Feb 5, 2021 at 1:55 PM Post #9,766 of 10,236
I heard the T1.3 not that long ago I thought it was a bit of a downgrade compared to the original when it comes to resolving those small details but sounds nothing like other Beyers I've heard, admittedly not enough time to be 100% on my thoughts.. I never compared them but the Biocellulose drivers of the Nighthawk is really good at resolving Mynute information, prob better than most headphones but the issue is hearing passed the frequency response. Technical performance has never been an issue for this headphone, it's up there with other dynamics regardless of price but I do prefer Biocell timbre over beryllium or Mylar.

No matter how much Beyer try to make their headphones warmer and darker, there's always that rough characteristic to to them that never goes away for me.
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 2:00 PM Post #9,767 of 10,236
I heard the T1.3 not that long ago I thought it was a bit of a downgrade compared to the original when it comes to resolving those small details but sounds nothing like other Beyers I've heard, admittedly not enough time to be 100% on my thoughts.. I never compared them but the Biocellulose drivers of the Nighthawk is really good at resolving Mynute information, prob better than most headphones but the issue is hearing passed the frequency response. Technical performance has never been an issue for this headphone, it's up there with other dynamics regardless of price but I do prefer Biocell timbre over beryllium or Mylar.

No matter how much Beyer try to make their headphones warmer and darker, there's always that rough characteristic to to them that never goes away for me.

Yeah the Nighthawks Are unique in this regard. The bio cellulose driver is a gem...
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 2:09 PM Post #9,768 of 10,236
I heard the T1.3 not that long ago I thought it was a bit of a downgrade compared to the original when it comes to resolving those small details but sounds nothing like other Beyers I've heard, admittedly not enough time to be 100% on my thoughts.. I never compared them but the Biocellulose drivers of the Nighthawk is really good at resolving Mynute information, prob better than most headphones but the issue is hearing passed the frequency response. Technical performance has never been an issue for this headphone, it's up there with other dynamics regardless of price but I do prefer Biocell timbre over beryllium or Mylar.

No matter how much Beyer try to make their headphones warmer and darker, there's always that rough characteristic to to them that never goes away for me.

That's interesting as I found they resolved small details better than the original T1's and the gen 2's (found these seem to have some mild resonance issues), the old ones only seem to resolve more microdetail at first due to their much brighter sound in my experience. But I have owned the gen 3's and the gen 2's for a while so I have a good handle of their sound and have heard the gen 1 a couple times since owning the gen 3. Never had that issue with Beyers personally, just always found most had too much treble or an excess edge to the treble which I found can be addressed with EQ, modding, etc., for me that was my problem with Sennheiser, they that always had a subtle rough grating characteristic to their mids that I haven't been able to get rid of which bothered me with long term ownership. The HD 560 S is surprisingly the least bothersome Sennheiser I've owned. I think it just comes down to Beyers suiting my ears better than some. I noticed some drivers just suit others more and listening fatigue of headphones do vary some from person to person.

The Hawks never really had a grating sound stock, though I have noticed modding the Hawks to try and control the resonances can bring out some unpleasantness and roughness in the sound, tried numerous things and it always backfires, so maybe the resonances are there intentionally to help take an edge off the sound.
 
Last edited:
Feb 5, 2021 at 2:57 PM Post #9,769 of 10,236
I do wanna get some more time with them. The older ones did have a more bright, coarse sound to them. I never judge headphones by their forcing of a bright sound to make it sound like it's more detail than it is. I see detail as contrast ratio, good calibration rather than over sharpening of a screen. obviously different pieces of tech but the approach is similar.

Yeah the HD650 and HD600 have that forward upper mids and the drivers have a inherent grainy character, the grain is pretty inherent of Mylar type drivers, the LCD series, at least the 2, 2C and X have this as well to some degree. The HD560S is technically brighter but I agree with you it's smoother in terms of texture, it isn't as sand papery or grainy. The Nighthawk does have some odd peaks but the bass boost does mask this so smooths it over. Nighthawk is just a very busy sounding headphone inside the cups, subtle pitches in bass come out more than most headphones. Yeah I agree some people say Hifimans are bright but they hit my ears in a pleasant way where as something like a HD600 which I find rough and gritty bothers me despite having smaller peaks, Beyers I can never get on with despite me rating some of their headphones, they're not something I'd own long term.
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 3:38 PM Post #9,770 of 10,236
I do wanna get some more time with them. The older ones did have a more bright, coarse sound to them. I never judge headphones by their forcing of a bright sound to make it sound like it's more detail than it is. I see detail as contrast ratio, good calibration rather than over sharpening of a screen. obviously different pieces of tech but the approach is similar.

Yeah the HD650 and HD600 have that forward upper mids and the drivers have a inherent grainy character, the grain is pretty inherent of Mylar type drivers, the LCD series, at least the 2, 2C and X have this as well to some degree. The HD560S is technically brighter but I agree with you it's smoother in terms of texture, it isn't as sand papery or grainy. The Nighthawk does have some odd peaks but the bass boost does mask this so smooths it over. Nighthawk is just a very busy sounding headphone inside the cups, subtle pitches in bass come out more than most headphones. Yeah I agree some people say Hifimans are bright but they hit my ears in a pleasant way where as something like a HD600 which I find rough and gritty bothers me despite having smaller peaks, Beyers I can never get on with despite me rating some of their headphones, they're not something I'd own long term.

They’re definitely an interesting sounding headphone. Yeah a lot of headphones do boost upper mids and treble for more detail but once you spend enough time analyzing the drivers sound you start noticing the difference between actual detail and faux detail.

They do and I would say the HD 660 S does to a degree, but that headphone literally made me dizzy listening to it hasn’t happened on another headphone. Interestingly I actually rate the HD 560 S above the HD 6xx series as I find it has notably less grain to its sound and it scales about as nicely in my experience.

I do still keep the Nighthawk around but I learned not to modify or EQ them and to just leave it as is as I get the most enjoyment out of them that way. Yeah the peaks on the Nighthawk driver is what holds the driver back some, if Skylar had more chance maybe on a future headphone he would address some of the drivers issues such as a differently composed bio-cellulose driver, etc. It is sad these headphones don’t have any future versions coming out. Bio-cellulose especially Sony’s is one of my favorite driver materials I’ve heard. The pure aluminum reverse dome with the silk paper(?) surround driver of the DT 48/480 is probably my favorite driver which doesn’t have the issues many other metal drivers often have in terms of timbre and treble, in fact they are one of the tonally best drivers I’ve heard. I haven’t heard the Utopia’s beryllium long enough to make any decisions on those drivers, don’t recall any fatigue or issues though. I wasn’t a big fan of the Elear’s driver didn’t handle treble right at all and felt like I had an odd pressure on my ears. Haven’t heard the Clear’s with the copper voice coil so no idea on them. The Z1R’s driver was really nice and didn’t have any issues with it.

I sadly haven’t heard a planar I’ve liked with extended listening and Hifimans tend to sound prickley and bright to me but don’t recall them sounding gritty like Audeze’s and I also haven’t heard most newer planars. The audeze’s I’ve heard sounded rough and gritty reminding me of the HD 6 series grit but worse. Beyers and older AKG’s just sit right with me, it’s hard to explain exactly why honestly as it’s something subtle. New AKG’s aren’t AKG’s in my book and lost what they had.
 
Last edited:
Feb 5, 2021 at 6:31 PM Post #9,771 of 10,236
They’re definitely an interesting sounding headphone. Yeah a lot of headphones do boost upper mids and treble for more detail but once you spend enough time analyzing the drivers sound you start noticing the difference between actual detail and faux detail.

They do and I would say the HD 660 S does to a degree, but that headphone literally made me dizzy listening to it hasn’t happened on another headphone. Interestingly I actually rate the HD 560 S above the HD 6xx series as I find it has notably less grain to its sound and it scales about as nicely in my experience.

I do still keep the Nighthawk around but I learned not to modify or EQ them and to just leave it as is as I get the most enjoyment out of them that way. Yeah the peaks on the Nighthawk driver is what holds the driver back some, if Skylar had more chance maybe on a future headphone he would address some of the drivers issues such as a differently composed bio-cellulose driver, etc. It is sad these headphones don’t have any future versions coming out. Bio-cellulose especially Sony’s is one of my favorite driver materials I’ve heard. The pure aluminum reverse dome with the silk paper(?) surround driver of the DT 48/480 is probably my favorite driver which doesn’t have the issues many other metal drivers often have in terms of timbre and treble, in fact they are one of the tonally best drivers I’ve heard. I haven’t heard the Utopia’s beryllium long enough to make any decisions on those drivers, don’t recall any fatigue or issues though. I wasn’t a big fan of the Elear’s driver didn’t handle treble right at all and felt like I had an odd pressure on my ears. Haven’t heard the Clear’s with the copper voice coil so no idea on them. The Z1R’s driver was really nice and didn’t have any issues with it.

I sadly haven’t heard a planar I’ve liked with extended listening and Hifimans tend to sound prickley and bright to me but don’t recall them sounding gritty like Audeze’s and I also haven’t heard most newer planars. The audeze’s I’ve heard sounded rough and gritty reminding me of the HD 6 series grit but worse. Beyers and older AKG’s just sit right with me, it’s hard to explain exactly why honestly as it’s something subtle. New AKG’s aren’t AKG’s in my book and lost what they had.
There's def a sense of an inherent, smoothness to the timbre of the HD560S compared to the HD600 series and the 800 series, it isn't the smoothest I've heard but then again this is a fairly cheap headphone and the examples I have cost multiple hundreds, thousand more so can kinder forgive it, overall is say it's a fairly smooth sounding headphone with a touch of upper mid forwardness. I am one that doesn't believe price = performance I just believe in good headphones. I'm with you on the Elear, metallic mess with no mids

The way you listen to headphones reminds me of myself, sensitive to dramatic shifts in frequency response and odd timbre jumps out at you, I get that a lot with about 95% of headphones. I think most headphones are just plain awful. The bryll drivers in the Utopia are interesting but I can't get over the odd sound those types of drivers produce, like it's lacking in organic smoothness, there's a rough texture, it doesn't flow but it's very resolving and revealing of small details but then that's not really something I always look for in a headphone. An example is something like the HD650, HE-500 is resolving enough, I want timbre and bass pitch gradients, mid level, vocal detail, a connection to the music that grabs me to me the most important factor then worry about driver plankton extraction which a good tuning will do anyway.

I tend to hear Hifimans are plasticky, they're very open, quick to decay. The Nighthawk for example with their massive hump you can a lingering decay that adds to the stuffiness but you do get natural decay found in the recording; on something like the Arya, the decay disappears almost instantly, it's more unnatural in a sense but planars tend to be known for that with their linear sub bas and instant stop aspect to the driver. I'm a fan of old AKG's, used to own the K400, K500,K501, 601 before all the crazy 701 variants and whatever tosh they make now. Their Galaxy Buds + sound good though for wireless buds.

To my knowledge and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but the Nighthawk uses the same driver found in the D2000, EMU-TEAK, X00 but with a split gap, tesla and modified driver housing for ventilation to prevent driver noise. It's very intelligently designed in that aspect, prob the most attention to detail I've ever seen.
 
Feb 6, 2021 at 11:30 AM Post #9,772 of 10,236
Funny, for the time I have owned the NightHawks I have always perceived them as completely fatigue-free. Mainly because of their lack of grain and laid-back treble response.
My previous favorite: the Sony MDR-Z7 was more grainy and fatiguing in comparison, their lack of dampening material in the cups occasionally resulted in cup resonance. The 1K region could get shouty.
Now it is the exact opposite, the NightHawks appear to be more fatiguing than the Sony's and even my Fidelio X3s.
Are my ears aging? Or do ears develop some kind of preference and taste of their own? I am baffled. :)
 
Feb 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Post #9,773 of 10,236
That's because the Nighthawk has a large mid bass hump, this smoothers over the treble but if you drop the bass down using EQ they can sound quite gritty. You need to listen more into the headphone to hear it, like notes in whiskies, some don't taste past the high alcohol volume but when you do there's many aspects that make up a whisky, some notes whether positive or negative can be harder to find underneath a dominate aspect, Nighthawk or any bassy headphone is no different here.

I found the Z7 quite rough sounding in general, many would say it was smooth but that wasn't my experience at all with them. You may have just became more sensitive to the Nighthawk high frequency peaks over time. I would say you have just learnt to hear past dominant aspects and hearing more into the headphone which is a good thing.
 
Feb 6, 2021 at 12:00 PM Post #9,774 of 10,236
I’m thinking about ordering a lightning to 3.5mm cable for when these arrive. Originally I was thinking about getting an ES100 or BTR5 but reading around, it sounds like the Nighthawk’s run pretty well off an iPhone already.

So £10 for a lightning to 3.5mm adapter, or £100 for a BTR5 but improved sound quality and being able to use a balanced cable? Hmm.
 
Feb 6, 2021 at 2:26 PM Post #9,775 of 10,236
You may have just became more sensitive to the Nighthawk high frequency peaks over time. I would say you have just learnt to hear past dominant aspects and hearing more into the headphone which is a good thing.
It could be. Still pretty weird, if this would be the case I wouldn't find the Z7s to be less fatiguing, but rather more so.
But I am glad I still kept all of my headphones, instead of selling them off when a new 'favorite' arrived. Maybe after some time I find the Sony's to be more fatiguing again.
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 6:12 PM Post #9,776 of 10,236
I think a very important factor to determine whether a headphone is grainy or refined, is the placement on your ears.

The HD650 (mine is from 2012) can be quite grainy with a certain fit, and smoother than my DT150 (and smoother than any other headphone and IEM I’ve tried out) with the most correct fit.
 
Feb 8, 2021 at 12:08 PM Post #9,777 of 10,236
....
But I am glad I still kept all of my headphones, instead of selling them off when a new 'favorite' arrived.
...

Seems true..3 times I sold my Nighthawks, every time I missed them.
As I look back the row of phones been on my head I had some stunning affairs with lots of emotion but there was nothing so special like the hawks over the years now.
 
Last edited:
Feb 9, 2021 at 4:24 AM Post #9,778 of 10,236
40971992-48D8-4008-AE6F-670EF003C254.jpeg


Looking forward to trying these out! Won’t be able to give them a proper try until this evening or tomorrow but I’ll try a little when I can during the day 😁
 
Feb 10, 2021 at 3:45 AM Post #9,779 of 10,236
Put about an hour or so onto these now, previous buyer advised he’s put around 100 hours in. And ... I’m underwhelmed?

I’m far, far, far from an audiophile, I’ll say that straight away. I know people say these are really relaxing but I’m not sure if relaxing means they lack much energy at all?

Everything just sounds a bit flat, a bit veiled. I’m running it off my iPad Pro 10.5 and I’ve got a BTR5 hopefully arriving today so I’ll test that. But I expect the iPad should be able to drive it to a good level given Skylar Grey was saying he was using his iPhone.

Also using Tidal at hifi and master quality so the streaming source is good enough there.

Maybe it does take a while to break my ears in, but coming from the Meze 99 Classics, these definitely don’t feel like what were £700 headphones and I’m not sure if I prefer the 99’s at this point.

Early days I guess, we’ll see.
 
Feb 10, 2021 at 4:21 AM Post #9,780 of 10,236
Not unlike reactions people had when listening to the Hawks for the first time. I didn't hate them but I was underwhelmed as well, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and started to love them. Others make up their mind pretty quickly and get of rid of them.
Both ways are valid. 1st impressions are usually right, but not always :)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top