[crazyfrenchman27]

In short, everything and nothing is better than the DAC-1....

This means that it is a capable source and everything else is left to personal taste.

-Matt

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2Grey This is my impression as well. Every time a new DAC comes out, people instantly go and claim it is better than the DAC1, with the resulting conclusion (presumably) being that the DAC1 sucks and is horribly overpriced. Nevertheless this always happens anyway so that people can say that the DAC is a great value since it's as good as the $900? Benchmark.

The Benchmark retails for $975.00. My Lavry retails for $975.00. So trying to make it sound better than the more expensive DAC1 is not a factor. I base my impressions on what I heard from the 2 DACs. I also don't believe the DAC1 sucks, I just prefer the sound of the Lavry DA10. If you don't hear any differences I don't find that odd. I believe that this hobby is an ongoing learning situation. I have taught myself what to listen for over my many years in the hobby. I started with a $500.00 system that I thought sounded fantastic at the time. If I had to listen to it today I'd probably think it sounded like fingernails on a chaulkboard. I am not running down the Benchmark at all, it's a very good DAC and anyone who owns one should feel great about it. I think the Lavry has a bit more of a musical presentation with more liquid highs. That's my opinion and nothing more, but I do have a right to that opinion. I also have the right to share my opinion with others, that's what this forum is about.

 

[cmk]

Just to add my 2c:
The DAC1 is, like all digital components, susceptible to noise in the power supply, so getting your power supply clean is critical for it to perform optimally. Also like someone posted earlier, it needs to be sited away from vibration.

Get these things right and you will not complain about "unnatural" highs, overtight bass, etc...yabayabayaba.

Some years ago, Stereophile recommended the JPS digital power cord. I use that for both my CEC transport and the DAC1, and there is no unnatural edge and the bass is neutral.

 

[Riordan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf Hate is a strong word I am also wary of buying equipment that requires me to become member of some cable cult in order to sound good.

so would i. your fears are unfounded, though: some of the most glowing reviews come from sound engineers, based on the benchmark's immaculate performance in studios - and its specs. cable cult doesn't quite fit in there...

 

[RooX]

personally i did not like it much at al lwhen it was in my system. found it very boring, it sounded like digital to me

I have had literally dozens of dacs through my system, and it is in the very small minority that i decided i could NOT live with. No texture, no life, just that bright slightly thin sound.

seems to float others boats though, so give it a try first if you can.

 

[325xi]

Well, someone said already, the musicality of the component is all about having the certain pattern of distortion in the output signal. "Analytical" components lack it, overly "musical" components have plenty of it.

Now, let's see. You've got a chain, where signal downstreams from the source to (simplified) pre, amp, and inevitable speakers. Most "musically" sounding components lovers have most, if not all, their components from musical camp. Which means, the aforementioned distortion will be added again and again on every stage. At the end we have a big mess, barely resembling the desired "musical distortion" pattern.

Now take our "cold and unnatural" DAC1 that simply represents the signal as is with very little distortion, be it good or bad - you've got clean signal, although barely listenable for some. Wouldn't it be smarter to keep it clean as long as possible, and inject the "warmness" on the latest stages, to keep both original signal AND the desired musical distortion pattern... well.. undistorted until, let's say, the power amp stage - just before the speakers - assuming you managed to find the amp that can add only desired distortion and not his own bad engineering mix?

Shouldn't this approach to let you hear the real thing, while being just enough musical?

 

[Patrick82]

Yes, that's why Sennheiser works good with this DAC.

You also need to keep the system always warmed up. I turned it off for 30 minutes and when I put it back on it had gone from unbearably warm to unbearably bright, it hurt my ears.

12 hours later it's still bright.

So why get more forgiving components just so you don't need as much warm-up?

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 325xi Now take our "cold and unnatural" DAC1 that simply represents the signal as is with very little distortion, be it good or bad - you've got clean signal, although barely listenable for some.

The implementation itself carries weight of how a unit sounds. My modded DAC1 didn't sound the same as stock. Far from it. I believe better sound is fuller, more balanced, and less unnatural. If you rebuild/mod equipment, that's the general direction they all head in. Can one really argue that DAC1 mods vs DAC1 stock adds more distortion because it sounds "warmer"?

 

[Ferbose]

I was fortunate enough to borrow a modded Zhaolu D1.3 DAC to do side-by-side comparison with Benchmark DAC1. Overall they sound very similar, but very careful listening shows that DAC1 is still ahead in terms of resolution, ambience and the lack of digital artifacts in treble. Zhaolu's performance as a DAC is on the same level as my PreSonus Central Station. Based on what I heard, Zhaolu is not a giant killer, but for its price its shortcomings are really minor and tend not to interfere with musical enjoyment. Is Zhaolu a super bargain? Not quite either. My PreSonus Central Station costs $250 more but comes with better headphone amps and a stellar passive pre-amp plus lots of I/O options, and a reliable warranty. This shows to me that although China can build hi-fi components for a lower cost, there is still no miracle in this business. PreSonus Central Station is made in China, too.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose I was fortunate enough to borrow a modded Zhaolu D1.3 DAC to do side-by-side comparison with Benchmark DAC1. Overall they sound very similar, but very careful listening shows that DAC1 is still ahead in terms of resolution, ambience and the lack of digital artifacts in treble.

*shrug*

I think their sonic presentation is very different. DAC1 is more dynamic and forward.

I would say detail maybe about similar. DAC1 is more about midbass to mid treble detail. zhaolu i'd say is about midrange to upper treble detail.

To me zhaolu is far greater performance in ambience, soundstage, imaging. That is it's specialty and that is DAC1s weakness.

As for digital artifacts in treble. DAC1 to me doesn't show it because it is masking quite a bit.

I know this doesn't help anybody that's why I suggest auditioning for oneself to and draw ones own conclusions.

 

[cmk]

I think one very important factor many do not mention when discussing the sound of the component, is the context in which they use the component. If you used it with XYZ transport and ABC cable, then you arrived at this conclusion. Okay, fine. Just saying that it sounds this way, or that way, without mentioning anything about the complimentary components used, IMO says nothing.

Also, what music did you use in your evaluation?

There are so many unanswered questions...

If there is anything to conclude about the DAC1's sound, is that it certainly brings up many different conclusions about its sound, and this tells me that it is faithfully showing the sound of the components it is used with, and that my friends, is what fidelity is all about.

 

[Ferbose]

When I find time I will post detailed impressions between Zhaolu and Benchmark.
I also got one more chance to compare them today on another head-fier's speaker setup with Harbeth Compact 7.
Both of us really liked Benhcmark directly into the Quad power amplifier.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan To me zhaolu is far greater performance in ambience, soundstage, imaging. That is it's specialty and that is DAC1s weakness. As for digital artifacts in treble. DAC1 to me doesn't show it because it is masking quite a bit.

I'd agree here, re

AC1, since I've found the treble a tad grainy and not as revealing as some other DAC's I've tried. I could certainly see the Zhalou bettering it in those aspects, since the DAC1 is hardly supreme in such regards.

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer I'd agree here, re AC1, since I've found the treble a tad grainy and not as revealing as some other DAC's I've tried.

I have to concur with Iron_Dreamer and Ian on this issue. The DAC1 is simply grainy, bordering on harsh.
The particular unit I auditioned (many times) was the permanent DAC in zdogg's system. It only took a very short listen against the stock Zhaolu 1.3 to arrive at this obvious conclusion. Further auditions were conducted using numerous cables, power isolation devices and transports, with the "hope" that something in the setup is wrong - but to no avail...

I also heard the DA-10 vs. the DAC1 and it made that same point just as obvious as the Zhaolu did. And then the Grace M902 and Eastsound CD-E5 revealed the exact same weakness of the DAC1, in two very different systems.
Based on all that data, I had to arrive at the above conclusion.

 

[325xi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan The implementation itself carries weight of how a unit sounds. My modded DAC1 didn't sound the same as stock. Far from it. I believe better sound is fuller, more balanced, and less unnatural. If you rebuild/mod equipment, that's the general direction they all head in. Can one really argue that DAC1 mods vs DAC1 stock adds more distortion because it sounds "warmer"?

You can tweak the unit to make it sound any way you want. It may sound good, but it wouldn't necessarily represent the original signal.

And the modded unit isn't necessary outputs "cleaner" signal, I'd even suggest the opposite, even though it sounds warmer. Do you really believe Benchmark engineers are so simple headed to miss something so obvious, for example other OP that would do so significant improvement?

I don't judge the component by what I hear first - I prefer to know how it's build, why, and what exactly it does with the signal; then evaluate it in my system and then see where the bad things happen, and what component compromises the sound. If I know that DAC1 outputs the cleanest signal among the known DACs, I'd rather be looking for the problem among other components in my system.