[Chinchy]

I too enjoyed the meet, although you won't find me in any of the pictures. I arrived fashionably late, perhaps a little too much so (uh, 4:15PM isn't that late for a noon meeting is it?). When I got there everything was in boxes and there were just 3 people--bobjew, gpalmer, and steve (I think? sorry, didn't catch your name).

Luckily for me though, gpalmer really wanted to hear the Melos SHA-1 / HP-1000 combo, and bobjew was still feeling hospitable to keep his place open. So we proceeded to have a mini-meet that blew away all my expectations and lasted almost as long as the real meet (about 3 hours). Gpalmer broke back out his Wadia and Pioneer sources, as well as his Gilmore amp, and we three had an A/B session comparing the different players and amps, all with gpalmer's HP-1 and my HP-2. It's a difficult task when you consider there's 2 headphones and 3 people, but at least both amps had 2 headphone outs, and the Pioneer had 2 source outputs, which made the job a little easier.

Honestly, I couldn't tell that much of a difference between the two amps, but that's because my ears aren't too sensitive or adept/accustomed to critical listening. But bobjew and gpalmer could tell subtle differences, so there you go. FWIW, the Gilmore amp had more bass than the Melos, and the Wadia/Melos combination sounded better than the Pioneer/Melos combo..

The only other amp I heard was bobjew's MPX3. Very nice, I liked it a lot and found it quite musical. I asked and found out that all of you didn't do the amp-power-down-watch-it-run shootout, which was a little disappointing. For the record, bobjew's MPX3 runs maybe 15 seconds or more when it's powered down. My Melos SHA-1 only runs for 1/2 second.

Lastly it was a jaunt down to bobjew's movie theater setup, and not sure if you guys got to check it out, but man, I'm jealous. If I had a screen that big, or that nice of a set up, I'd probably be happy for quite a while. That screen must have been like 10 feet wide... Bravo DV-1 player, LCD projector, nice thiel speakers with paradigm centers and rears and subwoofer. The picture looked nice, the sound was good, and boy I could really feel that subwoofer through the seat.

Oh, and on a side note, I satisfied my long time curiousity. I had been on the search for a good system that would properly play the really low notes on Christina Aguilera's "Infatuation" song off her Stripped album (track 6). At around 1:22 and 1:44 there are a set of bass notes that go really low and which, on everything I've heard it on, turns out to be more rumble than actual notes. To be honest, I was hoping for something that would give me distinct bass impact that would send shivers down my spine. Unfortunately, nothing I tried gave me this, including the 963sa, the Wadia, the Pioneer, out of the MPX3, Melos SHA-1, Gilmore, META42 amps. We took it down to bobjew's theater setup and turned the subwoofer way up. Still only get the rumbling, so we concluded that it's an inability of perhaps the synth or the recording equipment to record/reproduce that low of a note. But it sure was nice to hear/feel the rumble. All I can say is that I am no longer on the unending quest to upgrade my sources if it's a failing of the recording and not the source. I'll upgrade to a modded Sony 333ES and then leave it there for a while.

Then again, basshead-rumble-mania still reigns supreme, because if I have enough time and money, I'm gonna try picking me up a Cerwin Vega! EL36 Earthquake, an 18" folded Horn subwoofer that is meant for live gigging and is truly monstrous at like 3 1/2 feet each direction for height, width, and depth. Hook that up to my live gig setup (Mackie mixer, JBL Eon G-2's) and see if I can raise the roof. Literally. I will probably blow out my ear drums in the process, and never be able to hear again, but at least for those 2 seconds I will be in spine tingling heaven. How fitting that that will be the last thing I'll ever hear in my life.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Chinchy, tell me why it is that you don't own a DT770 then?

 

[Chinchy]

In the end it's all about laziness. Plus I'm familiar with the Grado sound and love it to pieces. I haven't yet had a chance to audition the DT-770s at any of the meets. But I see from your profile that you have a pair of 770 Pros. I would be amenable to trying out your 770's for a week, I can send you my address..

 

[Habib]

gpalmer: yes it was on my MPX3. I didn't know how to explain it but the Silver Dragon was pretty unpleasant, Cardas was nice but Mobius pulls out ahead.

 

[eighteen_psi]

Quote:

Originally posted by gpalmer ModWrighted Pioneer 38a Stock Wadia 830 Grace 901 (small box, silver front, black body) - driven from Wadia carlo modded Sugden Headmaster - Nice looking shiny metal box, very attractive, lettering on top. Emmeline HR-2 (small black box) - Drive from Pioneer Gilmore V2 SE larger black box - it wandered around a lot and got hooked to pretty much every source there. MPX3 plainly a tube amp!

Thats the one. The MPX3 sounded great with the 650s and, as I already mentioned, I loved the headmaster (wasn't aware it was modified at the time but that could explain why I liked it even more than the last one I heard). The emmeline fed the AT's for most of my listening (though they sounded awesome with the MPX3 as well). The HP-1000 got some listening time on all of the amps on this table (for me) and, as I said before I wasn't impressed on a level I thought I should be. I already covered the RS1/blockhead impressions.

 

[Stoney]

My impressions aren't very organized, but I'll see what I can say...

First, thanks to Bob and everyone who lugged their equipment along (gpalmer had a truckload) and for sharing their thoughts and time. I wish I could have been more relaxed and visted more with everyone, but I was nervous about keeping track of all the Headroom product, and listening to cables for my HD650. Plus, I was on a schedule to come home to help my wife (building furniture alone that day). Not to mention the stress of the last week! (I got to tell the story to Leeav on the way home, but it never came up at the meet.)

It must be said that the Headroom stuff didn't get a fair listen. They were off on a side table with no decent source. The Max is in fact almost as good as the Blockhead, certainly so if you drive both off the same unbalanced source.

The Blockhead was quite excellent, but a bit on the analytical side of the fence. Not that there's anything wrong with that! ;^)

But, there was something going on with the balanced headphone cables. On the Blockhead, my HD650s and the Cardas cable sounded, how do I say, a bit excessive at times in the lower mids, a bit shouty sometimes. The Silver Dragon balanced was more controlled, having a flatter and more restrained yet detailed enough sound.

Or perhaps something was amiss with the unbalanced Silver Dragon: it sounded flat in the best AND worst sense of the word. No life. I wonder if it has been broken in at all... if it was a loaner, perhaps not. I'd hate to dismiss it without more data on a broken-in pair. Please comment if anyone knows....

The Cardas unbalanced had just a bit of that shouty effect, but was much better than the Silver Dragon unbalanced.

My unbalanced tests were on the MPX3. As gpalmer comments, perhaps there was an interaction going on there.

In general, though, I liked the two MPX3s. Very musical, not too bright (my pet peeve). However, they aren't the most focused in terms of image or detail. I think this is most traceable to, IIRC, being a zero feedback design. In a high resolution system, I tend to find zero feedback designs to be a bit unfocused in terms of image, a bit less able to get tiny inner details, and a bit more likely for tube characteristics to make a huge difference, rolling wise. What they do well in spades is stay musical and bloom like wildflowers in spring.

I heard the newer MPX3 as it was warming up, and it was quite bright then. I attribute it to the amp only because I was warned about that. Seemed to be true. This is a negative for me, as much of my headphone listening is impromptu and brief.

I wish I had a Perreaux on hand. It may be a nice balance between warm and musical, yet more focused and detailed. I heard image specificity and separation of voices in raging choir with the older Perreauxs I had here many weeks ago. But, no chance to compare to the MPX3.

I never tried the Mobius on my HD650s due to too tight a fit. I should've done another three-way with the HD600s (Cardas and Moon), but didn't think of it in time. I'd love more comments on Cardas versus Mobius, as I will be choosing soon. I may also suggest to George Cardas (I'm acquainted) that he consider redesigning the cable with the HD650, to better optimize the synergy.

I had a brief listen with unfamiliar recordings and equipment to a PPA versus a Gilmore, using the cool toggle box. To me, I found the treble (massed voices) to be a bit spitty and hard to take on the Gilmore, but not so on the PPA. It was a quick decision for me, like 5 seconds (a running joke from earlier that day). I must add, though, that the toggle box, cables, warm-up, or any number of issues could have skewed my impressions, so I'll leave it to other people with more comparison time to give better assessments.

I missed doing decent comparisons with the better solid-state stuff, much of which may use discrete devices? I didn't find any of the opamp stuff that compelling, although pretty much all of the Headroom stuff I tested here at home was very listenable and good value (although I can't really say for the excellent Max and Blockhead, because I'm even less familiar with competition in that price category). I liked the Emmeline and the, uh... oh... what is the name? a silver unit sitting next to it? Anyway, a well-known unit of gpalmers (?) that sounded quite nice. I don't think I got time with the Grace, either.

I suppose my listening was at first focused on my selecting a cable for the HD650s (still unsure, except I know that the stock cable is pretty weak) and testing the MPX3. After that, I just had a sampling of the various headphones.

I must say, the HD650s are clearly better to my ear than any of the others. A close second was the Sony CD3000, with even more detail but just a bit too much lower treble brightness for me to tolerate. But, I see why people love it. May also differ depending on one's physiology, because right around 8k is where the resonance in the ear canal happens, so I've read.

The HD600 is close to the 650s, but clearly less controlled and detailed, and with recessed midrange, as others have commented here at length.

I've heard 580s and 590s on the same setup as the 600s in the past, and didn't find either of them acceptable, and both quite colored relative to the 600 in the midrange, most notably. I don't see why people compare the 580s to the 600s, much less the 650s, aside from already owning the 580s, and perhaps from having system-matched to the 580 sound. The 650s are pricey, but worth it in my view. I'd rather spend less on an amp or cable and get the 650s, for sure.

 

[caliguy100]

Me => caliguy100 => Steve => short dark hair, long sleeved button up shirt with multi color thin vertical stripes, Dark blue jeans

I would like to thank Bob for hosting the meet. He was very kind, a great host, and a good conversationalist. His home shows like an art exhibit. The walls were proudly adorned with nice pieces and his furniture was also very exquisite.

This was my first meet and I had a great time. There was a great deal of equipment and all of it was very nice. I only whish we had more time. Everyone was very kind and full of helpful information and impressions they were willing to share.


Cans

HD 580 and HD 600: I agree with others peoples impressions that these two cans sound very similar. On first impression I believe most would be hard pressed to pick out the differences, but I believe they are different. These two cans have that smoky almost dark sound that is trade mark of Sennheiser. Using the stock cable the 580’s sound appears to closer than the 600, sitting seven rows back as apposed to ten. Both are very smooth and detailed. Although, in my impression the 580 has less dimension compared to the 600. I got a better sense of depth and separation of instruments with the 600. When I used the Zu Mobius cable everything about these headphones was better. Immediately, listening with the 600, I was upgraded from a 10th row seat to the 1st row crushed velvet seat. The sound stage opened up brilliantly. That veiled sound that annoys some people was greatly reduced. Instead of listening to music through several layers of veils the Mobius stripped several of those layers away bringing the sound forward. Fine detailed was uncovered. The sound was very polished, detailed without being analytical. The 580’s sound stage also opened up and had upgraded seats. The sound was also more detailed and polished. The only thing the Mobius didn’t do for the 580 was greatly improve the dimensionality. It did improve the 580’s dimensionality but the 600 was far better.

HD 650: Again, I agree with most that there is a significant difference with the 650 than the 580 or 600. I didn’t hear 650 with the stock cable. I only listened to it with the silver dragon cable. They sounded less veiled and had an impressive sound stage. I get the impression that the Silver Dragon thinned out the sound a little and had a harsher sound than I liked. Maybe the cable needed to be broken in more. I would have loved to hear the HD 650 with the Mobius cables except the cable’s end would not fit into the headphone’s socket without screwing up the little tabs inside. I wasn’t going to damage someone else’s headphones. I didn’t listen to them long enough to get a good impression. The ambient noise also impeded my auditioning. Although the 650 is different from the 600 and 580 I am not sure if it is better. Different yes. Better I don’t know yet. I would have to listen to them longer. The 600 with the Mobius in my humble opinion competes well with the 650 and Silver Dragon.

Grado: These are fun cans. Listening to the different models it was my impression that they sounded clearer and more forward as I went up the model line. The sound got tighter and crispier as I went up the line. The sound stage did not improve much nor did the dimension. However, these headphones are very fluid. They kept my foot tapping and my fingers snapping. These are the perfect headphones for Rock music. Rather than listening to music one becomes part of the show with these headphones. It put me up on stage singing along side Robert Plant.

Amps

I got to listen to Bob’s tube amplifier. I really liked it. I like how he used different tubes. I didn’t listen to it long but I liked what I heard. I would describe the sound as rich.
I also took the Sugden for a spin and man is that nice. It is very musical. I wish I could have hogged it a little longer.

Gpalmer had a very nice assortment of toys. I like his Grace amplifier. The sucker was heavy and very well built. It is also very versatile. It had a very clean sound.

The Blockhead was very cool. Personally, I think the enclosure was over built, but still very cool. The sound was very powerful and detailed. Although, it sounded a little dry. The same could be said about the Max, but I could didn’t listen to it very long because of the buzz.

The Super Micro was very cool. I will get one of these little suckers soon. It will go well with my Ipod.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Stoney I liked the Emmeline and the, uh... oh... what is the name? a silver unit sitting next to it? Anyway, a well-known unit of gpalmers (?) that sounded quite nice.

That was the carlo modded Sugden Headmaster. I got a ton of very positive feedback on it, which I have to say impressed me. Going in to the meet I think it was a real dark horse compared with some of the other amplifiers that were there that had a lot more PR and are much better known. I thought it was great that so many members were really listening to the equipment and making up their minds instead of just parroting what others have said. To me this really shows how useful the meets are.

 

[lindrone]

I'm really, really lusting after that Gilmore V2 SE now... I never thought I would put down that much money for another Gilmore (I'm not completely happy with the Gilmore V2.. due to some brightness issues)... but the Gilmore V2 SE just completely blew me away. These meets are really beneficial on opening people up to more options.

Right now, I'm thinking either HR-2 or Gilmore V2 SE, but SE is higher on the list due to its flexibility...

btw, gpalmer, any word on the Gilmore Balanced yet?... Justin's still.. well.. like himself eh?

 

[dd3mon]

Quote:

Originally posted by lindrone I'm really, really lusting after that Gilmore V2 SE now... I never thought I would put down that much money for another Gilmore (I'm not completely happy with the Gilmore V2.. due to some brightness issues)... but the Gilmore V2 SE just completely blew me away.

Was the source the same? An amp like the Gilmore will reveal any kind of brightness your source has to offer.

-dd3mon

 

[andrzejpw]

all this gilmore comments make me ever so anxious for my v2 to get here later this week.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally posted by dd3mon Was the source the same? An amp like the Gilmore will reveal any kind of brightness your source has to offer.

Most of the meet the Gilmore SE was in the custody of Morsel and KurtW and I believe the source was KurtW's Linn Ikemi (sp?), which is a really awesome source, I wish I had gotten to hear the two more. Sadly, I haven't heard on the Gilmore Balanced yet!

I'm sure it will get here and it will be an amazing amplifier, it is just a matter of when!

 

[lindrone]

I tested the Gilmore V2 and V2 SE side by side on exactly the same source. Let me clarify, I was plenty happy with the way that Gilmore V2 performed before. However, after I had a side-by-side comparison, I had no doubt that the V2 SE was worth every extra cent that it costs...

Having hearing it integrated into my rig, it was everything I needed... so... yeah.. lusting after it now..

 

[Habib]

I was very impressed with the Headmaster as well. I would have been just as impressed with the HR-2 but I have unrealistic expectation of it that I can't really formulate an objective opinion. That does not mean however that HR-2 is not good. In fact it's just as good as advertised, see markl's review, that it's really not possible to impressed me beyond that.

I am also very impressed with the Gilmore V2 SE. I had owned a Gilomore V2 originally and pretty much hated it. Back then I had it hooked up to a HD580 and there is nothing good to say about that combination. Thus I was more than a little apprehensive when I was auditioning the Gilmore V2 SE with a pair of HD580. But that particular combination blew me away. I would very happily trade in my tube gear for that kind of performance. The caveat here is that I only hear the Gilmore V2 SE through the Linn Ikemi. So that may or may not have exaggerated its performance.

I hope I had remembered to hook up the HP-1000 to the Gilmore V2 SE. There was so much to play with that I complete forgot to hook those up. Also I should have hook up the Max to a more respectable source and really test it out.

 

[Tuberoller]

It sounds like you guys had a stinkin' ball. I wish I coulda been there.

The Moon Audio cables were all very well burned-in,with the Silver Dragon HD600 cable having well over 150 hours on it and the Blue Dragon having about 175 hours. The Balanced Silver Dragon cable(for the Blockhead) only had about 75 hours on it. The Interconnects were all burned in a cable cooker for 100 hours and should be OK as well.