[HardstyleLoco96]

Two days ago I recieved my Fiio BTR5, which also has ~2 Ohm output impedance on the balanced port, and I had no issues with noise or hiss. That's most likely because the noise floor is <2.2 uV. Can't guarantee for Fiio M11 though, as Fiio says that the noise floor for the balanced output is ＜7 uV. You should be fine with the standard 3.5 mm output though, as it has a lower noise floor (<5 uV), and the power should be sufficient (in my opinion, of course, your's may differ). The channel separation will be worse on 3.5 mm, as expected, but in both cases (balanced or unbalanced), the compromises wouldn't be of great impact over the whole listening experience. Again, this is my opinion, take it with a grain of salt . Regarding the sound aspect, you may be right about the harshness. On the low end side, I didn't find the bass muddy with 2 Ohm impedance. I'll try other DAC/Amps in the future, and I'll try to pay attention to the treble character with lower output impedances. Good point there. Have a nice one

Thanks for the quick reply

For T800 to perform its best (or should I say perform most accurately), you want an output impedance as close to zero as possible.

Well I am glad to say that I'm in the safe zone. The E1DA 9038s on specs says it has 0.5 Ohm output impedance but in actual testing it is 0.3 Ohm

 

[tudor.linca]

For T800 to perform its best (or should I say perform most accurately), you want an output impedance as close to zero as possible.

I totally understand that, but unfortunately, wireless DACs present on the market don't offer that, or at least not yet... My set-up is based around streaming services (Qobuz, Tidal), and relies on wireless DACs. I'm eagerly waiting for a newcomer on the market, Qudelix 5K. The device is build around a dual ESS ESS9218p set-up. The developers are going to use the chip's output directly linked to the audio jack, so I hope that the output impedance will be pretty low, as well as the noise floor. We'll see

 

[RikudouGoku]

Any news on the Hybrid?

 

[tudor.linca]

I think the issue with a 2 ohm output impedance is not necessarily noise, but that it can affect the sound level of different frequencies(like an equalizer) when the OI is more than the Earphone Impedance Divided by 8.
- So for the Audiosense T800's the Amp should be below 9 ohm Impedance / 8 or 1.125 Ohms. An OI of 1.0 Ohm or lower would be safe for most any iem. (There may be some earphones with even lower than 8 impedance out there.)

You're totally right. As a matter of fact, I measured my T800s. Using the standard cable, with a multi-meter I got 7.2 Ohm... Regarding the balanced connection, although my expertise on in depth electronics/audio aspects isn't by far as advanced as yours I think that here is where my problem lies.The individual IEMs measure at around 3.2 ohm, and when plugging the in balanced connection, the DACs actually see the 3.2 Ohm. Now here the impedance becomes a real problem, as it is much greater than the ~0.4 Ohm required.

 

[Slater]

I totally understand that, but unfortunately, wireless DACs present on the market don't offer that, or at least not yet...

Output impedance of ES100 is 0.5-1.0ohm.

I suspect that is one of the reasons that the T800 sounds so good when paired with the ES100.

 

[kukkurovaca]

I think the issue with a 2 ohm output impedance is not necessarily noise, but that it can affect the sound level of different frequencies(like an equalizer) when the OI is more than the Earphone Impedance Divided by 8.

FWIW, I think that 1/8 rule was originally intended to apply to dynamic drivers, as in traditional headphones or speakers. Too high an impedance with a dynamic driver mainly impacts the quality of the bass.

The impedance issue with multi-driver IEMs can kick at different impedance amounts for different IEMs depending on the design and crossover (if any), it isn't necessarily proportional to the rated impedance of the IEMs. And it will impact different parts of the frequency spectrum for different IEMs.

 

[CactusPete23]

FWIW, I think that 1/8 rule was originally intended to apply to dynamic drivers, as in traditional headphones or speakers. Too high an impedance with a dynamic driver mainly impacts the quality of the bass.

The impedance issue with multi-driver IEMs can kick at different impedance amounts for different IEMs depending on the design and crossover (if any), it isn't necessarily proportional to the rated impedance of the IEMs. And it will impact different parts of the frequency spectrum for different IEMs.

For sure. So far it works for me. But all "rules of thumb" like that 8:1 ratio are "meant to be broken".. And will not work for all IEMs.

I have also seen where some Campfire Andromeda owners think too low an OI is also not good for them... Like maybe they were tuned using a 1.5-2.0 Ohm OI Amp or something. (Not the correct number, just using as an example). And to get that "Goldilocks" sound that the OI has to be just right ! Not too high, not too low. Luckily have not heard anyone say the T800's are that OI sensitive.

 

[kukkurovaca]

For sure. So far it works for me. But all "rules of thumb" like that 8:1 ratio are "meant to be broken".. And will not work for all IEMs.

I have also seen where some Campfire Andromeda owners think too low an OI is also not good for them... Like maybe they were tuned using a 1.5-2.0 Ohm OI Amp or something. (Not the correct number, just using as an example). And to get that "Goldilocks" sound that the OI has to be just right ! Not too high, not too low. Luckily have not heard anyone say the T800's are that OI sensitive.

Heh. I generally avoid low-impedance multi-driver setups, but I still got bit on the Spring 1, which has a rated impedance of 43 ohms, but is still sensitive to source impedance in the midrange.

 

[Slater]

As the song goes, "these are a few of my favorite things"

 

[tudor.linca]

Output impedance of ES100 is 0.5-1.0ohm.

I suspect that is one of the reasons that the T800 sounds so good when paired with the ES100.

You're right, this is an example of a DAC compatible with the T800s, but as I am still fairly new to the audio scene, I'm still experiencing different types of headphones. I also use my open-backs quite a lot, and I'm thinking in the future to go the planar route, so I wanted to make sure that the DAC I'm buying has plenty of power in those kind of situations. This is one of the main reasons I went with the BTR5 instead of others. Moreover, from time to time, I like to kick it up a notch in the low end, especially with the open-backs, and I need the headroom . For now I'll wait for Qudelix 5k, and if that doesn't rise to the expectations, I'll surely give the Earstudio a try. Thanks for the suggestion!

For my particular case, I'm also thinking about trying the Knowles Damping filter mod, as my only problem right now is with the treble harshness.

 

[kukkurovaca]

You're right, this is an example of a DAC compatible with the T800s, but as I am still fairly new to the audio scene, I'm still experiencing different types of headphones. I also use my open-backs quite a lot, and I'm thinking in the future to go the planar route, so I wanted to make sure that the DAC I'm buying has plenty of power in those kind of situations. This is one of the main reasons I went with the BTR5 instead of others. Moreover, from time to time, I like to kick it up a notch in the low end, especially with the open-backs, and I need the headroom . For now I'll wait for Qudelix 5k, and if that doesn't rise to the expectations, I'll surely give the Earstudio a try. Thanks for the suggestion!

For my particular case, I'm also thinking about trying the Knowles Damping filter mod, as my only problem right now is with the treble harshness.

My solution for this is just strapping the ES100 to an amp. Bonus benefit: volume knob!

 

[applecom1de]

Dear community,

So I jumped on the T800-train two days ago, confident that it would pair at least decently with my LG V40. However since these gems yesterday got sent on their way towards me and my beloved LG, I decided to delve a little more into pleasant anticipation and made my way through almost the whole thread - and had to learn that it takes quite a weird bunch of tricks to reach a satisfying output with the pairing.. Here's my story:

While originally I thought I just quickly buy the heaven-sent T800s quasi-endgamers and finally find peace, I meanwhile have ordered additionally, JUST SO I CAN USE THEM TO AT LEAST HALF THEIR POTENTIAL:
- Several Knowles dampers here in Germany
- Since not available here, Knowles damper installation tool from China
- 3,7 mm mesh
- Replacement cable from Xiaofan

Ok, now good to go, I thought, now I can just relax, I thought, and wait a few weeks for all the stuff to arrive, and then to finally just put it together and then to relax and just enjoy the sound, I thought. Then I read about the compatability issues with the LG V-series.
Ok, I thought, not a problem, keep your cool, just a few more happy little accidents - chill out and follow the requirements:
- Breathe
- Ignore the KZ-starline-tip-finetuning-modification-suggestions, as well as the ones advising to drill holes into the shell or cut into rubber tips - focus on the majorly required modifications in order to enjoy the T800s with your super-simple-easy-to-go-final-solution-audiophile-phone:
- Buy Y-splitter
- Buy a separate set of earphones just to trick the LG to go into impedance mode (VE Monks)
- Buy an app in order so you can check if LG got into high-impedance-mode
- Breathe again, clean up the mess, joyfully look forward to the T800 arriving!

Ok, I thought, it's not that long-winded and cumbersome actually, see, you're gonna have a blast with these.... THINGS! Even if the impedance-trickery won't work with the splitter and the other earphones, you can, as suggested by several others, just buy an impedance adapter, quickly sent from China, you wouldn't even have needed other headphones, stupid! Just follow this simple setup described on Amazon:
"Step 1. Don't plug anything into the phone. Connect your headphones to either Faael adapter then connect your 3.5mm aux cable/adapter (a decent one that doesn't degrade your audio quality). Connect everything first! The order of how you connect them doesn't matter at this point!

Step 2. Plug the aux cable chain into the LG phone. Wait five to ten seconds. Or better yet pay a dollar for the LG Hi-Fi status app in the Google Play store to see the status of the phone. 50ohm will pop up in notifications with the app.

Step 3. While keeping the aux adapter/cable plugged into the phone, unplug the Faael adapter that's connected to your headphones first. Remove the faael adapter completely from the chain. It will degrade your audio. Then plug in your headphones into the aux adapter/cable and enjoy more power!"

So again, just breathe, ignore the following consumer feedback according to which it did NOT work,

and finally just happily (!) look forward to the neat and handy setup you soon will (in each occasion after the 3-step-program and in case that it actually works) enjoy as your on-the-go audiophile endgame:

(special thanks to "papa253")

Ok, it's all good, I thought, just chill now, all will be just F-I-N-E, why not just see it on a positive note - pick something! Go with Joseph! Why not Jesus! See the positive! Look what God wanted you to see: The whole force-into-high-impedance-mode-setup is so intolerably and grotesquely quirky and labourious, and people then anyway lament the quality in comparison with real DAPs, so why not use this mess to FULL-SYNCRO-POWER and SIMPLY add an amp to the m'fing phone? Hmm, stupid? Just glue it on the back or something, dude, one cable in, one out - as SIMPLE and handy as a Nokia 3210 dude! Just for instance, as a companion in misfortune, assigned and proud V40-and-T800-owner as well, happily suggested not too long ago in this little thread, why not just buy the "E1DA 9038S Gen 2 USB DAC Headphone Amp and Cables", from Aliexpress, it reportedly sounded phenomenal! Hmm, PERSPICIOUS SOLUTION, and only an additional 80 bucks, after all the stress, not willing to fight over that now, let's just buy this shiznit and then FINALLY not only having these PUNCHING-WAAAAY-OVER-THEIR-PRICE-ENDGAME-GEMS, but hey, a really solid amp as well, further contributing to all the love-making the T800s will devotedly spoil my ears and synapses with. Just a handy solution, see, now just breathe DEEPLY, get your act together and just m'fing BUY these and it's OVER!

Okeydokey, quick, let's smoothly surf to Aliexpress and finalize this excursion, by the powers of "E1DA 9038S Gen 2 USB DAC Headphone Amp and Cables", bring it to the glorious ending it deserves! Oh look, the reviews are not only promising, these are AMAZING! There is only a minor issue here, the amp feeds on the battery like the headphone industry on the hopeless asymptotic perfectionism, inner restlessness, let's just say - spiritual emptiness of the so called audiophile community - so that one needs a separate powerbank to feed the MONSTER! The genius-level on-the-go setup then looks as follows:

Beautiful isn't it. Love this hobby - cheers !

 

[CoFire]

Dear community,

So I jumped on the T800-train two days ago, confident that it would pair at least decently with my LG V40. However since these gems yesterday got sent on their way towards me and my beloved LG, I decided to delve a little more into pleasant anticipation and made my way through almost the whole thread - and had to learn that it takes quite a weird bunch of tricks to reach a satisfying output with the pairing.. Here's my story:

While originally I thought I just quickly buy the heaven-sent T800s quasi-endgamers and finally find peace, I meanwhile have ordered additionally, JUST SO I CAN USE THEM TO AT LEAST HALF THEIR POTENTIAL:
- Several Knowles dampers here in Germany
- Since not available here, Knowles damper installation tool from China
- 3,7 mm mesh
- Replacement cable from Xiaofan

Ok, now good to go, I thought, now I can just relax, I thought, and wait a few weeks for all the stuff to arrive, and then to finally just put it together and then to relax and just enjoy the sound, I thought. Then I read about the compatability issues with the LG V-series.
Ok, I thought, not a problem, keep your cool, just a few more happy little accidents - chill out and follow the requirements:
- Breathe
- Ignore the KZ-starline-tip-finetuning-modification-suggestions, as well as the ones advising to drill holes into the shell or cut into rubber tips - focus on the majorly required modifications in order to enjoy the T800s with your super-simple-easy-to-go-final-solution-audiophile-phone:
- Buy Y-splitter
- Buy a separate set of earphones just to trick the LG to go into impedance mode (VE Monks)
- Buy an app in order so you can check if LG got into high-impedance-mode
- Breathe again, clean up the mess, joyfully look forward to the T800 arriving!

Ok, I thought, it's not that long-winded and cumbersome actually, see, you're gonna have a blast with these.... THINGS! Even if the impedance-trickery won't work with the splitter and the other earphones, you can, as suggested by several others, just buy an impedance adapter, quickly sent from China, you wouldn't even have needed other headphones, stupid! Just follow this simple setup described on Amazon:
"Step 1. Don't plug anything into the phone. Connect your headphones to either Faael adapter then connect your 3.5mm aux cable/adapter (a decent one that doesn't degrade your audio quality). Connect everything first! The order of how you connect them doesn't matter at this point!

Step 2. Plug the aux cable chain into the LG phone. Wait five to ten seconds. Or better yet pay a dollar for the LG Hi-Fi status app in the Google Play store to see the status of the phone. 50ohm will pop up in notifications with the app.

Step 3. While keeping the aux adapter/cable plugged into the phone, unplug the Faael adapter that's connected to your headphones first. Remove the faael adapter completely from the chain. It will degrade your audio. Then plug in your headphones into the aux adapter/cable and enjoy more power!"

So again, just breathe, ignore the following consumer feedback according to which it did NOT work,



and finally just happily (!) look forward to the neat and handy setup you soon will (in each occasion after the 3-step-program and in case that it actually works) enjoy as your on-the-go audiophile endgame:


(special thanks to "papa253")

Ok, it's all good, I thought, just chill now, all will be just F-I-N-E, why not just see it on a positive note - pick something! Go with Joseph! Why not Jesus! See the positive! Look what God wanted you to see: The whole force-into-high-impedance-mode-setup is so intolerably and grotesquely quirky and labourious, and people then anyway lament the quality in comparison with real DAPs, so why not use this mess to FULL-SYNCRO-POWER and SIMPLY add an amp to the m'fing phone? Hmm, stupid? Just glue it on the back or something, dude, one cable in, one out - as SIMPLE and handy as a Nokia 3210 dude! Just for instance, as a companion in misfortune, assigned and proud V40-and-T800-owner as well, happily suggested not too long ago in this little thread, why not just buy the "E1DA 9038S Gen 2 USB DAC Headphone Amp and Cables", from Aliexpress, it reportedly sounded phenomenal! Hmm, PERSPICIOUS SOLUTION, and only an additional 80 bucks, after all the stress, not willing to fight over that now, let's just buy this shiznit and then FINALLY not only having these PUNCHING-WAAAAY-OVER-THEIR-PRICE-ENDGAME-GEMS, but hey, a really solid amp as well, further contributing to all the love-making the T800s will devotedly spoil my ears and synapses with. Just a handy solution, see, now just breathe DEEPLY, get your act together and just m'fing BUY these and it's OVER!

Okeydokey, quick, let's smoothly surf to Aliexpress and finalize this excursion, by the powers of "E1DA 9038S Gen 2 USB DAC Headphone Amp and Cables", bring it to the glorious ending it deserves! Oh look, the reviews are not only promising, these are AMAZING! There is only a minor issue here, the amp feeds on the battery like the headphone industry on the hopeless asymptotic perfectionism, inner restlessness, let's just say - spiritual emptiness of the so called audiophile community - so that one needs a separate powerbank to feed the MONSTER! The genius-level on-the-go setup then looks as follows:



Beautiful isn't it. Love this hobby - cheers !

AWESOME! I listen straight out of my V30+ in regular mode and I think it sounds great. I have an ES100 I need to try the T800 on, someday soon. I felt exactly as you do and I was able to get my V30+ in Auxiliary mode for several IEMs and the funny thing is, I preferred the sound in normal mode. I could not trick my phone into staying in 50-600 ohm high impedance mode. It would always fall back into Auxiliary mode which for you unfamiliar is essentially "medium" mode. Then reading on the V30 thread, a user recently tested the V30 in different modes and found much more distortion in HIM (high impedance mode). Quite honestly, the T800 are not that hard to get loud since they are all BAs, and I know extra power available can improve dynamics though these IEMs are so chiseled, I don't know how much percent (I know people hate estimating I percentages) you'll gain doing the LG dance or changing DAP (DAC/AMP). The bass sounds great and controlled for what I listen to. I know these comments are gonna get me kicked out of the T800 "cool" club but I'm still enjoying the crap out of these IEMs straight out of the V30+.

When I get time I'll compare against my Opus 1S (if this is considered a good DAP? I'll have to check output impedance as its been awhile since using it) to see if there's a real improvement. Well at least enough to motivate me to upgrade something. I can also check them out on the ES100 balanced since that device seems to have a collective approval.

LG was so close on this one and tried to make this phone too user friendly!

 

[applecom1de]

AWESOME! I listen straight out of my V30+ in regular mode and I think it sounds great. I have an ES100 I need to try the T800 on, someday soon. I felt exactly as you do and I was able to get my V30+ in Auxiliary mode for several IEMs and the funny thing is, I preferred the sound in normal mode. I could not trick my phone into staying in 50-600 ohm high impedance mode. It would always fall back into Auxiliary mode which for you unfamiliar is essentially "medium" mode. Then reading on the V30 thread, a user recently tested the V30 in different modes and found much more distortion in HIM (high impedance mode). Quite honestly, the T800 are not that hard to get loud since they are all BAs, and I know extra power available can improve dynamics though these IEMs are so chiseled, I don't know how much percent (I know people hate estimating I percentages) you'll gain doing the LG dance or changing DAP (DAC/AMP). The bass sounds great and controlled for what I listen to. I know these comments are gonna get me kicked out of the T800 "cool" club but I'm still enjoying the crap out of these IEMs straight out of the V30+.

When I get time I'll compare against my Opus 1S (if this is considered a good DAP? I'll have to check output impedance as its been awhile since using it) to see if there's a real improvement. Well at least enough to motivate me to upgrade something. I can also check them out on the ES100 balanced since that device seems to have a collective approval.

LG was so close on this one and tried to make this phone too user friendly!

Thanks for your words of encouragement man. And sorry for the sarcasm.. It was just that I bought the Rose Masyas Pro which arrived today and which sound really smooth, punchy and enjoyable, yet they are too big for my ear canals and hurt after a short while, which is a pity. Then the odyssey as described above when I just wanted to buy a solid IEM and listen casually.. I always choose the products I buy carefully (or so I think), then it's quite disappointing tbh when you put so much effort and research work in it and it doesn't result in a minimum of satisfaction. So, I guess I just let the pairing surprise me, maybe it's not that bad after all. Got all the stuff ordered anyway (not the amp though, lol). Cheers.

 

[HardstyleLoco96]

Dear community,

So I jumped on the T800-train two days ago, confident that it would pair at least decently with my LG V40. However since these gems yesterday got sent on their way towards me and my beloved LG, I decided to delve a little more into pleasant anticipation and made my way through almost the whole thread - and had to learn that it takes quite a weird bunch of tricks to reach a satisfying output with the pairing.. Here's my story:

While originally I thought I just quickly buy the heaven-sent T800s quasi-endgamers and finally find peace, I meanwhile have ordered additionally, JUST SO I CAN USE THEM TO AT LEAST HALF THEIR POTENTIAL:
- Several Knowles dampers here in Germany
- Since not available here, Knowles damper installation tool from China
- 3,7 mm mesh
- Replacement cable from Xiaofan

Ok, now good to go, I thought, now I can just relax, I thought, and wait a few weeks for all the stuff to arrive, and then to finally just put it together and then to relax and just enjoy the sound, I thought. Then I read about the compatability issues with the LG V-series.
Ok, I thought, not a problem, keep your cool, just a few more happy little accidents - chill out and follow the requirements:
- Breathe
- Ignore the KZ-starline-tip-finetuning-modification-suggestions, as well as the ones advising to drill holes into the shell or cut into rubber tips - focus on the majorly required modifications in order to enjoy the T800s with your super-simple-easy-to-go-final-solution-audiophile-phone:
- Buy Y-splitter
- Buy a separate set of earphones just to trick the LG to go into impedance mode (VE Monks)
- Buy an app in order so you can check if LG got into high-impedance-mode
- Breathe again, clean up the mess, joyfully look forward to the T800 arriving!

Ok, I thought, it's not that long-winded and cumbersome actually, see, you're gonna have a blast with these.... THINGS! Even if the impedance-trickery won't work with the splitter and the other earphones, you can, as suggested by several others, just buy an impedance adapter, quickly sent from China, you wouldn't even have needed other headphones, stupid! Just follow this simple setup described on Amazon:
"Step 1. Don't plug anything into the phone. Connect your headphones to either Faael adapter then connect your 3.5mm aux cable/adapter (a decent one that doesn't degrade your audio quality). Connect everything first! The order of how you connect them doesn't matter at this point!

Step 2. Plug the aux cable chain into the LG phone. Wait five to ten seconds. Or better yet pay a dollar for the LG Hi-Fi status app in the Google Play store to see the status of the phone. 50ohm will pop up in notifications with the app.

Step 3. While keeping the aux adapter/cable plugged into the phone, unplug the Faael adapter that's connected to your headphones first. Remove the faael adapter completely from the chain. It will degrade your audio. Then plug in your headphones into the aux adapter/cable and enjoy more power!"

So again, just breathe, ignore the following consumer feedback according to which it did NOT work,



and finally just happily (!) look forward to the neat and handy setup you soon will (in each occasion after the 3-step-program and in case that it actually works) enjoy as your on-the-go audiophile endgame:


(special thanks to "papa253")

Ok, it's all good, I thought, just chill now, all will be just F-I-N-E, why not just see it on a positive note - pick something! Go with Joseph! Why not Jesus! See the positive! Look what God wanted you to see: The whole force-into-high-impedance-mode-setup is so intolerably and grotesquely quirky and labourious, and people then anyway lament the quality in comparison with real DAPs, so why not use this mess to FULL-SYNCRO-POWER and SIMPLY add an amp to the m'fing phone? Hmm, stupid? Just glue it on the back or something, dude, one cable in, one out - as SIMPLE and handy as a Nokia 3210 dude! Just for instance, as a companion in misfortune, assigned and proud V40-and-T800-owner as well, happily suggested not too long ago in this little thread, why not just buy the "E1DA 9038S Gen 2 USB DAC Headphone Amp and Cables", from Aliexpress, it reportedly sounded phenomenal! Hmm, PERSPICIOUS SOLUTION, and only an additional 80 bucks, after all the stress, not willing to fight over that now, let's just buy this shiznit and then FINALLY not only having these PUNCHING-WAAAAY-OVER-THEIR-PRICE-ENDGAME-GEMS, but hey, a really solid amp as well, further contributing to all the love-making the T800s will devotedly spoil my ears and synapses with. Just a handy solution, see, now just breathe DEEPLY, get your act together and just m'fing BUY these and it's OVER!

Okeydokey, quick, let's smoothly surf to Aliexpress and finalize this excursion, by the powers of "E1DA 9038S Gen 2 USB DAC Headphone Amp and Cables", bring it to the glorious ending it deserves! Oh look, the reviews are not only promising, these are AMAZING! There is only a minor issue here, the amp feeds on the battery like the headphone industry on the hopeless asymptotic perfectionism, inner restlessness, let's just say - spiritual emptiness of the so called audiophile community - so that one needs a separate powerbank to feed the MONSTER! The genius-level on-the-go setup then looks as follows:



Beautiful isn't it. Love this hobby - cheers !

Honestly, the T800 just needs a very low output impedance and good power to drive them. Eartips is optional, many people use the stock eartips, I am using eartips that came for free with my Samsung S9. The cable is optional as well, I currently am using this Jcally 2.5 balanced cable that I asked for with the 9038s on aliexpres. I also use just a type C to type C cable for on the go. And battery drain actually isnt to bad. Yesterday I got about 7 hours listening and had around 30% left in my phone. The T800 is a tricky one though, but I will say, I am certain you'll enjoy the 9038s and T800 for sure The audio hobby is a hard hobby to get along with. But at the end of the day, for us music lovers. It's worth it