[inthere]

I would concur, 100%.

I'm curious, do you still prefer the Utopia to the Nighthawk? I have to ask, obviously because I still haven't gotten my replacement pair.

 

[x RELIC x]

I'm curious, do you still prefer the Utopia to the Nighthawk? I have to ask, obviously because I still haven't gotten my replacement pair.

It's a very good question and I'll try to answer in the clearest way possible so that my reply, or my enjoyment of either the Nighthawk or the Utopia, is not misunderstood in any way. Far too many times on Head Fi I read that one piece of gear is 'better' with absolutely no qualification of what that means to the individual, so my reply may be a little long winded. My listening sources have been mostly whittled down to the Mojo, DAVE, and Cavalli Liquid Gold (which I don't use much - don't need the power) after trying other gear and settling on these three main sources.

I'm an individual who prefers clean detail with as little distortion as possible over most everything else when I listen to music. I absolutely dislike listening to gear, headphones or source gear, that has an unnatural treble response or wacky balance with the rest of the frequency range, as I perceive it at least, and without a bass and mid range foundation. 'Fake detail' from a tipped up treble response is not my bag. I'd like to say that my reference is real life but I find that when my listening time is so occupied with headphones that my real world perception is skewed quite a bit and I recognize that. With that said I like both equally.... let me explain.

With the Utopia I hear incredible dynamic punch. I've never heard anything like it in a headphone before and it really hits home a sense of being in the middle of the performance for me. The impact from a drum hit or an acoustic guitar strum or even a triangle or cymbal can be very exciting with the Utopia. It absolutely demands my attention and presents music with an immersive sense of excitement. I find the Utopia's frequency balance to be spot on. The space between the instruments is well defined and the treble creeps right to the edge of what I would consider too bright. The Utopia is much less bright than the HD800 to me and nails it in this regard. The bass is not overwhelming and I never really find it lacking at all. The mids on the Utopia are great and I feel they are a large contributor to the punch from these headphones. One word to describe the Utopia is dynamic. Volume must be set appropriately with them or they will beat you up. The Utopia is one of the cleanest headphones I've heard in regard to distortion. Simply incredible detail and speed from the drivers can be heard with them throughout the frequency range. The Utopia will show every single flaw in your upstream gear and this could be a positive or a negative depending on the owner.

With the Nighthawk I am completely smitten with its' ability to [almost] present the same detail as the Utopia, and yet not punch me in the head if I get too zealous with the volume knob. I'm talking more about the mid range than the treble here and I do find the Nighthawk upper mid range (3kHz?) to be slightly recessed, slightly. But that mid range recess along with the elevated bass response, compared to the Utopia, makes for a very natural and comfortable sound. Like a warm blanket that's always there for comfort. The Nighthawk has incredible technical capability with very low distortion as well. This is very easy for me to pick up and it's one of my favourite things about the Nighthawk. I don't know if it's because that distortion is so linear but I find it very revealing throughout the frequency range in spite of the Nighthawk's warmer tonal colouration. Compared to the Utopia I'd say the Nighthawk is slightly less revealing, but only slightly. The depth on the Nighthawk, to me, is better than the Utopia. It's easier for me to tell the depth layering in recordings with the Nighthawk, especially with classical recordings. I was listening to the Decca Sound box set (50 CD set) the other day and I could easily tell if the mic(s) was at the conductors podium, further back from the stage, or at each instrument. Easily. Of course, if the recording is flat then the Nighthawk will sound flat. I love this about the Nighthawk. However, ironically, the separation of individual instruments and the space they live in is smaller on the Nighthawk than with the Utopia. Actually, you may say the Nighthawk is more like real life [or speakers] in this regard as you can enjoy the music as a whole rather than seperated pieces from the perspective of an audience member in a concert.

Going back to the Utopia after listening to the Nighthawk makes the Utopia sound 'honky'. Going back to the Nighthawk after listening to the Utopia makes the Nighthawk sound 'thick'. At least this is how I hear it. The great thing for me is that it doesn't take long to adjust to either signature and enjoy each headphone for the strengths they have. Again, I think this is because they both have very good low distortion and both present a very clean, grain free sound. It was Rob Watts' love for the Nighthawk that raised my eyebrow as I think very highly of his hearing ability. I am really glad I picked them up, and even more grateful for the sale price I was able to pay. If it wasn't for the sale I probably would have passed on the Nighthawk, but now, after hearing them for a while, I feel they are worth much more than I paid based on what I'm hearing. I don't feel like I'm missing anything overall with the Nighthawk. I do feel the cable is cheap and want to replace it, although it seems to perform well. My 1/8" to 1/4" adaptor was DOA so that's another bias I have against the cable.

TL;DR

The Utopia and Nighthawk have some of the cleanest natural low distortion music reproduction I've heard (I certainly haven't heard every headphone) which compliment each other very well with their presentations. In this regard I find them equally enjoyable. The Nighthawk is more forgiving of upstream gear, but just as capable of benefitting from a quality source.

 

[x RELIC x]

inthere, I'm curious what you think of the LCD-4 compared to the Nighthawk?

 

[inthere]

@inthere, I'm curious what you think of the LCD-4 compared to the Nighthawk?

LCD-4 has a very similar "euphoric" feel to the Nighthawk but in a "thinner" overall tuning. Bigger soundstage and sensational resolution while at the same time not overly bright. When i say "thinner" I'm not talking thin like some high end headphones, I'm talking very similar to the Utopia.
 
I think it has a more "open" feel than the Utopia and the Nighthawk.
 
However, it hasn't gotten much listening time since I got the Utopia because the weight is such a distraction, and I've never been bothered by headphone weight before. Even in it's present "defective" state I feel my Utopia hits enough marks to replace the LCD-4. 
 
Personal preference I'll have to say I like the Nighthawk better than both $4k headphones all things considered; the sig is just so smooth you can listen for hours, the weight, the comfort, hell, I'm even into the eco-friendly design......everything is done so well-except for the cable.

 

[bavinck]

I was just thinking today that layering on the Nighthawk is excellent. Nice to see you guys agree. I have heard many headphones that cost much more with only average layering. I think this may be a major reason why these headphones sound so natural to be. I suppose that is a function of the low distortion.

 

[mysticstryk]

Got a really great deal on a Nighthawk so I'm finally able to try these out.
 
I completely understand why some find this a divisive headphone.  The first time I put them on I was wondering where my mids and treble went.  Due to the low distortion and clear sound of the drivers, all the detail is still there just rather subdued.
 
However, these are DARK headphones.  Can really only use them for a small portion of my music, in which the Nighthawk takes it to a level I haven't heard in any other headphone.  Most of my metal, orchestra and soundtracks don't sound too good.  Some brighter recordings of older metal albums sound good, but most of my stuff just sounds better on my other setups.  I listen to a lot of retro wave/synth pop and ambient electronic stuff which is absolutely brilliant on these.  The biocellulose drivers really showing off that clean bass response.  
 
I'm looking forward to trying the new ear pads.  These are SO CLOSE to being even greater, if only the mids can be brought up a bit and get a bit more lower treble energy.  Looks like the new ear pads try and tackle that.
 
I have a feeling amp pairings can be very important as well.  Something as close to 0 ohms output as possible with a forward presentation.  The Nighthawk probably sounds great with the new Jot.

 

[x RELIC x]

LCD-4 has a very similar "euphoric" feel to the Nighthawk but in a "thinner" overall tuning. Bigger soundstage and sensational resolution while at the same time not overly bright. When i say "thinner" I'm not talking thin like some high end headphones, I'm talking very similar to the Utopia.

I think it has a more "open" feel than the Utopia and the Nighthawk.

However, it hasn't gotten much listening time since I got the Utopia because the weight is such a distraction, and I've never been bothered by headphone weight before. Even in it's present "defective" state I feel my Utopia hits enough marks to replace the LCD-4. 

Personal preference I'll have to say I like the Nighthawk better than both $4k headphones all things considered; the sig is just so smooth you can listen for hours, the weight, the comfort, hell, I'm even into the eco-friendly design......everything is done so well-except for the cable.

I'm listening with the Nighthawk more than the Utopia lately....... That's not really a con for the Utopia, but more of a plus for the Nighthawk. They are opening up over time so that's the third pair of headphones that I've actually heard burn-in with. The ETHER C and ETHER Flow being the others. I also find that when I wear them slightly forward on my ears they are a bit brighter, at least with my head/ear shape.

I actually find the Utopia more comfortable than the Nighthawk, like it was made for my head. Still, the Nighthawk is pretty comfortable.

 

[x RELIC x]

Got a really great deal on a Nighthawk so I'm finally able to try these out.

I completely understand why some find this a divisive headphone.  The first time I put them on I was wondering where my mids and treble went.  Due to the low distortion and clear sound of the drivers, all the detail is still there just rather subdued.

However, these are DARK headphones.  Can really only use them for a small portion of my music, in which the Nighthawk takes it to a level I haven't heard in any other headphone.  Most of my metal, orchestra and soundtracks don't sound too good.  Some brighter recordings of older metal albums sound good, but most of my stuff just sounds better on my other setups.  I listen to a lot of retro wave/synth pop and ambient electronic stuff which is absolutely brilliant on these.  The biocellulose drivers really showing off that clean bass response.  

I'm looking forward to trying the new ear pads.  These are SO CLOSE to being even greater, if only the mids can be brought up a bit and get a bit more lower treble energy.  Looks like the new ear pads try and tackle that.

I have a feeling amp pairings can be very important as well.  Something as close to 0 ohms output as possible with a forward presentation.  The Nighthawk probably sounds great with the new Jot.

I felt the same way initially and they do seem more 'right' over time. No mistake that they are a darker headphone though. I haven't heard the Schiit Jot, but from what I've read it's an 'energetic' amp. Not really for me though.

 

[betula]

Reading about the Nighthawk being compared to $4k headphones and not falling too short makes me feel even better about the bargain price I paid for them.
I do not buy £1000+ headphones, and in my opinion NH basically beats everything under £1000.
It very much looks like, better times are ahead of my wallet.

 

[MattTCG]

Great info here guys. Thanks especially to x relic x for that epic post and wonderful comparison. Yes, the Jot amp is my favorite with the NH. The synergy is certainly there and takes away that slight dark tonal quality that I find with the NH. 
 
Here's a tip on comfort/fit that works well for me. When you put the NH on and slide the cups up and down a bit until you find the sweet spot, then you'll want to push the headband toward the front of your head just about 1/2-1" so that it sits more in the middle. Of course everyone's head is shaped different so this my not work for you. But for me this slight tweak took them from a 9 to a 10 on comfort. 
 
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones with the cable. I've had zero issues and have two stock desktop cables, one single ended and one balanced. I do prefer the sound of the NH through the balanced output on the Jot. Most amps have considerably more power over the balanced output and would possibly overpower the NH, but the Jot is about perfect, giving me a reasonable amount of play on the knob still. 

 

[mysticstryk]

Are we still waiting for an official ETA on the new pads?

 

[betula]

Are we still waiting for an official ETA on the new pads?

At the beginning of this month we were told "later this month".

 

[MattTCG]

Are we still waiting for an official ETA on the new pads?

 
The word was November. I thought that meant early November. It seems I was wrong. 

 

[YtseJamer]

  I'm looking forward to trying the new ear pads.  These are SO CLOSE to being even greater, if only the mids can be brought up a bit and get a bit more lower treble energy.  Looks like the new ear pads try and tackle that.

 
I think that you will be happy with the new 'velour' pads.

 

[bavinck]

  Got a really great deal on a Nighthawk so I'm finally able to try these out.
 
I completely understand why some find this a divisive headphone.  The first time I put them on I was wondering where my mids and treble went.  Due to the low distortion and clear sound of the drivers, all the detail is still there just rather subdued.
 
However, these are DARK headphones.  Can really only use them for a small portion of my music, in which the Nighthawk takes it to a level I haven't heard in any other headphone.  Most of my metal, orchestra and soundtracks don't sound too good.  Some brighter recordings of older metal albums sound good, but most of my stuff just sounds better on my other setups.  I listen to a lot of retro wave/synth pop and ambient electronic stuff which is absolutely brilliant on these.  The biocellulose drivers really showing off that clean bass response.  
 
I'm looking forward to trying the new ear pads.  These are SO CLOSE to being even greater, if only the mids can be brought up a bit and get a bit more lower treble energy.  Looks like the new ear pads try and tackle that.
 
I have a feeling amp pairings can be very important as well.  Something as close to 0 ohms output as possible with a forward presentation.  The Nighthawk probably sounds great with the new Jot.

Give them time to burn in and you brain to adjust. You are probably used to an artificially bright signature. Once you and the Nighthawks settle I bet you find them sublime with metal.