Benchmark DAC1: Hate it?
May 18, 2006 at 9:03 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 80

bjackson

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Is there anyone who actually dislikes the Benchmark DAC? I read review after review that has such glowing reviews. Even those who say there should be no difference in sound between modern DACs recommend the Benchmark.

The worst I've heard is that it is too analytical, etc, however, I've never heard anyone say that it's horrible, etc.

Has anyone had a negative experiance with one?

BTW, the system I'd be using it with possibly is a SB2 optical out -> Benchmark -> Sennheiser HD650
 
May 19, 2006 at 9:16 AM Post #3 of 80
The Benchmark can never be horrible. Even your ears are super picky, its still won't sound horrible.
580smile.gif
 
May 19, 2006 at 9:52 AM Post #4 of 80
Have a search on the forum and you'll find suggestions on tweaking the connections such as using XLR out with xlr>rca adapters (modified to float pin 3 - it's explained in the manual); some use the xlr to drive Senns in a balanced mode.

Lot's to try and I've got some xlr connectors coming today hopefully.

Leaves me in a quandary as to whether to use the xlr out/headphone cable, run xlr>rca to headphone amp or the internal headphone amp. Opinion seems to be against using the headphone sockets direct, but I'll try for myself when I have all the adapters.

I did a quick demo of it on my hi-fi setup but not a stark difference between the dac of the Creek CD50 and the DAC1 but that could be due to the newness of the DAC1 and just using the standard rca out (need those xlr adapters Mr Postman!).

For the moment I’ve connected it up to my PC setup feeding it with the optical out of the EMU404 and tried the headphone amp and through a hornet using the DAC1 rca outs again. The headphone out would be OK if I did not have better headphone amps so I've mentally crossed the inbuilt headphone amp of the list - after all I want the best sound I can get.

After the initial test on the hi-fi setup I was blown away by the huge improvement I perceived on the PC using Foobar to feed the Emu then the DAC1 going to a hornet and my HHF1s - my microstack is in danger of being replaced on my PC setup! If the DAC1 was £300 I would have bought another and have one for the PC and the other for the hi-fi.

I know there are better dacs out there but I bought based on the reputation and reviews and I like the new silver look - if the silver had been available a lot earlier I probably would have had one for a while now.

Steve
 
May 19, 2006 at 12:13 PM Post #5 of 80
People who don't like the DAC1 are not using it properly.
It is very sensitive to power and vibration, does that make it bad?
I am using a modded dual Nordost Vishnu power cord, Solid-Tech Rack of Silence and a cheap warm interconnect with great results, there isn't any brightness/harshness at all, I don't even think about it! The Dual Vishnu makes it very relaxing compared to the more dynamical Valhalla and has almost as much bass, everyone with a single Vishnu should try this mod.
 
May 19, 2006 at 1:04 PM Post #6 of 80
Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82
It is very sensitive to power and vibration, does that make it bad?


How exactly does vibration affect a solid state device with no moving parts?
 
May 19, 2006 at 3:03 PM Post #7 of 80
I absolutely hate the DAC1 and I know that I am not the only one. It is WAY too bright for my taste. Overemphasizing detail does not equal more detail... it just adds fatigue. When you hear a DAC that actually has more detail it is quite a bit different. You can hear everything, but it is not beating you over the head with it.

That said, it doesn't sound like crap or anything... just not the kind of sound I like. It still blows most sound cards and poor sources out of the water. I've just heard better and for around the same cost. Also, though I can't confirm, I've heard from a couple people that the DAC in the Squeezebox is comparible to the DAC1. For $300 you can't go wrong.
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May 19, 2006 at 4:18 PM Post #8 of 80
I've found the DAC1 slightly bright with my speaker system but still very enjoyable. I think if your going to use the DAC1 with HD650s, this will not be an issue from my experience.

From my experience, the stock DAC in my SB3 doesn't sound anything like the DAC1. The DAC on the SB3 is good for the money you pay, but the soundstage is not nearly as wide and you lose some resolution compared to the DAC1. The DAC1 can maybe sound like the DAC in the SBx if the XLR-RCA adapters are not modified correctly (already mentioned), and the ground pin (?) on your power cable is not floated or disconnected. Don't know the correct term for this.

There are some detractors for the DAC1. My opinion is that it is just a matter of preference and/or system matching.
 
May 19, 2006 at 4:21 PM Post #9 of 80
Hate is a strong word I am also wary of buying equipment that requires me to become member of some cable cult in order to sound good.

To my ears the DAC1 had prominent and somewhat grainy highs and a light bass. Some of these characteristics seem to come from it's asynchronous resampling chip while other are related to the analog circuit and the simpe pot volume control.

When I go to an unamplified concert the sound has more weight compared to what a DAC1 reproduces from a recording. I made my piece with a Lavry Black.


Cheers

Thomas
 
May 19, 2006 at 4:25 PM Post #11 of 80
I was going to say that I don't like the DAC1 much at all but it was easier to just quote jason's post
wink.gif
. So Ditto to the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox
I absolutely hate the DAC1 and I know that I am not the only one. It is WAY too bright for my taste. Overemphasizing detail does not equal more detail... it just adds fatigue. When you hear a DAC that actually has more detail it is quite a bit different. You can hear everything, but it is not beating you over the head with it.

That said, it doesn't sound like crap or anything... just not the kind of sound I like. It still blows most sound cards and poor sources out of the water. I've just heard better and for around the same cost.



 
May 19, 2006 at 4:45 PM Post #12 of 80
Quote:

Originally Posted by utep10
From my experience, the stock DAC in my SB3 doesn't sound anything like the DAC1. The DAC on the SB3 is good for the money you pay, but the soundstage is not nearly as wide and you lose some resolution compared to the DAC1. The DAC1 can maybe sound the the DAC in the SBx if the XLR-RCA adapters are not modified correctly (already mentioned), and the ground pin (?) on your power cable is not floated or disconnected. Don't know the correct term for this.


I totally agree with the SB3/DAC-1 comparison.

I was just about to try a different power cord with the unit but have to probably sell it to head in a different direction for now. (Visual instead of audio). I do know that the DAC-1 is quite a bit better than the SB3 though.
 
May 19, 2006 at 4:47 PM Post #13 of 80
Quote:

Originally Posted by dpippel
How exactly does vibration affect a solid state device with no moving parts?


Just because it's called solid state doesn't mean there aren't any moving parts. EVERYTHING with a power supply benefits from isolation devices to reduce resonances. It doesn't have to do with "CD player skipping" at all.

In my experience using rubber feet emphasizes the low frequencies, cones the highs and metal balls (Rack of Silence) the midrange. They don't remove the vibrations, they just shift the problem somewhere else. You can tweak your system this way to find synergy.
But the best way is to remove the vibrations completely, unplug the refrigerator of neighbors etc. Or use high-end isolation feet in multiple steps. When done correctly it will sound neutral and you will hear blackness in between transients which makes it sound like higher resolution, you will hear more silence! Getting 2 step isolation for my amp and 3 step for my CD player was the biggest improvement I had ever heard, it took 3 months for my ears to adjust to the new sound, everything had shifted for the better!

A cheap experiment is to put 3 tennis balls under the amp and source. Everyone with DAC1 should try it and post back here.
 
May 19, 2006 at 5:29 PM Post #14 of 80
I do not like the DAC1. To my ears it sounds unnatural and unbalanced. My comments are from using it as source and headamp in my various systems on headphones and speakers.

Frequency spectrum. It seems a bit tipped up toward the treble. First because the highs want a bit of attention. I also think it's a bit grainy. Second because the bass is light in quantity. So where does this leave the mids? Let's move to the next area.

Dynamics. This is where this excels vs. cheaper sources and it's noteworthy. This is a rather edgy source to me and it helps delineate things. High notes are crisp the bass is taut. The problem with this is the midrange. The highs and lows are rather "exciting" but I think it leaves the midrange bland. Coupled with my experience with the frequency spectrum above, it equates to being slighly recessed. This is one of the reasons why I think it's unbalanced.

Detail. Most of it is in the attack brought upon by the edginess. The true detail is in the slow, soft, trailing parts. It's just ok to me. My definition of a high end source is well roundedness. Here I find the detail mostly in the midrange. Certainly that's a good thing since that's where much of the music is at. But in my quest, I'm all for making the frequency extremes the best they can be and this DAC doesn't have the finesse in the bass nor the treble. Lower level detail leads to the next thing.

Soundstage/imaging. More detail especially in the treble should help with spaciality. Unfortunately, I didn't find much love here. There's something nice about having a big wide soundstage but this was so wide to me, there was a gap in the middle of the sound. I would prefer a narrow soundstage if it meant more seamlessness in pans.

As a studio piece and analytical tool, this is highly effective IMO. You know exactly where pieces of sound are. In our systems, it depends on your system. This is not where I would want my sound to go.

I already heard and disliked this DAC from the start. That didn't discourage me to try though. I actually bought one to fool around with to further enhance my experience in this hobby. I make my own cables, have an AC regenerator which is modded with better parts, and I took the time to also mod the DAC1. I don't regret buying it as I was able to further train my ears. You have to verify what you like and don't like with more exposure.

thomaspf, I experienced that asynchronous chip has a heavy hand in the sound signature. One of the major sonic improvements was enhancing the bypass cap to that chip.
 

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