Best "audiophile" setups for commercial air travel

Best headphones for using for commercial air travel

  • Noise-canceling headphones

    Votes: 11 26.2%
  • IEMs

    Votes: 28 66.7%
  • Closed-back, high-quality headphones

    Votes: 7 16.7%

  • Total voters
    42
Jan 18, 2020 at 12:22 PM Post #16 of 76
...for a bluetooth ANC setup, the only practical advantage of a DAP is for battery life and user interface, areas in which Sony has little competition.

For what it's worth, I do no use Bluetooth, except when watching video from my iPhone. For music, I always connect with the 3.5mm wire. I'm not opposed to the extra inconvenience of wire-fidgeting to achieve best quality.

This brings up another interesting point that I would otherwise have been interested to explore in a standalone thread; although, I'm sure it's been beat to death, elsewhere, already. If I understand Bluetooth technology correctly, using any high-end sending Bluetooth device makes no sense to me. You're sending a data file across a wireless airwave only to be captured by the receiving BT device - in my case, the Sony WH1000XM3, at which point, wouldn't the entirety of the listening experience be subject to the receiving device? It's the receiving device that processes the music data file and passes it to/through the receiving device's DAC (the XM3). It doesn't matter whether I sent the file from my expensive Walkman, my phone, a laptop, etc...

My point is, it seems awful silly for anyone to buy a high end DAP with the intent of using it with BT. The only callout being that with aptX™, aptX™ HD, and LDAC™, your sending device is important in that it must be capable of sending said aptX™ (HD) or LDAC™ signal to your receiving device, for which most phones, laptops, etc., do not currently perform.

Even still, the best wireless transmissions we have, currently (aptX™ [HD] and LDAC™) are technically inferior to a wired connection - especially for DSD and anything above 24/48 PCM. I'm happy to play with wires to retain 100% fidelity.
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 12:27 PM Post #17 of 76
My setup is Tidal on iPhone via Dragonfly Red to AKG N40. I mainly download 44.1/16 as I am not yet convinced on MQA. Sure, it sounds slightly different, but is it better? I don't think I could reliably identity the MQA track in an AB test, at least not on my current gear.

I totally get the whole MQA debate. I will say, however, in that my NW-ZX300 plays back MQA and performs the "final unfold" I enjoy listening to MQA on it knowing I'm enjoying the entire capability of the technology. I agree it does sound "different" in many cases. Sometimes, better. My subjective impressions are "clearer" sound with more "present" vocals, often times coming to the forefront of the soundstage.

Do I sound like an audiophile, yet? :dt880smile:
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 12:33 PM Post #18 of 76
I am very intrigued about the Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 though, these look interesting for travelling...

Thanks for pointing me to the Dan Clarks... they look intriguing, indeed. If I end up considering over-ear cans, I will definitely keep these in the mix. Thanks for the thoughtful response and all of the additional information you shared, as well.
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 12:50 PM Post #19 of 76
Active noise-cancelling adds a signal to cancel out ambient noise and I'm personally not a fan. Not to mention it requires another battery and the headphones will have to run its own built in headphone amp.

...yeah, this is another question I'm not clear about regarding passing signal from a hi-res DAP, via wired-connection, to the XM3's... similar to my BT comments in an earlier post, does the signal end up being processed entirely in the headphone? I understand that noise-canceling headphones need to be "powered" to achieve said noise-canceling, but to what degree is the headphone taking over any/all signal processing if over a wired (as opposed to BT) connection?

Is the DAC in the headphones used to process the signal or the DAC in the DAP?

It makes sense that the headphone's amp is employed, but is to the exclusion of the DAP's amp?

sorry... these are definitely in the "newb" questions category :blush:
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 1:02 PM Post #20 of 76
Hi @U2Joshua,

I second @ProtegeManiac on using IEMs for overall best isolation & fit for travelling.
I also agree eartip fit can be tricky but not impossible...just takes time to get right.

Depending on your budget, here are some IEMs with good isolation in no particular order to consider which are also relatively easy to fit :

Audio Technica E70
iBasso IT 04
iBasso IT 01s
iBasso IT 01
Sony IER M7

Also, if you don't need Bluetooth or wifi, I suggest looking into the Cowon Plenue D, hard to beat in sound quality & battery life as well as good portable form factor.

Thanks. I was definitely eyeing the Sony IER-M7, for a couple of reasons: 1.) it's relatively inexpensive, 2.) it's Sony, so the compatibility factory with my NW-ZX300 should be a safe bet - particularly, it has a 4.4mm Balanced cable connection, which my NW-ZX300 receives. Interestingly, no one has brought this up as a discussion point in the thread, so far, but it's something I'm mindful of and interested in exploring the benefits of the application. Until now, I've only had 3.5mm cable connected devices - namely, my WH1000XM3's. Over in the NW-ZX300 thread, most people rave about the NW-ZX300's 4.4mm Balanced port as being oodles better than the 3.5mm. That said, assuming I am not divorcing my ZX300 anytime soon, I want my headphone/earphone selection to be capable of connecting via 4.4mm Balanced cable.

I am curious about your Cowon Plenue D recommendation. Real world, are you suggesting it as a superior device to the NW-ZX300? The NW-ZX300 is the first / only DAP I've owned. To your point, I'm not in need of Bluetooth - again, I think BT on a high-end DAP is pointless and silly, and I don't need WiFi (for now), although the NW-ZX300's successor, the NW-ZX507 does have WiFi connectivity with Android OS. I've kicked the tires of trading in the 300 for the 507 just to have the added functionality, combined with that fact that some 507 owners report improved sound over the 300, as well, thanks to "all new polymer capacitors (purportedly an improvement over the ones onboard the 300, even)."
 
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Jan 18, 2020 at 1:14 PM Post #21 of 76
Frequency response and ambient noises are going to be the overwhelming enemies of fidelity on a plane. Under reasonable circumstances the achieved fidelity is going to be settled by noise and how well you fight it IMO.
The frequency response should fit your own hearing. So beyond going for very generic trends for average human heads, you're the one who should judge when you get to feel a fairly well balanced response.

Thank you for your thoughtful and thorough response. I am invoking the ignorance card, however, regarding your above statement(s). Can you help me better understand your points, perhaps in newbie(r) terms? :blush:

The idea of "fighting" noise is curious - are you suggesting that I/we would have an active role in this? Or, are you merely suggesting that fighting noise is what we're all after, and it gets accomplished through a number of modalities, i.e. isolation, noise-canceling, etc.?

Perhaps, more intriguing is the idea that "frequency response should fit (my) own hearing" and that I "should judge when (I) get to feel a fairly well balanced response." I'm always up for a good challenge. What does this mean and practically look like? Perhaps, the root of my confusion on this matter is what you're meaning by "frequency response" and "balanced response", respectively.

Appreciate any additional insights you're willing to spend time divulging.
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 1:23 PM Post #22 of 76
1. Do you know if you will be OK with IEMs regarding fitment and tolerance-wise? In other words, have you ever use any IEMs prolonged time (several hours) and do you have average/common ear shape and ear canal shape that can accommodate most of IEMs?
2. Do you know what kind of sound signatures or tonal balance you want in your IEMs or your headphones?

Re. #1, I believe I could do well with IEMs, although I don't have a ton of experience. I bought a pair of relatively inexpensive, but decent pair of Shure IEMs, 15+ years ago for ~$150. I used them with an iPod, but never really formed a strong opinion about them, one way or the other. Admittedly, fit is a huge challenge for me in that my ears are far from symmetrical. My left ear canal is much smaller and has more of a "bend" than the right. As such, I either need to play around extensively with various tips - different ones for each ear, or go all out and do CIEM's - a strong consideration, at this point.

Re. #2, I don't have strong or well-formed perspectives or opinions. I will say that I tend to enjoy "warmer," balanced tones. I listen primarily to Rock, Alternative, and mix in quite a bit of Soundtrack, Ambient and New Age genres. In theory, I'm after getting the most unadulterated sound, possible - i.e., I'm after hearing music the way the "artist intended for me to", blah-blah, blah-blah, blah-blah... :innocent:
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 1:46 PM Post #23 of 76
Do you like certain house sound or signature sound? Like, what do you think about your Sony’s sound signatures using a wired connection? Are you familiar with old Sennheiser house sound like HD600/HD650?
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 2:04 PM Post #24 of 76
...yeah, this is another question I'm not clear about regarding passing signal from a hi-res DAP, via wired-connection, to the XM3's... similar to my BT comments in an earlier post, does the signal end up being processed entirely in the headphone? I understand that noise-canceling headphones need to be "powered" to achieve said noise-canceling, but to what degree is the headphone taking over any/all signal processing if over a wired (as opposed to BT) connection?

Is the DAC in the headphones used to process the signal or the DAC in the DAP?

It makes sense that the headphone's amp is employed, but is to the exclusion of the DAP's amp?

sorry... these are definitely in the "newb" questions category :blush:

On Sony XM3, the wire connection bypasses the headphones’ DAC. You should’ve noticed that there is no power on the headphones nor noise-cancelling when you use a wired connection. In this case, you are using your DAP’s DAC.
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 3:04 PM Post #25 of 76
Do you like certain house sound or signature sound? Like, what do you think about your Sony’s sound signatures using a wired connection? Are you familiar with old Sennheiser house sound like HD600/HD650?

Honestly, no. A music lover, all of my life, only over the last two years have I begun entry into the world of HiFi. I don't really have much to compare to.

Impressions of the Sony NW-ZX300 (over wired connection) is that it has a very full, rich, smooth, natural bass - especially when playing DSD files. Some have argued that this is to an unnatural extent. Hard to tell, but I will say there are certain tracks where the bass seems pronounced and it's possible it's over present, but rarely is it the case or to perceived detriment.

On the whole, I appreciate the very clean, clear sound - no "noise" to speak of.

I know Sennheiser HD600/HD650s have a huge following... I've been tempted to buy a pair, myself, as they seem a popular choice for ZX300 users, but to date I've not mustered the interest to buy a pair of cans that aren't targeted at improving "noise canceling" or conducive to air travel. Unfortunately, I don't find myself in a place very often where I say, "I'm home on a Saturday afternoon, and just want to sit down and listen to music on headphones" without there being ambient noise, etc. I have 3 children.
 
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Jan 18, 2020 at 3:08 PM Post #26 of 76
TL;DR a good DAP and a pair of Shures is probably the right combo for air travel.

I'm flying every other month between Europe and Asia. My travel rig is one of two crappy FiiO DAPs, Shure SE215, and an Aune B1S amp. My criteria is I have to be able to jam everything in my pockets so I can go to the can without leaving thousands of euros of gear lying on the seat. I'd like a much better DAP and then I could not drag the B1S with me. I love the amp, but it runs very hot and it's something else to carry. I need it because the FiiOs have such weak and worthless processors that when you play DSD (I listen to mostly SACD rips) the UI goes dead and it takes 5 minutes to adjust the volume.

I see guys wearing every possible kind of headphone but to me the idea is really not good unless you're travelling with somebody who can watch your stuff. Yeah, you can wrap most pairs of headphones around your neck but that doesn't seem comfortable.

I would not ever buy any noise cancelling gear and nothing wireless. The Shures are supposed to isolate better than most but if you fly you know there is no amount of isolation that will ever be enough on a plane. I also have 535s but I don't bring them with me when I travel.
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 3:17 PM Post #27 of 76
On Sony XM3, the wire connection bypasses the headphones’ DAC. You should’ve noticed that there is no power on the headphones nor noise-cancelling when you use a wired connection. In this case, you are using your DAP’s DAC.

I think I need (to make) a couple of clarifications:

1. Unlike older Bose models, these Sony's can play without power, with power, with power + noise-canceling, and with power + ambient noise enabled (to hear outside noises - i.e. a flight attendant asking what you'd like to drink).

2. Above said, I have played the NW-ZX300 connected over:
  • Wireless (Bluetooth, aptX, aptX HD, LDAC) with XM3's powered on (as they must be) - it sounds fine. I can't tell you that it is any different than playing music from my iPhone over Bluetooth.
  • Connected: 3.5mm wire, with the XM3's power off. There is sound, of course, as you alluded to above, but it is noticeably underwhelming. The sound is distant, quiet and flat/dark. It sounds like the sound is coming from somewhere down the hall.
  • Connected: 3.5mm wire, with the XM3's power on, but noise-canceling off, and the sound "improves." Perhaps, this is the scenario wherein which the crux of my question lies. If I have the headphones "powered on" but noise-canceling disabled, what exactly is being "powered"? The headphone's amp? The headphone's amp + DAC? Ideally, I'd like to know that the DAC is not being used under any circumstance, unless it's over wireless, to the degree that I am still benefitting from the wired connection (full fidelity) and still processing sound through the DAP's DAC, which arguably is/should be "better" than a DAC in a pair of $279 headphones.
  • Connected: 3.5mm wire, with the XM3's power on, and noise-canceling on. Similar to above, is the "power" in this case merely powering the headphone's amp? If so, is it to the exclusion of the NW-ZX300's amp? If so, is this a problem? Does one amp prevail in quality (sound) over the other? And, of course, the remaining all too important question, does the XM3's DAC take over in this scenario (same as above?), or does the Digital to Analog conversion still take place in the NW-ZX300?
 
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Jan 18, 2020 at 4:29 PM Post #28 of 76
Update: I dug out my old Shure IEMs - appears they are E3’s / E3C’s.

I’ve ordered some new ”black foam” tips after reading that they are/were a major improvement over the original yellow foam ones included when I bought them back in 2004.

At any rate, I’m going to mess around with these for a while. In all honesty, my early impressions are that they are (just) “okay.”

Not having a lot of experience with IEM’s, I’m hard-pressed to imagine night and day difference potential between these and high-end IEM's, but that is based solely on ignorance and not being able to appreciate the amount of technology that apparently can be packed into such a small device.

My impressions are that IEMs only offer a "partial" listening experience. To me, sound is a full-body experience. If I'm sitting in a modern theater, when noise levels increase, I experience the sound as it reverberates through my entire body - ears, limbs, chest, etc. Headphones allow sound to interact with the whole of my ears, at least, while IEMs are only interacting with my ear canals and everything downstream.

I'd love to be proven wrong and try the right IEMs (CIEMs?) that not only fit superbly, but blow me away, acoustically, challenging my assumptions above.
 
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Jan 18, 2020 at 5:03 PM Post #29 of 76
OK, now I understand what you are asking. This is a tricky question since Sony is vague about what is actually happening when a wire connection is made. This is my speculation based only on two following clues 1. The sound with headphones are “on” are different with wired operation by a bit of boosted bass and treble with added transient emphasis with wire and 2. Sony said in their 130 page user help guide on Page 74 Using the supplied headphone cable section : “*To enjoy high resolution audio music or use the noise canceling function/Ambient Sound Mode, turn the headset on.”

Here comes a speculation: Sony may be digitally sampling the wired signal with ADC to feed it to its own DAC/amp to utilize noise cancelation circuit. Of course, without confirming with Sony and/or reverse engineer the Sony headphone circuitry, we cannot be 100% certain.

Now going back to the original “audiophile” topic, do you find the best version (best of those four modes of operations of Sony’s sound) to be good enough or do you need different or better? Recent years, Sony is trying to define its own on sonic house sound signature to be similar to Z1R with articulated bass, recessed mid, and rolling off treble a bit. Z7 and more obviously newer Z7M2 exhibit the newer Sony sonic signature. XM3 has a bit of this trend, but not quite at that Z1R or Z7M2 caliber.
 
Jan 18, 2020 at 5:14 PM Post #30 of 76
Thank you for your thoughtful and thorough response. I am invoking the ignorance card, however, regarding your above statement(s). Can you help me better understand your points, perhaps in newbie(r) terms? :blush:

The idea of "fighting" noise is curious - are you suggesting that I/we would have an active role in this? Or, are you merely suggesting that fighting noise is what we're all after, and it gets accomplished through a number of modalities, i.e. isolation, noise-canceling, etc.?

Perhaps, more intriguing is the idea that "frequency response should fit (my) own hearing" and that I "should judge when (I) get to feel a fairly well balanced response." I'm always up for a good challenge. What does this mean and practically look like? Perhaps, the root of my confusion on this matter is what you're meaning by "frequency response" and "balanced response", respectively.

Appreciate any additional insights you're willing to spend time divulging.

Warning /!\ I'm afraid that while trying to keep it accessible, I also made it overly long and not really easier to understand. Sorry about that.

About frequency response, there is a long lasting assumption that we will prefer and find more realistic a sound that we perceive as neutral. That assumption has been long demonstrated with speakers, and an idea of flat response has been pretty much set in stone along with the frequency response to achieve it. But it is more complicated with headphones as some of the ways your head and ears would affect everyday sounds reaching your eardrum are bypassed or altered by the position of the headphones. So some compensation is needed, and because we have different heads and ears you and I, the impact of a given headphone on our perception is going to be listener dependent in some more or less significant ways. As a result, there is no definitive standard of flat frequency response for headphones that can claim it will sound flat for everybody because that would be a lie. So if you want neutral, you're the one who can help you best(or some super rigorous measurements of your HRTF in a lab, sadly that's not very accessible).
Frequency response is a big part of what makes us feel like we're getting good sound or not(I'm not saying this, research is). So finding your signature(what feels "neutral" or "balanced" to you) is always going to be a big step toward getting good sound, both objectively and subjectively. I suggest to play around with EQ(although on a Sony DAP the EQ options are rather limited) if only to learn about your own preferences and also to learn to notice what isn't right in a given headphone. That way instead of just having the feeling that something isn't right, you can hopefully learn to identify the problem better, and maybe compensate for it or at least know not to get the same thing on your next headphone. That doesn't solve everything, and is easier said than done, but it's an obvious starting point when we look for good sound. The alternative to practicing with EQ, is to just try many headphones to find what comes close to your preferred signature.
But if you're going to stick with this hobby, you'll have to tackle frequency response at some point and find a way to know what you, specifically, need/like. Many people in the hobby think they're looking for something else, like some elements of soundstage, or the tightness of the bass, or whatever. But frequency response is almost always part of the answer, if not the answer.

About noise: trying to achieve the best sound means trying to have something as close as possible to some predefined reference. Here we're going to assume that it's the album. Between one DAP and another one, most of the music signal will be accurate on both down to maybe -60 or even -80dB. Those stuff are simply really good. Some obviously are better, but still, even many of the cheap ones do a good job nowadays. A headphone on the other hand will distort the signal(because it has moving parts and must fight inertia, the stiffness of the driver, and the air around). It's not rare at all for a headphone to have distortions reaching 1% or at least coming close to that. 1% distortion, to speak in the same units as before, means that for a given signal sent to the headphone(the music), it will create that signal and also some extra signal(the distortions) that will be 40dB quieter than the signal(1% means 40dB below signal). So -40dB. Between that and how headphones often have frequency responses that are very different from one another, it's obvious that the headphone is much more likely to be the one limiting fidelity. That's for audio in general.

Now, "I'm on a plane, I can't complain, I'm on a plain". Noises in the cabin reach maybe a stable 70 to 80dB SPL, which is rather close to the sound levels we use when listening to music. So if we had no isolation at all, we'd have noises from the plane as loud as the music:sob:. The solution to "fight" that noise is either to isolate yourself from it, or to increase the music level so the noise becomes quieter relatively to music. The second option is very very bad for our ears on a long flight. So isolation it is.
But isolation, active or passive is limited. Even with my Etymotic in ear, I'm getting mostly between 20 to 25dB of ambient noise attenuation depending on the frequency of the noise. And that's when I get a very good seal with the tips. So if I listen to music near 80dB SPL, even with some of the best solutions I've found, noise is still likely to be only some -20dB below signal(at least if I don't turn the music up and keep a reasonable/healthy level).
And that is the long winded explanation for why I said that "Under reasonable circumstances the achieved fidelity is going to be settled by noise and how well you fight it". Because everything else(beside frequency response), is likely to only affect the sound at a much quieter level compared to how cabin noises are ruining the music you get to hear. Noise is the weak link in this context and will remain the weak link even with good active or passive isolation. So that's what you want to get right. Shure is making IEMs with good isolation. Not the very best, but better than most beside custom IEMs. My amateurish tests with a speaker and a mic gave my SE215 almost as isolating as my etymotic, but the etymotic was still doing better by up to 5dB at some frequencies. The obvious problem with etymotic is comfort. Depending on your ear canal, those IEMs might feel like torture(ear rape is often used to describe than brand). But some guys like myself happen to feel fine with them for hours, when I want to cry after 20mn wearing almost any on ear headphones. Again, no universal solution. What works for me might not be best for you.
The noise cancelling headphones I've tried didn't isolate as much as a pair of etymotic IEM. But I have not tried recent products, and again I happen to be lucky when it comes to Etymotic fit and comfort. So I perfectly understand that other people can be of the opinion that NC headphones do isolate better than IEMs. It might be true for them.
 

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