Behringer MINIAMP AMP800 - a short review

[systema]

With a silver/grey two-toned half rack plastic casing, the AMP800 actually looked comparatively sleek and classy. Despite the unnecessary resemblance to the Samson C-que, it was the same old story from Behringer beneath the skin, with the "ultra low noise" design, main stream op amps, smd components, heaps of flashing LEDs, manual with the photo of Mr. Uli Behringer and a dirt cheap price tag as part of the deal.

AMP: Behringer MINIAMP AMP800

PIGEONHOLE: Bargain basement

PHILOSOPHY: Loads of LEDs and features to compensate for long-in-the-tooth design.

WHO'S BUYING IT: Home studio owners that need a headphone distributor but don't want to pay the full price

WHY YOU'D BUY IT: Look at the price and the number of LEDs!

WHY YOU WOULDN'T: Look at and listen to the quality!

FEATURES: The AMP800 is lavishly equipped, at least for USD$50. Compared to the spartan user interface in most audiophile headphone amps, the AMP800 managed to fit 30 LEDs, 5 back-lighted buttons and 8 knobs in the 9.5" x 1.9" front panel, which should be more than enough to keep some of the 21st century button-pushers in Head-Fi happy. Cut it short, the AMP800 is burger with the lot feature-wise.

INPUT/OUTPUT: 2 independent stereo channels were handsomely kitted with balanced input, independent gain control & panning for each channel plus a 6 LED level meter, considerably a lot more features compared to other amps even ignoring the price tag. Output includes 8 headphone output (4 front and 4 back), 4 LED level meters and 1 balanced stereo link out, what more can you ask for for $50?

COMPONENTS: Instead of a audiophile-like headphone amp design, seems like what we got under the bonnet was basically a re-hashed version of the headphone output from other Behry equipment. AMP800 was supposed to be built around 4580 opamps, according to the user manual. However, the opamps found in the unit were a number of outdated generic branded 4558s, wouldn't be too surprised that the AMP800 sounds like headphone out of an el cheapo mini stereo.

BUILD: The AMP800 was built to a price, a modest one, and it shows. The actions of switchgears were acceptable but not brilliant. The alignment between the panning knob and the casing was not too accurate and can be made better. However, plastics used in AMP800 feel cheap and flimsy, while the thin lack luster paintwork (in the unit I got, some even flaked off even before the amp left the original packaging) suggests an overdose of accounting zeal. Wall-wart power supply feels cheap.

PRESENTATION: As if the crude build quality of the AMP800 was not a cruel enough joke to the customers, the sound of the AMP800 was pure evil. AMP800 showed a complete lack of detail, if there was any. The presentation was blurry and congested. Not acceptable on an amp that has pro/home studio pretensions. Noise floor and sound stage were okay for the price level.

HIGHS: AMP800 managed to sound excessively bright while lifeless. The plasticky brightness makes consonants like "s" and "z" sound awfully harsh and, sometimes, hurting to my ears. Push it a bit more, violins begin to sound like a chalks rubbing against blackboard - or like a whining sewing machine - depending.

MIDS: The mids are like white bread and water, not exactly inspiring but fool-proof, some may call it bland, sounding. The mids of the AMP800 actually sounded ok if the musical passage was not too complex, though a bit coarse and strained if pushed. Not really the best out there, but certainly not the worst either.

LOWS: If you only listen to music consists of notes above middle c without any percussion, the bass, or the absent of it, of AMP800 will serve you well. For others, drums from the AMP800 sounded like a pair of stick hitting on a few tin cans and bass ranged from skinny to virtually non-existent.

VERDICT
Sound quality is essential, especially on a piece of audio equipment. But, obviously, nobody appeared to tell Mr. Behringer. If your budget obliges you to look at the AMP800, go and have a try before handing over the money. Otherwise, my advice would be to save some more and look further.

 

[flecom]

any pics of the inside?

I was looking at this thing and wondering if it had any modding potential... like just for "im bored @ work" kind of project for an @ work kind of amp

 

[systema]

Followings are the PCB, the opamp and the comparator of the AMP. The only thing I can see that is readily moddable is the two 25v 4700uf electrolytic capacitor at the power supply. All other components are surface mounted.

 

[keyb36x]

bump-

wow, this is one hell of review, eh?
Is this amp so bad as systema says?

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyb36x /img/forum/go_quote.gif bump- wow, this is one hell of review, eh? Is this amp so bad as systema says?

Absolutely NOT! I have heard this amp and while I'm not saying that it is the best of the best, it certainly is not the worst of the worst either. And, it certainly is not as bad as systema makes it sound, IMO.
And, when you consider the inexpensive price, I doubt you can beat it.
We do not know the other components in the audio chain when systema listened and reviewed. Those other components can also affect the sound.
I have heard this amp connected directly to a computer sound card and, actually, when I first heard it, I did not think anything like 'this is a terrible sound' or any idea which was similar to that. Actually, all aspects of the audio sounded normal. When I considered the inexpensive price, I found myself quite impressed with the "bang for the buck" factor of this amp as well as the idea that an amp that was so inexpensive could sound as good as it does. And, IMO it does sound very good, not superb but definitely very good. If I was to rate the sound of this amp on a scale of 1 to 10 where 10 is the best, I would probably give this amp a rating of 7. The amp as a whole (all things considered), I would also give a rating of 7. It's above average, IMO especially when the price is taken into consideration.
Unlike, systema, I found the LED's a kind of nice feature in case there is something wrong with your headphones and there is no sound coming from them. With these LED's flashing, at least you know the amp is "hearing" the sounds.
I found the sounds emanating through the Behringer Amp 800 to be adequately well balanced with nice, smooth, full highs, mids, and tight definite lows. I used my Ultrasone Proline 750's to listen to this amp which was connected to the sound card of a computer when I listened.
The soundstage, sound quality and articulation from the low to high frequecies was fine and, as I wrote previously, everything sounded nice, normal and balanced with no distortion, IMO. The Ultrasone Proline 750's are very accurate and reveal just about any imperfection and the Behringer Amp 800 sounded fine powering the Proline 750's. In fact, I was impressed enough with the Behringer Amp 800 that I have considered purchasing one to use when I travel.
Point by point here are my thoughts on systema's review:

PIGEONHOLE: Bargain basement

My opinion: Inexpensive but definitely a nice value for the money.

WHY YOU'D BUY IT: Look at the price and the number of LEDs!

WHY YOU WOULDN'T: Look at and listen to the quality!

My opinion: Actually, I think it's kind of "retro-cool" looking. I think the sound quality is nice, not superb but definitely quite nice.

BUILD: The AMP800 was built to a price, a modest one, and it shows. The actions of switchgears were acceptable but not brilliant. The alignment between the panning knob and the casing was not too accurate and can be made better. However, plastics used in AMP800 feel cheap and flimsy, while the thin lack luster paintwork (in the unit I got, some even flaked off even before the amp left the original packaging) suggests an overdose of accounting zeal. Wall-wart power supply feels cheap.

My opinion: This is an inexpensive amp and, especially when one considers the price, this is a well built product. The action of the buttons and "switchgears" worked perfectly on the one I used. In fact, I was impressed with their quick response and accuracy. I was also impressed with the number of headphone output jacks there are and the fact that there was no leakage from one output to another. While it's true that the casing is plastic, it definitely does not feel "cheap and flimsy". IMO it has a sturdy "feel" for a case that is made of plastic. The paint work on the one I saw looked fine.

PRESENTATION: As if the crude build quality of the AMP800 was not a cruel enough joke to the customers, the sound of the AMP800 was pure evil. AMP800 showed a complete lack of detail, if there was any. The presentation was blurry and congested. Not acceptable on an amp that has pro/home studio pretensions. Noise floor and sound stage were okay for the price level.

My opinion: I very much disagree with the above paragraph. The build quality is good and definitely not a joke. The sound quality is, as I wrote previously, nice, especially when you consider the price, IMO. The presentation was not blurry and congested. It was quite the opposite being clear and with a level of articulation that was surprising from an amp that was priced so econmically.

HIGHS: AMP800 managed to sound excessively bright while lifeless. The plasticky brightness makes consonants like "s" and "z" sound awfully harsh and, sometimes, hurting to my ears. Push it a bit more, violins begin to sound like a chalks rubbing against blackboard - or like a whining sewing machine - depending.

My opinion: The above paragraph about "HIGHS", is absolutely false. There is no truth to it, whatsoever, IMO. My only guess here is that systema heard a faulty amp.

MIDS: The mids are like white bread and water, not exactly inspiring but fool-proof, some may call it bland, sounding. The mids of the AMP800 actually sounded ok if the musical passage was not too complex, though a bit coarse and strained if pushed. Not really the best out there, but certainly not the worst either.

My opinion: There was nothing noticeably degraded sounding about the mids. They sounded as good as the rest of the frequency range sounded. I reiterate, I think systema heard a faulty amp.

LOWS: If you only listen to music consists of notes above middle c without any percussion, the bass, or the absent of it, of AMP800 will serve you well. For others, drums from the AMP800 sounded like a pair of stick hitting on a few tin cans and bass ranged from skinny to virtually non-existent.

My opinion: The above paragraph regarding "LOWS" is a crock of nonsense, IMO. The bass came though clear and strong, with articulation and a nice tight tonal color when playing the Behringer Amp 800 through my Proline 750's. Drums and cymbals sounded clear and precise.

VERDICT
Sound quality is essential, especially on a piece of audio equipment. But, obviously, nobody appeared to tell Mr. Behringer. If your budget obliges you to look at the AMP800, go and have a try before handing over the money. Otherwise, my advice would be to save some more and look further.

My opinion: My budget does not oblige me to consider the AMP 800 but I have considered buying it because it is a good quality amp with a relatively sturdy build, especially when the price is considered, IMO. I would consider it to be a good second amp perhaps to be used when traveling or in the bedroom. Systema's review of the Behringer AMP 800 is for the most part, highly inaccurate, IMO. I agree with systema on one point and that is it would be an excellent idea for you to check out this amp and make your own decision. After doing so, I believe you will find yourself in as much of a state of disagreement with systema's review as I have.

 

[Clutz]

Perhaps you would like to share with us the other headphone amps you've had experience with?

 

[Ricey20]

Peter, there must have been a better way to word your post. It comes off to me as an attack on the reviewer. It would have just been better to state your opinion without attacking his own opinions because in the end its just all opinions, especially since sound is highly subjective. If people replied like that to every impression or review thread no one here would ever write another one. I do understand you think differently about the amp but I think bashing the reviewer's opinions isn't necessary. I do agree it would be good to list what equip or at least what headphones systema used with it.

Anyway thanks for the review systema. For that price I probably could find a use for it but upgraditis would probably bite real hard real quick

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricey20 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Peter, there must have been a better way to word your post. It comes off to me as an attack on the reviewer. It would have just been better to state your opinion without attacking his own opinions because in the end its just all opinions, especially since sound is highly subjective. If people replied like that to every impression or review thread no one here would ever write another one. I do understand you think differently about the amp but I think bashing the reviewer's opinions isn't necessary. I do agree it would be good to list what equip or at least what headphones systema used with it. Anyway thanks for the review systema. For that price I probably could find a use for it but upgraditis would probably bite real hard real quick

I call it the way I see it. Believe me, I could have been a lot more blunt. I was most definitely not attacking the reviewer. But, I was strongly disagreeing with the review. When one disagrees as strongly as I have with an opinion, there seems to me to be no choice but to speak against the opinions with which there is disagreement. If that sounds like I'm bashing to you, it isn't intentional bashing on my part and I can do little about your perceiving my comments as bashing when indeed, they are not bashing but instead simply and strongly stated disagreements. I'm simply stating things as I see them and I see absolutely no need to reword my comments.
In my comments I attempted to give systema the benefit of the doubt when I wrote that there must have been a faulty amp involved in systema's tests.

 

[Clutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif I call it the way I see it. Believe me, I could have been a lot more blunt. When one disagrees as strongly as I have with an opinion, there seems to me to be no choice but to speak against the opinions with which there is disagreement. If that sounds like I'm bashing to you, it isn't intentional bashing on my part and I can do little about your perceiving my comments as bashing when indeed, they are not bashing but instead simply and strongly stated disagreements. I'm simply stating things as I see them and I see absolutely no need to reword my comments. In my comments I attempted to give systema the benefit of the doubt when I wrote that there must have been a faulty amp involved in systema's tests.

Since you value being blunt, try this on for size: Maybe you don't have enough experience with high end equipment to be able to discern the difference between a good amp and crap.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps you would like to share with us the other headphone amps you've had experience with?

If you were addressing me, for the most part, at home, I have not used a headphone amp but instead plugged my headphones directly into the system amplifier which was more than sufficient to drive the headphones. It just so happens that by coincidence someone I know happens to own the Behringer amp and I knew that he was quite happy with it. After reading systema's review and knowing (by contrast comparison) his satisfaction with it, I checked it out more thoroughly to draw my own conclusions.

 

[Clutz]

Then you haven't had any experience with a good headphone amplifier at all. There is more to a headphone amplifier than simply making them loud. This is Head-Fi - Headphone-High Fidelity, not Headphone-Okay. I'm sure lots of people here who started with headphones thought that their previously unamped headphones sounded 'fine' until they heard a good quality amp. You are awfully confident in your review, especially given you've just admitted you have no experience with any other dedicated headphone amps.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since you value being blunt, try this on for size: Maybe you don't have enough experience with high end equipment to be able to discern the difference between a good amp and crap.

I don't know, that maybe true. I can say that I have had a great deal of experience with high end professional equipment because of my involvement in studio projects. I believe I know what sounds good and what doesn't. I never said this amp was superb and should be ranked alongside the top of the line amps like Grado and the like. What I said (in so many words) was this amp has a very good sound, especially when you consider the price and it would make a nice secondary amp for traveling or perhaps the bedroom. I never meant to indicate that I would recommend it to an audio professional or to an "audio enthusiast" (I prefer this to "audiophile") as their main headphone amp.
One more thought, your statement in this post comes off as elitist and "snobbish". Are you thinking that because something is inexpensively priced that it couldn't possibly be good? Think about it.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then you haven't had any experience with a good headphone amplifier at all. There is more to a headphone amplifier than simply making them loud. This is Head-Fi - Headphone-High Fidelity, not Headphone-Okay. I'm sure lots of people here who started with headphones thought that their previously unamped headphones sounded 'fine' until they heard a good quality amp. You are awfully confident in your review, especially given you've just admitted you have no experience with any other dedicated headphone amps.

No, I never admitted any such thing. What I said was that I don't use them at home. I have used them in studios, however. Also, the quality from a system amplilfier can be excellent depending on which amplifier is being used. I am fully aware that the purpose of a headphone amplifier is more than just loudness. Really, are you an elitist? You come off as one in these intelligence insulting comments to me.

 

[Clutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif You come off as one in these intelligence insulting comments to me.

I'm hardly an elitist, I don't have particularly high end equipment. I don't have multi-thousand dollar amps or sources, nor do I have the ears for it. That said, I don't have a problem with being called an elitist. Calling me an elitist says as much about you as it does about me.

I misread what you said about your experience with headphone ampifiers, but I still stand by the crux of the point, which was until you can make a comparison between the Behringer headphone amplifier and another dedicated headphone amplifier, I think your review should be taken with a grain of salt. For that matter, I would take anyone's opinion who thinks the Grado Headphone amplifier is any good with a grain of salt, because it's a $350 cmoy.

To be honest, I find it ironic that you are so taken aback when you seemed to be so pleased with being blunt with others, and too bad if other people didn't like it. You thoroughly trashed the original review, and did it in a systematic way. When someone suggested that perhaps you could've worded your response nicer, you said

Quote:

When one disagrees as strongly as I have with an opinion, there seems to me to be no choice but to speak against the opinions with which there is disagreement. If that sounds like I'm bashing to you, it isn't intentional bashing on my part and I can do little about your perceiving my comments as bashing when indeed, they are not bashing but instead simply and strongly stated disagreements. I'm simply stating things as I see them and I see absolutely no need to reword my comments.

Seems like a case of the pot calling the chicken black here, don't you think?
I didn't insult your intelligence, and if you think I did than maybe you need to grow a thicker skin. I can't imagine anyone taking what I said as an insult to their intelligence. Bullies always think that when they're doing something it's fine, but when it's done back to them a grave injustice has been done.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm hardly an elitist, I don't have particularly high end equipment. I don't have multi-thousand dollar amps or sources, nor do I have the ears for it. That said, I don't have a problem with being called an elitist. Calling me an elitist says as much about you as it does about me. I misread what you said about your experience with headphone ampifiers, but I still stand by the crux of the point, which was until you can make a comparison between the Behringer headphone amplifier and another dedicated headphone amplifier, I think your review should be taken with a grain of salt. For that matter, I would take anyone's opinion who thinks the Grado Headphone amplifier is any good with a grain of salt, because it's a $350 cmoy. To be honest, I find it ironic that you are so taken aback when you seemed to be so pleased with being blunt with others, and too bad if other people didn't like it. You thoroughly trashed the original review, and did it in a systematic way. When someone suggested that perhaps you could've worded your response nicer, you said Seems like a case of the pot calling the chicken black here, don't you think? I didn't insult your intelligence, and if you think I did than maybe you need to grow a thicker skin. I can't imagine anyone taking what I said as an insult to their intelligence. Bullies always think that when they're doing something it's fine, but when it's done back to them a grave injustice has been done.

First, at no point did I ever call you an elitist. I asked if you are one. There's a difference. In other words, I was asking you if you consider yourself to be an elitist. And, the reason I asked is because your comments to me seemed elitist ("snobish") in nature.
I was trying to make it clear before that the Behringer Amp 800 probably does not belong in the same class as other headphone amps which are better quality and more expensive. I know people who really like certain models of certain brands of headphone amplifiers (or headphones or microphones or speakers...). I know others who hate those same models. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. And, here I'm referring to ones that are supposed to be "top of the line". I was using Grado as an arbitrary example and nothing more. If you don't like the Grado headphone amplifier, I do not have a problem with that. Perhaps you would like the Behringer 800 Amp.
Regarding this being blunt issue, at no time was I ever trying to hurt anyone's feelings. I was accused of bashing the review and systema. That, IMO, is not true. I did not bash systema and I did not bash the review. (If, I have the correct definition of "bash" which would be to degrade something or someone in a deliberately hurtful way.) I certainly disagreed very strongly with the review but, once again, I did not bash either it or systema.
You are right, I don't care if people don't like my review or agree with it. As I wrote previously, "everyone is entitled to their own opinion." I'll repeat once again, I did not bash the review or the reviewer. But, point by point ('systematically") I showed where I strongly disagreed with it. I see nothing wrong with that. If you believe there is something wrong with that, I strongly suggest to you that you never involve yourself in a formal debate.
By the way, the expression (excerpted) is "...the pot calling the kettle black." Not, the "chicken" (black). The expression is about irony. There is no irony in the idea of a pot calling a chicken black. It's a strange and possibly humorous thought to imagine a pot talking to a chicken and calling the chicken "black" but it isn't what I would call ironic.
No, you didn't actually insult my intelligence because I didn't let that happen. However, (and I wrote previously words to this effect), your comments were intelligence insulting. In other words your words sounded as if they could be perceived as intelligence insulting. I don't even know you. Why would I let your words effect my emotions? That doesn't make sense to me at all.
As far as your comment about "bullies" is concerned, what does that have to do with these communications or with you, me or systema? Were you calling me a "bully"? Is that what you were attempting to communicate?
It seems to me, by way of the definition of the word "bashing" as I understand it, that systema, in the review, was the one who was doing the "bashing" of the Behringer AMP 800. If you don't think so, I suggest you read systema's review once again. In places, it is certainly not worded "nicely", IMO.
One last thought I want to share with you and anyone else who would be interested: I understood Florian Koenig to say that he does not use a headphone amplifier. If you don't believe this, listen to the recordings of him in these forums. He is what I consider to be one of the standard bearers regarding headphones. If he doesn't use headphone amps, than why should I be criticized for not using them at home for my personal listening?
Now, may we stop arguing about this now? I meant nothing hurtful to anyone at any time. Yes, IMO, my disagreements were definite and very much to the point. However, if you think my disagreements were hurtful in any way, I would say that you are the one who would be well advised to "grow a thicker skin".