[eighteen_psi]

First off, a big thanks to Bob for hosting…cool place

I took a couple rolls of pictures that I should have developed and scanned up by the end of the week here. Bob took a few too so we should be well covered for gear/people pics. I have limited time to devote to this tonight so I’ll go through all the cans (I’m sure I’ll miss some) and hit the amps later when I have more time. On to the impressions (in my opinion, to my ears). There, I said it.

EDIT: I have to do sources and music too.

Also, props to my "outside friend" Eric for coming and putting up with our audio-banter for hours on end. He thinks all y'all are nuts

He did actually have a listen to a lot of cans and offered up a good discussion over our dinner after we left. Perhaps he'll come around after all.

I also thought it might be good to clarify who was who while this is still fresh (everyone can identify themselves with useful details as they post or whatever). Names are always tough at internet gatherings like this.

ME = Derick Shaw = eighteen_psi = jeans + red long sleve shirt & blue vest = pair of cameras ablaze = HD580 & 'rigged together' Aluminum multiloop amp.

CANS BY MANUFACTURER:

**Sennheiser**
Last meet (I attended) I said I thought the HD580 was very similar to the HD600 and that opinion stands…even more so than before. Cable for cable, amp for amp, source for source, they cans are similar to the point where I could rarely tell them apart. That said, I still stand by my purchase of the 580’s and while I’d like an upgrade to a 600 or 650 eventually, the Senn-sound is still my favorite overall.
Speaking of the HD650, I didn’t get enough listening time alone to give a detailed analysis (opinion that is) of their sound but compared to the 600, the difference is far greater than say, 580->600. The extra bit of detail in the midrange is just enough to make them obviously superior (where, to my ears, the 600 is more ‘refined’ than the 580 but its hard to put your finger on WHAT is more refined). I also didn’t get much A/B time with the 650 cable options but I can say the HD650 + Silver Dragon + Sugden Headmaster was my overall favorite combination today. Everything I put in sounded great. It had everything I love about my setup only more so. (Granted for many times the money once interconnects and exotic power cables are factored in). Good day for the Sennheisers in my opinion. 580/600 stock stayed where it was (high), 650 stock opens at the top of the class.

**Grado**
I sold my SR325 mainly because I couldn’t stand to listen to its ruthlessly bright highs for long enough to get into the music. The 225s don’t seem to exhibit this obnoxious characteristic nearly as much. If they were more comfortable to wear (flat pads help but not enough for me) I’d put them pretty close to my HD580s for listening enjoyment.
I liked the HP1000 but not nearly as much as I thought I would (or hoped I would?). It was like the SR325, but far smoother. Like the RS1 but far more detailed. The sound just didn’t do something for me no matter what I plugged them into.
Speaking of the RS1, I can’t say I really liked them all that much. For the money (especially with the balanced cables on a blockhead), they had little bass and the highs were clear but not strikingly so. I wanted to like the Grados more than I actually did today. 225 stock rose, blue-chip stock fell quite a bit.

**AudioTechnica**
A close second on my list of favorite rigs was the W1000 with either of the two tube amps present…quite a nice combo. Wood cans always seem to something special for me (other than the RS1 in this case) so I’m not surprised I still like the AT’s quite a bit. More time to check the whole range of AT’s would have been nice. I didn’t listen at great length (the majority of my time was spent A/B/C’ing the Senns but overall, AT stock a bit from where I put it last meet.

**Sony**
Perhaps the most radical change in my opinion between this meet and the last was my level of appreciation for the tank-like CD3000. Last time, I said the 3K + Headmaster was perhaps my favorite rig but this go round, my ears have had the better part of a year to conform to/enjoy/ or what have you to the sound of my HD580 and I’ve found I no longer enjoy the 3K’s too much. They’re similar enough to the Senn’s that I can see how some people like them as a ‘closed HD600’ variant but that said, they’re no 600 and certainly no 650 as far as I can tell. That plus the fact that a look over your shoulder will fling the monstrous things from your head. I’m not sure if I’m so used to my 580’s that the 3K strikes a contrast or if I’ve ‘matured’ in my love for the super smooth Senn sound in general but CD3K stock fell today.
The only other Sony I listened to was the V6 which I found to be a fairly decent budget closed can…far superior to the infamous V600 (which I hate with a passion). V6 stock rose even though I only listened for a couple minutes.

**Etymotic**
I came today with a couple specific missions and one was to finally listen to a pair of Ety’s..and I did. I want a pair badly now. The isolation is stunning, the detail superb. They were a bit thin (though I wasn’t about to go licking Bob’s phones) but that could also be the fact that a PCDP and tiny (not sure what) amp was driving them. If they pick up a big of bass and fullness with a more powerful amp I dare say I’d sell my 580s to help fund a pair. I love my 580s dearly but these are so incredibly practical. I’d love to hear a pair powered by something a bit more robust and see if they’d suit me for home use. If so, you may be seeing the 580’s FS.

**Beyerdynamic**
I listened briefly to the DT880 and another pair (forget the designation) but not enough to judge in depth. They sounded somewhere in between say, an SR225 and HD580/600 in terms of being bright and were punchier with drum-bass than the 580s. My judgment at this point is that they were fine sounding phones… That’s about all. Sorry


AMPS (In brief):
I’ll add more of my impressions a bit later (or tomorrow or something) when I have some time. Gotta get a few things done for class tomorrow morning. Overall, I’m glad I got some feedback on my amp from a few people (Morsel tore into the poor thing pretty good) That said, despite its haggard (internal) appearance it surprised me by sounding almost identical to the Gilmore V2 I A/B’d with. My little beast had more gain than most everything in the room but lacked some clarity in the highs (I never noticed before but A/B’ing with a bunch of nicer/pricier gear brings out things like that. For bass, the Sugden was the only amp I heard that had more ‘punch’ for my CDs but all of the “big” amps I tried surpassed mine in transparency (most by a small margin, a couple by a larger one) and high-end clarity. At least I can quantify it’s main deficiency now (even though I lack monies to do anything about it).
No one made the painful mistake of turning my multiloop above 20% or so this go round either

Refined its not, but powerful it damn sure is.
More amp reporting later

 

[daycart1]

Thanks for the report! A little off topic if you don't mind: what amp were you using with the Grado 325? I agree that the difference between SEnn 580 and 600 is minimal. I'll bet it is so small that some 580 units outperform some 600s even if the reverse if usually true.

 

[eighteen_psi]

Quote:

Originally posted by daycart1 Thanks for the report! A little off topic if you don't mind: what amp were you using with the Grado 325? I agree that the difference between SEnn 580 and 600 is minimal. I'll bet it is so small that some 580 units outperform some 600s even if the reverse if usually true.

I mentioned to a couple people today offhand that I thought the 580 could, in fact, out perform the 600 actually...funny you mentioned that. I think the difference is 'luck of the draw' more than actual model-line differences. The 650 is another matter, however.

The 325s were driven with the same beast that powers my 580s...a custom multiloop with more power than it knows what to do with. Its not the best setup for a low impedence phone for sure (screaming-loud at less than 10% volume). I heard them directly from my SlimX 350 and my Onkyo A-5 (1978 Integrated Amp) and they showed the same traits (at lower volumes) so I figured it was the cans, not my amp that made them a bad fit for me.

 

[gpalmer]

I also had a great time although I didn't get enough time with any of the systems except the Melos to make any impressions I formed very worthwhile. Chinchy brought his stock Melos and he, bobjew and I spent some time comparing it against the Gilmore SE with the HP-1s. It was a really close matchup, one that I couldn't evaluate without a lot more listening, even without tube rolling and carlo mods to the Melos, I can see why so many folks have been so favorably impressed. I would like to thank Bob for being such a wonderful and congenial host, without him and his hospitality there would have been no meet. Also thanks to Stoney for working with HeadRoom to get a nice line up of their amplifiers. Thanks to KurtW for bringing his prototype PPA, the time I spent with it A/B'd against the Gilmore SE was wonderful and really answered some nagging questions I have had. This was another pair of amps I would have to spend a good deal of time listening to before I could accurately detail the differences. And a big thank you to all who attended!

And a BIG thank you to both HeadRoom and Moon Audio for providing much of the gear that made this meet so special!

 

[lindrone]

lindrone => Steve => Asian guy with glasses in shorts, setting up the poor man's Philips 963 (the 763) hooked up to a Gilmore V2, and my friend's MPX3 (before it got moved).

eighteen, I didn't realize you were set on listening to the Ety's... otherwise you could've had a little time with my E5's and did a little side-by-side... The other people who tried it really liked it more than the Ety's.

Impression of the cans:

I liked the Sennheisers, there's still something about their sound which is very, very warm and beautiful. However, I didn't think there's enough difference between the HD600 + HD580 (just like eighteen though). Although the HD650 does take it to another level, the HD580 with the Mobius cable is almost approaching the same quality. Unfortunately the Mobius cable doesn't fit the other Sennheisers... so we couldn't tell how much further it'll improve the other Senns. At the end of it all, it makes me feel that there's something seriously wrong with the value stepping of the Sennheisers, HD650, as good as it is, is not worth the market price it is at right now. I wouldn't buy it at the price it's at, only if it came down another $100 at least.

Loved all of the Audio Technica headphones.. but then again, I may be completely biased in this regard. I loved the W2002's design, although it does seem overpriced... it's also a bit picky about which amp and source it goes with to get a better effect.

After seeing all the Grados, I can't really justifying spending any money on any of the Grados other than SR225. I felt somewhat the same about the Grados as eighteen. The SR225 strikes a good balance of forward & brightness & tonal balance. Other Grados keeps on pushing everything forward, but it just didn't seem to get any "better"... just feels louder & faster. Doesn't have the sense or the feel of any soundstage that all the other headphones were producing.

I was very, very surprised by the DT880, I never considered Beyerdynamics before, but they strike a very good balance between airy sound and punchiness. They have a laid back detail like the Senns, and they have a punchy low-end like the Grados. Yet they're something special all on their own. It's not like the HD590, where they attemped to get it more "punchy" with the Sennheiser sound. This is a much better tonal balance. I would recommend these headphones more now.

Sony CD3000, I loved them before.. and I still do. They do need to be paired up with darker amps to take out some of the brightness... but they're still the best combination of punchiness/resolution that I know of.

Sony V6 was pretty good, but below my expectation of what I thought they might sound like. If you took the A900 and stripped it down and made it very thin, it sounds like the V6. Although, I don't think you can escape that given the headphone is in a different price class. They are more comfortable than I had expected.

I finally got to listen to a MX400... not bad for a $12 earbud. I would still recommend it for those on a budget...

Of course, most of the day they were just sitting there... I decided to try them with my iPod for a little bit

As for my own headphones... The Shure E5 held up pretty well against the big cans... although at its price, still a weird value ratio to be had. You can't argue for the portability of the thing though. Of course I still think they beat the Ety's hands down. My A900 though, didn't fare so well against all the other headphones... they sound really bright & punchy, lacking an overall tonal roundness to them. Now they feel a lot more "sterile" than I used to think of them... I still like them, but they lack just a little bit of warmth. As for my HD590.. truth is.. I didn't even bother trying it on most set-ups.. I guess without the Equinox cable, they're probably not even worthy to be compared in this crowd.

Impressions on the amps:

I was surprised by the size of most of the headroom amps. They were small than I expected, since the picture on the website made them look so big. Certainly makes some of the amps a little more attractive. The Blockhead balanced is certainly a beast... and it is absolutely the most awesome set-up out here today. Of course, it was also hooked up to probably the best source in the house. Still though, it was huge and beautiful (just more of it to love!). Max, on the other hand, wasn't as great as I thought it would be.

Also got a chance to check out the Super Micro for the first time.. it is definitely better than the Super Mini, just the construction feels more solid, and it's much smaller. It's almost completely in-line due to its small size. Very impressive for something this small. BTW, this was the amp that was hooked up to the Ety ER-4S.

The amp I found most impressive, for my own personal reasons, were the Emmaline and the Gilmore SE. The Emmaline went very well with both my Shure E5 and the A900... It was just smooth and beautiful with the E5, and it calms down the A900 so it took out some of the harsh brightness and added a good amount of warmth. Gilmore SE is certainly worth the price of its smaller brother, the Gilmore V2. SE has such versatility, 3 inputs & outputs, gain switch with much more different gain levels, stepped volume switch... on top of that, it sounds even better than the Gilmore V2. Very, very impressed by it.

Miscellaneous items... PPA was very nice, I liked them, although probably would take Gilmore V2 over them for the versatility. I have to be careful of which amp to use with the E5... on one amp (the Grace.. I forgot which one, think it was gpalmer's), the stepped volume control is a little too low at one step (just the first step, btw), and too loud by the next step. So some amps with stepped volume knobs will not work for me.

Last notes...

eighteen may not have the best rig there.. his lonely iRiver was rarely ever visited in that corner of the room... Neither was my iPod anyway

However, he did have enough camera equipment to easily trounce any of us... what is that.. two SLR and a digital?... Now.. do me a favor and dump any film that had my face in it

 

[daycart1]

Thanks again. I'll be watching for the rest of the meet reports!

 

[soundboy]

Uhhhh....I was thinking the meet was next weekend

 

[nanahachi]

pics!!

Bob, you know you're my eyes and ears, so I am eagerly awaiting your impressions. Thanks lindrone, gpalmer, and eighteen_psi so far!!

 

[eighteen_psi]

Quote:

Originally posted by lindrone eighteen may not have the best rig there.. his lonely iRiver was rarely ever visited in that corner of the room... Neither was my iPod anyway However, he did have enough camera equipment to easily trounce any of us... what is that.. two SLR and a digital?... Now.. do me a favor and dump any film that had my face in it [/B]

Everyone except our host who, much to my surprise, had the whole damn place rigged with wireless flashes for his nikon

I have to strike a balance between audio gear, car gear and (currently the biggest drain) my design workstation.

Oh yeah..and rent/food/tuition

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally posted by soundboy Uhhhh....I was thinking the meet was next weekend

Heh, well the rest of us had it this weekend, but Bob was a really great host, he might let you come over next weekend! ( It's actually kind of funny, I almost did the same thing since I had it fixed in my mind that it was on Saturday, I can't tell you how glad I was when everyone started saying Sunday in the meet thread

)

 

[nanahachi]

Derick
I'm not trying to criticize your impressions whatsoever, but I am curious about what the source/amp setups where with the Grado HP1000 and RS-1 (seeing how I enjoy and own both). Feel free to like/dislike them, I'm just curious.

Actually, I'm interested in knowing what amps/sources you used with each phone, if you even remember. I am sure it was all a blur, and you probably will mention it in your amps/sources section, but do let us know what was paired with what.

thanks man! glad you had a great time.

 

[eighteen_psi]

The HP1000 was listened to on a handful of stuff I can picture but not name...perhaps someone can name off the pile of gear on the 'pricey' table?

The RS1 was terminated balanced so it got blockhead time. I heard someone mention that the RS1 is a newer version and thus not as good as an older one (

). At least I think I overheard that. Neither sounded bad (and I liked the HP1000 more than the RS1) but for the money the RS1 left me wondering 'where'd the rest go'. Especially when it came to bass.

I dare say my 325s had more 'kick' to em (but I obviously didn't A/B them cause I sold em).

 

[gpalmer]

I'm not sure what the pricey table was, but if was the ones by the HP-1s, the sources were

ModWrighted Pioneer 38a
Stock Wadia 830

The amps were from left to right as you faced the table:

Grace 901 (small box, silver front, black body) - driven from Wadia

carlo modded Sugden Headmaster - Nice looking shiny metal box, very attractive, lettering on top.

Emmeline HR-2 (small black box) - Drive from Pioneer

Gilmore V2 SE larger black box - it wandered around a lot and got hooked to pretty much every source there.

MPX3 plainly a tube amp!

 

[Habib]

It was my first meet and it was a lot of fun. My goal was to get a general feel for the equipments that I never heard before. Here are some of my thoughts after the meet.

First and for most, source is the most important part of any system. I think when you reach a certain level for both amp and headphone, you can't really quantify each and say, without a doubt, that one is better than the other. I really boils down to personal preference. However, a good source goes a long way to bring out the best of any system. I was particularly impressed with the Linn Ikemi, unfortunately I didn't get a chance to hook it up to my MPX3 to really get a feel of this player.

Secondly, ICs make a lot of different. I am not just talking about "appreciable change," but actual improvement of sound. I had the change to play with a pair of Virtual Dynamic Reference, and the improvement is very much appreciated. I only wish that I can afford a pair. In addition, zucable Mobius is my favorite unbalanced upgrade cable for the Sennheiser headphones. Followed by Cardas then the Moon Audio. I am not sure whether or not the Moon Audio cable was burn in, but its performance wasn't very good.

Lastly, sound signature and characteristics. Since most equipments at the meet were of very high quality, it was quite hard to pick out which was the best. I was very impressed with the modded Sudgen Headmaster and the Emmeline HR-2. The Headmaster has a very balanced tone throughout but is not flat. The HR-2 is very dynamic and has a very black background. I would be very happy to own either amp. On the other hand, I dont really feel that these two amps were "superior" to my own MPX3. Coupled with a good souce, my MPX3 actually sounded the most musical to me. Another head-fier told me at the meet that "everything sounds good out of your amp," which I think applis to other amps at the meet, but I think it shows that MPX3 definitely stand up to these other amps. I am not really showing off about my own equipment but rather I am just glad that I found a piece of equipment that suits my taste. I like my music more organic and full bodied. I am not really turned on by the cold analytical sound. As it turns out the MPX3 matches me quite well. So I think it's really important for each one to figure out what kind of sound they like and try to build a system that will reflect that preference. I think once you reach a certain level, there is no longer an undisputed "best amp." So it's very important to find out what you like.

 

[gpalmer]

Habib,

Were your impressions of the Silver Dragon based on using it with your MPX3? Even though I preferred the Silver Dragon on the other amps I've listened to it with, I thought it was terrible with the MPX3, I found the Cardas much better.