[ohotonge]

here are the measurements for Nighthawk(and I'll be ducking for a while for my own safety);

 
a relatively smooth fr response from mid to high, but obviously too bass heavy for some people, if it is the closed headphones, it would be a masterful balance, but...it is not... 
 

and for comparison here are the measurements for the Oppo pm-3 from the same source(alpha audio);

 

[Luckbad]

here are the measurements for Nighthawk(and I'll be ducking for a while for my own safety);



a relatively smooth fr response from mid to high, but obviously too bass heavy for some people, if it is the closed headphones, it would be a masterful balance, but...it is not... 



and for comparison here are the measurements for the Oppo pm-3 from the same source(alpha audio);

Thanks! How do you measure full size headphones? I can do IEMs fine but need to get an ear or something for full.

Is this before or after burn in?

 

[Hachiko270296]

Hmmm possibly. I want to see some more graphs. Does anyone know if Tyll has a review dropping soon?

 

[leomitch]

Quote:

Burn in doesn't even matter.

The Nighthawk is dark, not very linear. Bass extension looks poor.t ​

Have you actually heard them mate? Are those figures of a production set or preproduction headphones?
There are reviews of these headphones elsewhere, including mine, based on actual listening for over 300 hours that say the Nighthawks are not very dark, are quite linear with an excellent bass extension. Smooth, detailed and musical. Even some naysayers have relented after listening to a production model released lately. Do you really mean to say that 'burn in' doesn't matter? IMHO it does....but the debate goes on and on.
Do a bit of researching and you will find from many, the very opposite of what you suggest.
 
Leo  

 

[Mark Up]

Oppo graphs being so different from reliable Inner Fidelity graphs for it tell me those are not accurate. Especially in the low end.

 

[Luckbad]

Yep, looking at the InnerFidelity Oppo PM-3 measurements, those posted here aren't even close to the same. I'd take the Nighthawk measurements from the same source with some degree of skepticism.

 

[ohotonge]

  Oppo graphs being so different from reliable Inner Fidelity graphs for it tell me those are not accurate. Especially in the low end.

 
these are DF compensated, so compared to, let's say, recently beloved olive-welti, bass peak looks big. 
and compared to Innerfidelity measurements of pm-3 in the resources page, they don't that different, just difference between the degree of seal, so there's difference in sub-bass area because of a possible leakage.
but the rest of the spectrums are comparable, so please don't overreact. 
and for your information, these nighthawk measurements are also comparable to Hifi news and records review's DF measurement in 
their september issue, they also shows big peak in the area from mid to mid-bass, and it doesn't necessarily bad for every people.

 

[Mark Up]

If the seal is bad, it can affect more than just subs. Lack of subs can affect other frequencies in my opinion.

 

[ohotonge]

If the seal is bad, it can affect more than just subs. Lack of subs can affect other frequencies in my opinion.

sorry that's not how it works.
First, the seal is not 'bad', it's just different. if you look at the measurements of old stax models in innerfidelity you can see all of them doesn't have sub-bass...at all.
but you can see sub bass in other measurements. Does that means innerfidelity's measurements are bad? According to you it should be yes. But no. The difference is in different interactions of different fake heads with the headphones, that's it. And the rest of the fr is comparable if they use the same compensation. In the cases of the staxs, tyll's and the others are comparable except subbass.

 

[Mark Up]

The bass measurements on the PM3 in the above graphs is so different from several other trusted sources that I don't trust it. I'm not saying you're wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree. As I've stated before, it doesn't invalidate the rest of the information in the graphs you'd posted (in the mids and highs), which actually look good for these headphones.

 

[ohotonge]

  The bass measurements on the PM3 in the above graphs is so different from several other trusted sources that I don't trust it. I'm not saying you're wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree. As I've stated before, it doesn't invalidate the rest of the information in the graphs you'd posted (in the mids and highs), which actually look good for these headphones.

what other sources other than innerfidelity, hi fi news, soundstage, and alpha audio which are comparable? enlighten me, please. 

 

[Luckbad]

   
these are DF compensated, so compared to, let's say, recently beloved olive-welti, bass peak looks big. 
and compared to Innerfidelity measurements of pm-3 in the resources page, they don't that different, just difference between the degree of seal, so there's difference in sub-bass area because of a possible leakage.
but the rest of the spectrums are comparable, so please don't overreact. 
and for your information, these nighthawk measurements are also comparable to Hifi news and records review's DF measurement in 
their september issue, they also shows big peak in the area from mid to mid-bass, and it doesn't necessarily bad for every people.

 
Wish I had access to the Hifi News and Record Reviews measurements. Note that InnerFidelity's measurements do show the raw data in gray beneath compensated data. The Oppo PM-3 measurements you have here are actually fairly similar to the compensated Oppo PM-3 measurements if you ignore the sub-bass a bit.

 

[Mark Up]

A mix from other reviews. The average I see is bass to slightly louder than 1 khz, and a small lump between 100 hz and 200 hz.
The mids to highs seem to be more where they should be in the graphs you'd posted. The subs are what is way off the average.
Luckbad, it was more than sub. There is a massive low mid wide peak about 200 hz on the Oppo and 300 hz on the Nighthawk. 

 
   
 

 

[ohotonge]

well, that's because, you just quoted used different compensations.

  A mix from other reviews. The average I see is bass to slightly louder than 1 khz, and a small lump between 100 hz and 200 hz.
The mids to highs seem to be more where they should be in the graphs you'd posted. The subs are what is way off the average.
Luckbad, it was more than sub. There is a massive low mid wide peak about 200 hz on the Oppo and 300 hz on the Nighthawk. 

 
   
 

 
that's easy to answer, because, the measurements you just quoted used different compensations.
tyll himself uses sometimes olive-welti compensation(which was your first graph), but uses df compensation for the measurements in resources page(which was the second graph), 
and go on and on..., and if you know how the compensation and raw graphs work, you will know they are comparable. and please ignore last two csd graphs, because they are measured in 1/1000 of seconds so most of time doesn't make any different in human ears. 

 

[Mark Up]

I respect your desire to split hairs. Despite response times, etc., all other graphs show flat to slightly raised response at 200 hz vs. the massive mountain in the graph you posted, followed by a huge sub roll off. Just saying the graph you posted is different in more than just the subs. So I look forward to other measurements on the Nighthawk based on that.