[Quinto]

Paul Lewis is nice, but his piano play does nothing for me..

 

[uchihaitachi]

The word 'nice' pretty much sums up his playing

 

[CanadianMaestro]

What exactly is a "cadenza" for? My understanding is that a cadenza was a stretch of piano playing that was purely improvisatory -- so that the pianist could show his/her audience what s/he was "made of".  Mozart and Beethoven used cadenzas to show off their keyboard prowess to the Viennese. Is that accurate?
 
How many of Mozart/Beethoven's cadenzas have actually survived on paper? Or were they done mostly "at the moment", on whim?

 

[Light - Man]

  What exactly is a "cadenza" for? My understanding is that a cadenza was a stretch of piano playing that was purely improvisatory -- so that the pianist could show his/her audience what s/he was "made of".  Mozart and Beethoven used cadenzas to show off their keyboard prowess to the Viennese. Is that accurate?
 
How many of Mozart/Beethoven's cadenzas have actually survived on paper? Or were they done mostly "at the moment", on whim?

Very interesting question, but I know you know you are barking up the wrong tree for me to know!

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  Very interesting question, but I know you know you are barking up the wrong tree for me to know!

Why's that? 

 

[RRod]

  What exactly is a "cadenza" for? My understanding is that a cadenza was a stretch of piano playing that was purely improvisatory -- so that the pianist could show his/her audience what s/he was "made of".  Mozart and Beethoven used cadenzas to show off their keyboard prowess to the Viennese. Is that accurate?
 
How many of Mozart/Beethoven's cadenzas have actually survived on paper? Or were they done mostly "at the moment", on whim?

 
Mozart has a few examples of written out cadenzas, probably most famously the duo cadenzas for the Sinfonia Concertante (where writing it out assures a more consistent effect than leaving it to the chance of a doubly-improvised version). In one of his lectures Robert Levin shows a few written-out cadenzas Mozart made for a specific student as a "guide" to improvisation in his sonatas. I'll try to find it.
 
Beethoven has at least the piano + timpani cadenza for his violin concerto transcription. Not sure what else, but perhaps some of his earlier stuff has something attached.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

^  Thanks.   I have the box set for Beeth's piano concerti, with Schiff/Haitink Dresden. It states that Schiff performs with all Beeth's cadenzas. So, LvB must have left behind cads on those manuscript scores? Or somebody "reconstructed" them?

 

[CanadianMaestro]

Ah, found some useful info here. Beeth did indeed write out cadenzas for his piano ctos.
 
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/02/classical-cadenzas/35353/

 

[uchihaitachi]

  Ah, found some useful info here. Beeth did indeed write out cadenzas for his piano ctos.
 
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/02/classical-cadenzas/35353/

Beethoven did, Liszt did too (but wrote that the performer can if he wants especially for his solo repertoire)
 
I think mozart did too, I can't find my urtext copies of his concerti

 

[RRod]

To me the cadenza is great when the performer uses it to both show off some skills (that don't detract too much from seriousness) and to add his own take, maybe even a quirky one, on the content of the concerto. Violinists just defaulting to whatever Joachim cadenza doesn't really do much for me.

 

[kostaszag]

On the subject of cadenzas: I listened to the recent recording of the Brahms violin concerto with Bathiasvili and Thielemann, a nice disc btw.The first movement cadenza is by Buzoni and  includes timpani too, which I have never heard before on this concerto. An interesting and refreshing effect.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

A bit darker and more serious than the usual suspects like Pires and Uchida, but still fascinating:
 

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  To me the cadenza is great when the performer uses it to both show off some skills (that don't detract too much from seriousness) and to add his own take, maybe even a quirky one, on the content of the concerto. Violinists just defaulting to whatever Joachim cadenza doesn't really do much for me.

Apparently, Gould's Beethoven sonatas, and perhaps his Mozart sonatas too, were marked by his own "cadenzas", tempi, etc. I could be wrong, though. I just can't listen to his Mozart. And his Beeth tests my stamina. I guess I'm too conditioned to the likes of Brendel, Kempff, Arrau for the Beeth.

 

[Quinto]

 
Apparently, Gould's Beethoven sonatas, and perhaps his Mozart sonatas too, were marked by his own "cadenzas", tempi, etc. I could be wrong, though. I just can't listen to his Mozart. And his Beeth tests my stamina. I guess I'm too conditioned to the likes of Brendel, Kempff, Arrau for the Beeth.

Gould did what Mozart and Beethoven did..play with creative freedom..petty you don't like it.. I think it can be refreshing

 

[RRod]

 
Apparently, Gould's Beethoven sonatas, and perhaps his Mozart sonatas too, were marked by his own "cadenzas", tempi, etc. I could be wrong, though. I just can't listen to his Mozart. And his Beeth tests my stamina. I guess I'm too conditioned to the likes of Brendel, Kempff, Arrau for the Beeth.

 
You mean you're too used to the actual pieces of music and not Gould's troll-to-make-a-point-and-fulfill-my-contract transcriptions?

 
Gould did what Mozart and Beethoven did..play with creative freedom..petty you don't like it.. I think it can be refreshing

 
Creative freedom is what someone like Levin is going for. Where Gould sees banality in simplicity, Levin just sees a missing element of improvisation. So the former hacks tempi and emphasizes the bass to make a point, whereas the latter adds embellishment but keeps to the philosophy of the music. I know which one I prefer, and I get to do my own humming as well.