 
I guess saying it was better than Marshall Mathers was too much, but probably more mature. His early stuff was either goofy, or angry, and not a lot in between. 

 

[boclcown]

Quote:

Which shows you're just acting pretentious for being more underground than other people, and not admitting that his wordplay and lyricism are practically unmatched...

false
 
None of the rappers I've mentioned are "underground."
 
I'm not disputing that Eminem has good wordplay and lyricism, but I am disputing that they are unmatched.

 

[bridge8989]

Quote:

OK, he's more mature now then he was. We can at least say that. Lyrics have real depth, talking about cleaning up, talking about Proof, talking about his daughters, all that hard stuff.
 
I guess saying it was better than Marshall Mathers was too much, but probably more mature. His early stuff was either goofy, or angry, and not a lot in between. 

 
In other words, he sold out and lost his wit/personality.  Eminem's lyrics were amazing because his lyrics were controversial and disturbing.  Steve Berman (Marshall Mathers skit) - "[Dre]'s rappin' about big-screen tv's, blunts, 40's and b****es.  You're rappin' about homosexuals and Vicadin."
 
imo I'll rather listen to him rap about crazy fans (stan), fantasize about killing kim, than him b*tching to mariah and making radio friendly crap (Not Afraid).  also he's been rapping about his daughter before recovery/relapse, "Hailies Song" from eminem show.
 
Quote:

false  
None of the rappers I've mentioned are "underground."

lol i just looked at your list and if this guy doesn't know who those rappers are he's probably getting his music from the just the crap they play on the radio.  Anything not on the radio is considered "underground" to some people I know lol. 

 

[pow3rtr1p]

I haven't listened to a radio in 5 years +. When I said "underground" I didn't necessarily mean backpackers or true underground, but stuff that doesn't get heavy radio play. My Hip Hop collection consists of The Roots, Talib Kweli, Eyedea & Abilities, Eminem, Atmosphere, Mos Def, Crooked I, Immortal Technique, etc.
 
My main argument was that lyrically, I think Eminem is spitting some of the best stuff he's done, subject matter aside. Just check out his Tim Westwood "Freestyle". I know it has to be mainly writtens, but it's crazy. Also, "Won't Back Down" and the Hidden Track "Here We Go" are two truly great songs.
 
It just seems when people get into arguments about certain genres (particularly Hip Hop and Indie Rock) people just try to go as obscure as possible and get pretentious with everyone else who isn't as obscure.
 
Let's all just agree to hate Lil' Wayne, and get over this whole silly spat.

 

[TheWuss]

Quote:

 My Hip Hop collection consists of The Roots, Talib Kweli, Eyedea & Abilities, Eminem, Atmosphere, Mos Def, Crooked I, Immortal Technique, etc.
 

our hip hop collections look pretty similar. 

and, i absolutely abhor radio hip hop.  it's repetitive, and lacks imagination.

 

[Vincent01]

Quote:

 
Let's all just agree to hate Lil' Wayne, 

Waiting to get out of the jail...he must have tons of lyrics now. 

 

[TheWuss]

Quote:

Waiting to get out of the jail...he must have tons of lyrics now. 

that's what T.I. did. 

 

[mistat0m]

Z-Ro

 

[boclcown]

Quote:

 
Let's all just agree to hate Lil' Wayne, and get over this whole silly spat.

I can't do that. Honestly, Lil Wayne may be an idiot sometimes, but when hes on he is a beast. His recent releases all have some really crappy songs, but they also have a lot of gems. I'd say Lil Wayne is better than Eminem. 

 

[pow3rtr1p]

Watch both of their Westwood freestyles. You'll change your mind.

 

[Curly21029]

Kudos to whoever cited Aesop Rock.  One of the more recognizable voices in contemporary hip-hop.
 
Quote:

Which shows you're just acting pretentious for being more underground than other people, and not admitting that his wordplay and lyricism are practically unmatched...
 
It just seems when people get into arguments about certain genres (particularly Hip Hop and Indie Rock) people just try to go as obscure as possible and get pretentious with everyone else who isn't as obscure.

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but that's a weak defense.  The fact is that, generally speaking, the more mainstream music is the less it has to offer in terms of quality.  Commercial radio is a business and, as such, it needs a constantly revolving inventory.  The easiest way to do this is by perpetuating a standard of mediocrity.  If the consumer base has low expectations the product will be easy to produce, market, and move off the shelves. (hence why the garbage that Ace of Base churned out in the 90s is still viable in 2010, albeit rebranded as "Lady Gaga")  True creativity, talent, and skill are liabilities to the major labels' shared business model that was perfected throughout the 80s and 90s.  While some truly remarkable artists have released records on a major label, they were mere blips on the commercial radar and were mainly utilized to grab a share of the revenue from an already established fanbase.  Eminem could be considered (one of) the best of the worst, but nothing more.  With that said, personal taste and judging purely on merit can be two radically different things.  I respect your opinion and enjoy a few of the acts you've listed quite a bit. (Mos Def, The Roots, Talib Kweli)
 
Picking a "best rapper" out of the droves of emcees populating modern music is impossible.  For example, you can judge based on tangibles like speed and breath control, but things like flow and lyricism are rated by personal preference.  I'll try to touch on both facets to the best of my ability.
 
So, speed.  There's plenty of guys out there.  Twista and Tonedeff come to mind as two of the fastest, but they offer up sub-standard breath control (not bad mind you, but not sufficient to be dubbed "best") that leads to plenty of indistinct verbiage and, in my opinion, neither's flow nor lyrics (for the most part) do anything for me.  On the same level speed-wise, however, is Tech N9ne: one of the biggest wasted talents in hip-hop.  When he's on, he's on.
 

 
He has the speed of the aforementioned two but with better breath control and turn-on-a-dime segues.  In addition, his flow is typically slick, he provides some nice impact in his vocalization, and his more off the wall or conceptual tracks can be hugely entertaining.  With all he has going for him, it's a shame that his efforts are so inconsistent.  Anghellic and Absolute Power both have enough going for them that I could call them decent albums, but every other release only contains one or two worthwhile tracks.  As time went on, he also aligned himself with lowest common denominator trash.
 
Because of the aforementioned consistency issues, I'd give Abdominal the nod over Tech N9ne for overall emcee ability.
 

 
He's certainly not the fastest overall, but he's still plenty nimble.  In contrast to other rappers who are speed-capable, his flow favors smooth delivery over rapid-fire attack and his pacing transitions seem more poised and natural.  All this lends itself well to a technical presentation.  Most of the stuff that Abs did with DJ Format is pretty spectacular.  This type of production carried over into his solo material and gave his output as a whole a bit of that old-school 'X' factor.  Lyrically, however, it's all pretty one-dimensional.  To put it simply, Abs likes to talk about himself.  He readily acknowledges it, though, and maintains a deep vocabulary and regularly utilizes vocal acrobatics and clever wordplay.
 
Another emcee who talks plenty about himself is Esoteric.
 

 
Much of his lyrics come off as tough-guy rhetoric from a pop culture junky, but when he has a point to make few do it better.  He's also an extremely versatile collaborator.
 

 
Another thing that I give Eso points for is originality.  Production-wise, he's made some ballsy moves.  Putting out albums like Egoclapper are a quick way to lose a fickle audience, but I'd rate it as an absolute success of self-indulgence.
 
I know this is supposed to be the a thread about the best current rapper, but I can't mention production and not touch on Alias.
 

 
He used to MC and produce, but he gave up rapping to focus (almost) solely on production.  While I love most of his work, it's really a shame.  As an abstract hip-hop artist, his skillset is really top-notch.  An engaging delivery coupled with thought-provoking lyrics and thick, atmospheric production really made for something special.  Don't miss The Other Side of the Looking Glass.
 
For a well-rounded act with no apparent weaknesses and mass-appeal, I'd probably go with P.O.S.
 

 
Poppy production, a strong flow and varied subject matter.  This is the kind of stuff that SHOULD be getting played during rush hour.  Don't get me wrong, I take nothing away from his artistic merits, but the accessibility of the overall package is undeniable.  Oh, and his more nerdy leanings appeal to me personally.
 
On an overall artistic level as well as a purely personal choice, I'm citing Dälek.
 

 
Equal parts production and vocalization that transcends both to something more.  Thick, gritty atmosphere, turntablism, and deliberate beats give way to topical lyrics delivered via focused emotion.  It's all deep seeded in tradition but still manages to maintain a distinct identity.  To my ears, nothing else in music sounds like Dälek.  As a matter of fact, Absence was the only hip-hop album to make my "Top Ten of the Decade" list.  The Oktopus and MC Dälek have created, in my opinion, the most fascinating project in contemporary hip-hop.

 

[Surreal.]

Nice post. Good call on bringing Eso and P.O.S to the thread. Getting some people on AOTP and Rhymesayers is always good.
 
Used to rotate AOTP pretty hard but I got tired of what you called the tough guy rhetoric, self-promoting verses, religious topics, etc. Though a Stoupe and Esoteric track is always bound to be on point. 
 
To be honest I've never heard of Dälek, I'll give them a listen. Sounds like something I'll appreciate though. Thanks.