Behold the Marantz SA-7S1!
Aug 3, 2007 at 8:57 PM Post #46 of 73
Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hankins /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Mark,
Walter lives a few miles from me. (When hes not in Hawaii) And I have had good results with him in the past. I have read the bad info on American theater in the discussion forums on audiogon. It does not matter now since I dropped my tonearm and destroyed an 1800.00 cartridge on my table yesterday. Needless to say thats where my money will be going.
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my condolences! That's not a pleasant way of getting rid of 1800 dollars.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 4:14 AM Post #47 of 73
Come on, Mark, you've had over a month since your last post to put more hours on the Marantz.

What are your impressions of the player now?
 
Sep 11, 2007 at 3:02 AM Post #48 of 73
Hi DeeJayBump,
It's been away all this time being modified (has taken a bit longer than expected). In case you missed it, here is my full review of the stock player which has more info than appears here:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...arantz_7S1.htm


After it gets back from the Mod Man, anything I say here at Head-Fi will have to be brief and vague.
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A full follow-up will appear in Positive Feedback for whom I now write. I will post links as soon as the review of the mod-ed unit is up over there.

Cheers.
 
Sep 11, 2007 at 3:26 AM Post #50 of 73
Does the new transport actually compete evenly with the VRDS Neo beast? I myself am getting a used UX-1 inc Friday that someday, when the cash recoops, will be modded by APL.
 
Sep 11, 2007 at 1:29 PM Post #51 of 73
Quote:

Does the new transport actually compete evenly with the VRDS Neo beast? I myself am getting a used UX-1 inc Friday that someday, when the cash recoops, will be modded by APL.


My guess is that the new Marantz transport is probably the second best transport on the market right now behind the VRDS NEO, but I'm just speculating. Not an engineer and haven't taken them apart side-by-side to compare.


BTW, there are rumors aplenty right now about about a forthcoming Marantz SA-11S2, replacement for the popular SA-11S1. The new S2 *may* have the same transport as the SA-7S1 (but has it been cost-reduced for the 11S2?), and *may* use the same new chip set as the SA-7S2 with the fancy new DACs. It will lack the robust power supply and improved analog output section of the 7S1, as well as missing a few other technical goodies and will come in a less massive and rigid chassis. Still, it is speculated it will cost considerably more than the old 11S1, but not as much as the current 7S1.
 
Sep 11, 2007 at 2:29 PM Post #52 of 73
Congrats again, Mark.

Btw, the September issue of "The Absolute Sound" has a nice writeup about the SA-7S1 by Robert E. Greene*. He focuses almost entirely on the filters, some of the theory behind them, & their various affects. In the end, he advocates using your own ears to determine what sounds best to you & for your favorite material (as it seems to vary), but seems to think it is a very worthwhile feature.

(* The photos for the article mistakenly show the SC-7S1 integrated amp, but pg. 23 has an Marantz advert for the SACD player with a proper picture.)
 
Sep 11, 2007 at 2:47 PM Post #53 of 73
The new Hi-Fi Choice from the UK has the SA-7S1 on the cover with the blurb "Best CD Player Ever?"
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The "review" is quite skimpy with their own impressions of the player's sound, but they scored it extremely high and it seems to be ranked as their new reference CD player at any price (right in between several full-page ads for the player and the rest of the new line of matching gear).
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Sep 11, 2007 at 4:29 PM Post #55 of 73
Yeah I also want to know a bit more about these dacs does Marantz have exclusivity on them? They do sound interesting.

Ah, its good to know the VRDS NEO is still on top. I would think it'd be pretty hard to surpass since its a pretty ridiculous, cost is no object approach to the whole transport problem. Retardedly tank-like, over-engineered, over built solution. I love it.

I love this picture:
http://www.aplhifi.com/VRDSNEO/VRDSstack

The vrds neo stacked up against 3 transports that were/are used in the EMM labs cdsa (Actually new version uses a smaller more plasticky transport)/denon/marantz/ayre 5cxe/sony scd players.

Does it really affect sound quality that much having this transport in your player? Probably not laf.
 
Sep 11, 2007 at 7:01 PM Post #56 of 73
Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
My guess is that the new Marantz transport is probably the second best transport on the market right now behind the VRDS NEO, but I'm just speculating.


Let me play the Devil's advocate...
Transports have 3 basic tasks: (1) read the bits off the media; (2) correct read errors; (3) transfer the data and timing information to the DAC with minimal noise.
I'd say that tasks (1) and (2) are "trivial" for today's high-badwidth computer readers. Perhaps 20 years ago it was important to read the data right on the first try, but current readers really don't work in real-time. Data is always buffered in memory and a computer checks its integrity. If errors are detected, then they are either corrected by computational means or the computer decides to re-read the data once again. Since the data is buffered and the reader has much more bandwidth than required by the audio stream, re-reading the data can be done without interrupting the stream of output data to the DAC, i.e. it is not causing a "dropout" error. That's not new. Portable CD players use this "electronic anti-shock" trick for over a decade.
The main factor which affects sound quality of modern transports is the third task of transferring the data and timing information noise-free. Here we are dealing with high speed serial data transfers, which are affected by radio frequency interference and are far more sensitive to the quality of the transfer media (cable) and impedance on both ends than low-frequency signals.
This problem is especially severe between seperate transport and DAC units, due to the physical length of the cable and sometimes due to the transfer protocol.
Part of issue (3) is the clock source itself. The high-speed modern readers "just read bits". Data is buffered in memeory and transfered to the DAC based on a local electronic clock, not the spin-rate of the media. The quality of this clock can make a difference, and this might be the one place that a modern transport can be enhanced. The trick is to install a low noise clock, not necessarily freuency-accurate, like some "super clock mods" offer... Clock quality is affected by the quality of its power supply, so that's another place for potential improvement.
Perhaps we should add item (4) to the list. It is possible that some read hardware in the transport "fixes" the data for you in some manner. For me, this kind of extra processing is just distortion, but it might be part of some cheap reader, aimed at the lowest cost product. Let's hope it's not too common...
Bottom line is that modern basic DVD readers are fine transports from a technical perspective, provided they have a low-noise clock and power supply. The concept of re-working the mechanical part of the transport is not technically viable, although it does have other attractive aspects...
 
Sep 11, 2007 at 7:49 PM Post #57 of 73
Yeah it sure looks cool.
 
Sep 11, 2007 at 8:03 PM Post #58 of 73
Hi Ori, I'm no position (nor do I wish to) to debate the relative merits or lack thereof of various transports (or whether they make a difference or not at all). I hear you, but note you are a maker of outboard DACs for whom it would be very good if indeed a transport is a transport is a transport. Then there are the designers/engineers at Sony, Phillips, Teac/Esoteric, Marantz, JVC/Combak/Reimyo, CEC, etc. who are equally convinced they've built a better moustrap with their various models (past and present) of superior and better built transports for CD and SACD players.

I also have a lot of experience with things in audio (like cables, eh, Ori
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) that are scientifically "unable" to make a difference but do.

In any case, I see no "harm" in over-building a transport if it leads to longer life and higher reliability than the scores of absolutely horrible low-end cheapie transports we continue to read about failing all the time. I myself had to have a transport replaced on a CD player, and believe me, it stinks!
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Sep 11, 2007 at 11:39 PM Post #59 of 73
Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
In any case, I see no "harm" in over-building a transport if it leads to longer life and higher reliability than the scores of absolutely horrible low-end cheapie transports we continue to read about failing all the time. I myself had to have a transport replaced on a CD player, and believe me, it stinks!
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I'm with you on the reliability issue as I had to dump a very good "transport" for the same reason... I'm just not enthusiastic about the "super tank" concept... There got to be a better compromise for sure.
This is especially a sad situation, given that in a short time all our music will come from non-mechanical sources, either downloaded or read-only memory (ROM) devices. It's unlike vinyl vs. digital, which have undoubtedly different qualities, because the content of plastic discs vs. ROM would be bit-matched, and I doubt anyone would claim superiority to the spinning media - but who knows.
Regarding my involvement in the DAC market, notice that I actually said that there is an advantage to the integrated player (for current CD media), so it's sort of like "shooting myself in the foot". I think that "gutsy" statement shows enough impartiaility on all the claims...
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Sep 12, 2007 at 2:31 AM Post #60 of 73
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yeah I also want to know a bit more about these dacs does Marantz have exclusivity on them? They do sound interesting.

Ah, its good to know the VRDS NEO is still on top. I would think it'd be pretty hard to surpass since its a pretty ridiculous, cost is no object approach to the whole transport problem. Retardedly tank-like, over-engineered, over built solution. I love it.

I love this picture:
http://www.aplhifi.com/VRDSNEO/VRDSstack

The vrds neo stacked up against 3 transports that were/are used in the EMM labs cdsa (Actually new version uses a smaller more plasticky transport)/denon/marantz/ayre 5cxe/sony scd players.

Does it really affect sound quality that much having this transport in your player? Probably not laf.



Wow, that IS some transport.
 

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