[JCCI]

Hi everybody.
Most of the question you already figured out yourselves.
 
- First of all, we produce every model in-house! With another "hand" in-between we couldn't keep the PureDAC price.
 
- For a new PureDAC version, we can have an upgrade path. But again this depends on the structure of the individual country unless you are willing to ship your product to Germany for upgrade. Ayre's Charles is right, you don't get rich by upgrade programs! Don't know him personally (only the sales manager Brand - fine guy!) but I can see we agree several sensitive points already.
 
- UltraDAC cost EUR 1000 more (about USD 1350) and there is no reason why this should put the PureDAC price down. Beside that we don't deal that way! Is it really so hard accepting an upper grade model? Actually you guys delivered the idea of doing that!
 
- Somebody got the situation clearly here before: Upgrading a PureDAC to an UltraDAC would mean to remove everything from inside the box, plus the center window, and replace it. Now put the work time (a company has to pay for this!) for disassembling and re-assembling and you end up with no way to calculate such action.
 
That's not about B.M.C., this problems are generic.
Please don't compare with very high end products! When you paid USD 20k for a DAC and the upgrade for the latest USB interface cost USD 2000, available only at the manufacturer directly, everything is easy...

 

[qveda]

Carlos,
I congratulate you on participating in this forum, and taking ideas from it for your products. Your products are highly innovative and priced really well, IMO.  The styling is great and yet not so costly that the selling prices have to be much higher.  It seems like an excellent combination of quality appearance, build, technology and performance.   I've listened to the PureDAC and it would certainly meet my needs.  I'm also super excited about the UltraDAC and if I can save up enough I will strongly consider getting it.  But I would be very happy with either one.    I also hope to hear your amp and speakers one of these days.
 
thanks!
-Qua

 

[JCCI]

This comment really means a lot to me!
At the end, behind any brand there are just people, hopefully with a good mix of knowledge, passion and discipline. No3 is easy said...

 

[eugenius]

I personally don't see the value in the UltraDAC anyway. Better would be to quietly improve the PureDAC in it's weak points like the single ended headphone out and make refinements to it without increased cost or with a minimal cost increase.
 
There's a reason the PureDAC generated so much interest, it's price point makes it an unique product. At the UltraDAC price there are competing separates and most people including myself will go that route.

 

[a1uc]

Another thing that would nice is a replacement remote so the volume buttons match the DAC    I know this is minor but it really bugs me  

 

[qveda]

  I personally don't see the value in the UltraDAC anyway. Better would be to quietly improve the PureDAC in it's weak points like the single ended headphone out and make refinements to it without increased cost or with a minimal cost increase.
 
There's a reason the PureDAC generated so much interest, it's price point makes it an unique product. At the UltraDAC price there are competing separates and most people including myself will go that route.

 
I think we should allow for the possibility that the UltraDAC, like the PureDAC, will also be a unique product that generates very high interest in its price range.

 

[KmanChu]

The appeal of the PureDACs design will still be there in the higher priced UltraDAC. The prospect of a Power-DAC that directly drives the headphones is still a unique proposition with no signal attentuation anywhere in the analog domain. 
 
With the PureDAC I look at the headphone section as a bonus. It's fully worth its asking price in the $1800 range only as a dac. I expect the UltraDAC to be fully competitive in the $3300 range, which places it squarely in Auralic Vega and Ayre QB-9DSD range. If it completes with these fellows but has an even more kick ass headphone section then it's still a huge win.

 

[eugenius]

Ragnarok / Yggdrasil stack or UltraDAC. The two posters above, please choose.

 

[project86]

  Ragnarok / Yggdrasil stack or UltraDAC. The two posters above, please choose.

 
 
Without having heard any of them, or even feedback from others on any of them, it's kind of a tough choice at this stage. 
 
But conceptually it's similar to the choice of Gugnir/Mjolnir versus PureDAC. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. 

 

[eugenius]

So, choose. It won't cost you anything to say what your stroke is.

 

[KmanChu]

  Ragnarok / Yggdrasil stack or UltraDAC. The two posters above, please choose.

You're asking the wrong guy because I've just never been that impressed with any Schiit stack I have heard. I do think their amps are pretty decent, but the best thing I can say about their dacs is that they match their amps. I heard the M/G stack with Alpha Dogs and was thoroughly unimpressed. Listening with the same cans through the PureDAC was a superior experience. So, for the $1500 schiit M/G stack vs the $1800 PureDAC it was no contest to me. 
 
No one has heard either the UltraDAC or the new schiit stack, but based on my own past experience ... Then again, if I wanted 60 lbs of metal sitting on my desk and I needed to drive loudspeakers too but still not have a remote then maybe I would consider the Ragnoarok/Yggdrasil.
 
I should say that I have the utmost respect for the Schiit designers and their professional histories. I also like the way they do business. Maybe these new products are the ones that will knock me out. 
 
Edit: typo

 

[eugenius]

I know what I'm going to choose, and it's the Ragnarok / Yggdrasil stack, no question about it, even without a remote. For both theoretical reasons and value reasons. FYI my general Schiit opinion is about the same - from their current lineup just the Valhalla2 is attractive to me. 
 
But I'm moving away from headphone investments right now and just keeping my HD600. And my current Headroom system is almost a consequence of having the CEC HD53N and figuring out what I like.
 
Unless you had them both at home and listened to them alternatively for a couple of weeks your impression is invalid. Maybe you had gas when you listened to the Schiit stack.
 
And if you used different samples of the same headphone ... forget about it. Headphone sample variance is too high compared to amp differences. That's what I don't like head-fi, sometimes it's like a lemming convention. A guy says a thing because reasons then they all fall off the cliff after him. Case in point, the GS1000. Or worse, the Pioneer SE-A1000.
 
Getting back on topic of course having the same case for a better DAC is a detriment to the more expensive DAC. Most people buy looks and the argument that the more expensive one should look better is valid. Let's face it, most modern (never mind expensive) equipment is certainly good enough - if you only cared about the music you wouldn't be on the high-end forum, you would be on the music forum. The PureDAC has that going for it - it looks way more expensive than it is. I wonder if it's going to disappear after a while because of production costs.

 

[KmanChu]

  I know what I'm going to choose, and it's the Ragnarok / Yggdrasil stack. No question about it, even without a remote. If I was in the market for that. I'm moving away from headphone investments right now and just keeping my HD600.
 
Unless you had them both at home and listened to them alternatively for a couple of weeks your impression is invalid. Maybe you had gas when you listened to the Schiit stack.
 
And if you used different samples of the same headphone ... forget about it. Headphone sample variance is too high compared to amp differences. That's what I don't like head-fi, sometimes it's like a lemming convention. A guy says a thing because reasons then they all fall off the cliff after him. Case in point, the GS1000. Or worse, the Pioneer SE-A1000.

That particular comparison was with my own personal Alpha Dogs. I agree that a long live-with period is preferred, but I don't buy things that I have immediate negative reactions to. Anyway, you asked directly what I thought of the prospect of UltraDAC vs Yagg/Rag. Obviously no one has heard either of these yet so it's all just speculation. Furthermore it's not a comparison of equivalent products. Anyway, enough of this...

 

[project86]

I hate to speculate because honestly I haven't kept up on the new Schiit stuff, so I know very little about it. And I haven't heard all that much about the new BMC either. Based on my impressions of past gear, I'm more likely to choose the BMC, but you never know. 
 
Speculating can often be misleading. And marketing talk is strong even when results don't quite tell the same story. Example? Check out the measurements of the PS Audio DirectStream. Not terrible by any means, but compared to the Benchmark DAC 2, Auralic Vega, and MSB Analog (to pick a few recent examples), they have some issues. Issues that may correlate to the listening experience.
 
So I always like to wait until I have personal experience. Or at least wait for real impressions from a source I trust. 

 

[eugenius]

You just picked the three best measuring dac's to do a measurement comparison. I've seen measurements of the CEC and BMC equipment and they are not the best in the world like your examples but they are at least excellent. Over a certain threshold measurements have less importance than build quality, long term reliability (my CEC HD53N volume control was wonky and the warranty short), long term support, looks, perceived value and resale price.