Behold the Marantz SA-7S1!
Jul 31, 2007 at 4:44 PM Post #31 of 73
Nope, it's a completely new transport. The Phillips is a top loader with puck system anyway.

I'm at 125 hours burn-in, roughly half way or so. I'll post more impressions later today as warranted.
 
Jul 31, 2007 at 10:06 PM Post #32 of 73
[size=small]Day 5 Impressions, 125 Hours of Burn-In.[/size]
If you don't already have one-- buy a Radio Shack Level Meter! There is no more useful audio tool you can own. It's a cheap $40 bucks or so, and some of the best money you'll ever spend in this hobby.

You cannot trust your ears to tell you when two components are level matched. A difference of even half a db can tip the scales in favor of a particular component or make you believe two identical components are different.

Shame on me-- I did not use my meter when I did my initial impressions of the Marantz vs. my modified Sony. Remember when I said that I had to crank my amp to the 11:00 position to get the same volume level as the Sony gave me at 10:00? Well, as it turns out, the two units are level matched when the Sony is at 10:00 and the Marantz is set at the half-way point between 10:00 and 11:00. This is a difference of 3db, and that's significant.

So why did my ears tell me they were the same at 10:00 and 11:00? Three possibilities:

1. My hearing is perfect and during the subsequent 125 hours of break-in, the unit's output has increased by 3 whole db. Possible, but unlikely.

2. There is a treble roll-off of 3db in the Marantz vs. the Sony. Ten seconds of listening to the Marantz will tell you that's just not true. But again, I have not used a test CD to measure tones to verify this, so take with a grain of salt. Still most gear today measures ruler flat anyway, and IME, those specs are of limited use anyway compared to your own ears.

3. The smooth, unfatiguing liquid sound of the Marantz fooled my ears to the tune of 3db. Now I tend to listen loud (but safe-- use that meter, and never listen at levels that cause any sign of fatigue), and the Marantz appears to give me 3 extra db to play with before I start to get those advanced warning signs of fatigue. It took 3 extra db to bring the Marantz up to the level where I got the same "tickle" or "excitement" or sense of "texture" as I do from the Sony. So, the Marantz may be 3db "cleaner" or "smoother" than the Sony, giving you that extra headroom before the first tingly warning signs of fatigue show up.

I tend to go with explanation #3. And here's where there may be a slight red flag for a certain kind of listener. I've often read reviewers describe the "texture" of a component as a positive attribute. To me, if there's "texture" to the sound, that means there's distortion or grain, plain and simple. Listening to the SA-7S1, you wonder where the hell the digital grain went? It just ain't there.

I happen to *love* the sound (or lack of sound) of zero grain. For me, grain gets in the way of the music and reminds you you're listening to audio instead of music. But I can see some people being suspicious of the textureless, edgeless, grainless, flowing liquid sound of the Marantz. Is that actually a coloration, or is it in fact a lack of coloration? That's a deep philosophical question along the lines of the sound of one hand clapping, and I don't have the answer for that... Me, I only know two things-- "I like" and "I don't like". I like the "sound" of the Marantz.
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OK, so now that I've level-matched the two players, do my initial impressions of the Marantz still stand? Yes.

It doesn't do everything well (but I'm confident these things can be corrected with mods), but let me start with the positives.

Hands down, the Marantz images and throws a soundstage like nothing I've ever heard before. The soundstage size is nothing short of HUGE, and has a vast and profound sense of depth that's simply stunning. I know there are people who object to big soundstages, but sorry, as you upgrade and get better gear, a bigger, better soundstage is just one of the natural consequences. Deal with it!
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A/B-ing between the Marantz and Sony makes the Sony's already big soundstage just sound puny. The Marantz "life-sizes" or "right-sizes" images of the performers. They are as big as life, holographically portrayed, and eerily realistic. If soundstaging and imaging are hot-buttons for you, you are gonna love the Marantz.

The bass is developing nicely with burn-in. TIGHT doesn't even begin to describe it, it *growls*. The tone of the bass is also incredibly realistic, fluid, and nuanced. Still missing a bit of the grunt force of the Sony, but closing in, and well within the limits of what complete burn-in can do.

Speaking of tone, again, I have to hand it to the Marantz, it's a tone machine. It's always reminding you of what music is all about. It's not that the Marantz is gooey, honeyed, sweet, lush, over-cooked-- it absolutely isn't. If anything, it could be faulted for being a tad on the dry, prosaic side. I don't know how it does it, but it reveals a whole new sonic pallette of tones and timbres in your old work horse recordings you thought you knew like the back of your hand.

I've often said you can tell a lot about a component by the way it handles tape hiss. The Marantz seems to naturally suppress the sound of tape hiss. That, or it "right-sizes" tape hiss dynamically compared to the actual sounds captured on that tape. Tape hiss should be low in level and unobtrusive, but some gear can compress the sound, forcing the level of the tape hiss up higher in the mix. The Marantz doesn't do that. Instead, the tape hiss is discrete, exceptionally smooth and analog sounding. It's not as granular, or "digital" sounding as the Sony. Yes, again, it doesn't have the same "texture" as it does on the Sony. It has no texture in fact, whether you like it or not!

OK, that's the good news. The bad news?

The background of the Marantz is just not as black as the Sony, and the sound is just not as palpable as the Sony. There's a teeny-tiny bit of fog and distance between you and the music, not noticeable unless you have something to compare against that does not have it. I don't think burn-in will fully address this, but it's still within the realm of possibility.

The Marantz still does not have the sheer power, force, and heft of the Sony, and I suspect that will always be out of its range no matter how many hours of burn-in are applied (though it has improved somewhat). The Sony just can't be beat (in any source I've heard) in terms of sheer slam, pop, thrust, heave, and oomph. And that's all down to the hot-rodding it's undergone.

The more I listen to the Marantz, the more impatient I get to have it modified, but my mod man won't touch it until it's all the way burned-in. At the risk of sounding like an advertisement, I'm convinced mods work, and make good on their essential value proposition of taking mass-produced components up to unheard-of levels of performance at a ridiculously low cost. When this unit gets modified, I'm confident it's going to mop the floor with anything in its price class and several steps above.

Yes, you void your warrantee, and that ain't no small thing. But that's a risk I'm willing to take and have taken many times in the past, all with excellent results.

OK, there will be one more report when the unit reaches full maturity at close to 300 hours of burn-in before it goes off to be modified.

See you then!
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Jul 31, 2007 at 11:30 PM Post #33 of 73
Have you used the phase inverter much? My source has this and I love it, but I wonder how much difference it would make on any other player. With my Cyrus I can pretty much hear within a couple switches which polarity is better. The soundstage will be a bit more closed in when it's right, but in a natural way. I think a lot of the reason that so many recordings are out of phase is to actually use that extra spacious effect. Problem is the extra space is more like space between you and the music, not soundstage extension. OK Computer is a great example, it's not generally regarded as hi-fi, but when you invert the polarity the music just pops. All the strange noises focus in to compliment the real heart of the music. That's being a bit dramatic but that's how I feel about it. Also the bass tightens up very nicely.
 
Aug 1, 2007 at 11:31 AM Post #34 of 73
Congrats on your new source. I have been interested in these players since they came out. Now with your review and the sale american theatre is having on audiogon this might be my chance to get one and have it modded for less than retail cost. Thanks for info.
 
Aug 1, 2007 at 1:47 PM Post #35 of 73
Tom, do some research on American Theater Systems before you buy (and question their assertion they are an "authorized dealer"), and do not trust their audiogon feedback. That's all I'll say about that.

If you want a great deal from a reliable authorized dealer, go here: http://www.underwoodhifi.com/


Quote:

Have you used the phase inverter much?


Only a few times. I wish there was a way to flip the phase without having to stop the music and start it again.
 
Aug 1, 2007 at 1:58 PM Post #36 of 73
Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWoundsTime /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Have you used the phase inverter much? My source has this and I love it, but I wonder how much difference it would make on any other player. With my Cyrus I can pretty much hear within a couple switches which polarity is better. The soundstage will be a bit more closed in when it's right, but in a natural way. I think a lot of the reason that so many recordings are out of phase is to actually use that extra spacious effect. Problem is the extra space is more like space between you and the music, not soundstage extension. OK Computer is a great example, it's not generally regarded as hi-fi, but when you invert the polarity the music just pops. All the strange noises focus in to compliment the real heart of the music. That's being a bit dramatic but that's how I feel about it. Also the bass tightens up very nicely.


I love these kinds of impressions. Thanks, NWT!
 
Aug 1, 2007 at 3:16 PM Post #37 of 73
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Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
OK, so I put my RAM modified Sony XA9000ES back into my stack so I can directly A/B against the un-broken-in Marantz. The stock Marantz is every bit as good as my modified Sony. They have a different sound, and they output at a different volume level, so direct A/B is difficult, but not impossible.


That's all well and fine, but can you identify either in a properly executed A/B test versus a moderately priced portable CD player? **

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Congratulations on the new ear toy Mark, a very nice product indeed.
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** Just in case anyone didn't get that, it was a (semi) private joke. That's not an invitation to open the thread to that line of discussion.

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Aug 1, 2007 at 4:16 PM Post #38 of 73
Congrats Markl!

A beautiful player! Glad you're enjoying the sound.
 
Aug 1, 2007 at 5:10 PM Post #39 of 73
I'm from Austria, and I've followed this thread with great interest because I consider buying the Marantz SA-7S1 myself.

I find your postings very useful for my decision. At the moment I'm using a Accuphase DP-67 on an ASR Emitter II Exclusive with some B&W 800D loudspeakers. So my question is, if by any chance you know the DP-67 and can comment on it in comparison with the Marantz

Thanks and Best Regards
 
Aug 1, 2007 at 5:39 PM Post #40 of 73
Hi, I've never had the chance to listen to any Accuphase gear, so I can't comment.
 
Aug 2, 2007 at 9:52 AM Post #42 of 73
Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Tom, do some research on American Theater Systems before you buy (and question their assertion they are an "authorized dealer"), and do not trust their audiogon feedback. That's all I'll say about that.

If you want a great deal from a reliable authorized dealer, go here: http://www.underwoodhifi.com/


Only a few times. I wish there was a way to flip the phase without having to stop the music and start it again.




Mark,
Walter lives a few miles from me. (When hes not in Hawaii) And I have had good results with him in the past. I have read the bad info on American theater in the discussion forums on audiogon. It does not matter now since I dropped my tonearm and destroyed an 1800.00 cartridge on my table yesterday. Needless to say thats where my money will be going.
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Aug 2, 2007 at 11:05 AM Post #43 of 73
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebby /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I really want to listen to some accuphase gear. I wonder if I can find a local high end audio store to do some A/B'ing with my own equipment.


The latest accuphase cdplayer should be a really nice one. I saw it, didn't listen to it but it looks wonderfull and very robust! it's about 5400 euro's over here, i think.
 
Aug 3, 2007 at 5:31 PM Post #44 of 73
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Originally Posted by hifirunner /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm from Austria, and I've followed this thread with great interest because I consider buying the Marantz SA-7S1 myself.

I find your postings very useful for my decision. At the moment I'm using a Accuphase DP-67 on an ASR Emitter II Exclusive with some B&W 800D loudspeakers. So my question is, if by any chance you know the DP-67 and can comment on it in comparison with the Marantz



hifirunner, I got Marantz SA-11S1 a couple years ago. A friend of mine had suggested me get Revox B-225, and I got a 18-year-old unit from a first-hand owner from eBay. To my surprise, the SA-11S1 sounds thin and dry compared to the Revox. I took my Revox to compare with my friend's Accuphase DP-67 and they sound very similar. Redbook CDs sound very musical on the Revox and the DP-67. The SA-11S1 is good at delivering details and the sound stage of SACDs. I don't think you will prefer the Marantz to the Accuphase.

I also got $180 Zhaolu 2.0C DAC from Hong Kong. This "giant-killer" DAC, at the stock condition, delivers 80-90% of the Revox's sonics !!! Even the transport is a $80 Samsung universal player with a S/PDIF ouput.
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I shipped my Zhaolu to Ori to replace the output stage section with $450 Oritek Discrete one, also a $25 2.0A DA board from Hong Kong. I would decribe the new sonics when playing a well-mastered CD is as musical as you can get from the DP-67, while details and the sound stage are at least as prominent and "clean" as SA-11S1's when playing an SACD.
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I wouldn't believe this without experience it myself. I have never seen an mid/top-end Accuphase owner as a convert.
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However, it may depend on your current musical preference.
 

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