Audio Zenith PMx2 Impressions page
May 22, 2018 at 12:01 PM Post #361 of 391

ScareDe2

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Posts
711
Likes
167
Why would my subjective hearing be more important to you than this measurement? You can now compare you listening impression to more than one graph. One interesting point is the PM2, according to innerfidelity, follows a target suggesting that if you modify it you will end up with a different curve. Regardless if the Pmx2 measured was an early prototype or representative unit, it certainly has a different curve than the PM2. People can rely on that and the discussion to help them decide which headphone better suit them. I don't understand what is wrong with that.
 
May 22, 2018 at 12:26 PM Post #362 of 391

rschoi75

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Posts
344
Likes
162
I'd agree with your point if it was 3 years ago and when these were new to the market. We've been there, and done that already.

There's nothing wrong with having a discussion to help people choose, but you can't come to a conclusion when relying solely on one set of measurements.... especially if you haven't even heard the headphones in question yet. Furthermore, Oppo has tossed in the towel on the headphone game entirely, so once again, this discussion would have been more relevant a few years ago.
 
May 23, 2018 at 6:04 AM Post #363 of 391

ScareDe2

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Posts
711
Likes
167
My new target response based on the 500+ equalizations that I made (see my signature) is closer to what innerfidelity measured with the PMx2. That is good news for you folks.
 
May 23, 2018 at 7:27 AM Post #364 of 391

youurayy

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Posts
336
Likes
87
My new target response based on the 500+ equalizations that I made (see my signature) is closer to what innerfidelity measured with the PMx2. That is good news for you folks.

Only for those who don't use equalizer?

What is the "neutral" sound you are talking about. There's no such thing. E.g. the indescribable yet staggering difference between two different sets of vacuum tubes - it has nothing to do with equalizer - and we haven't yet found a way to really emulate it in silicon. Which basically means that our understanding of the sound processing domain is still very limited, and confined to certain dimensions only.

My second favorite setup (after DSD512 rendering into PMx2 thru 1975 russian tubes), is the Nuraphone. Forget their "wow-factor" promotional videos, that's not where the real beef is. The Nuraphone headphones actually measure the way your ears hear, and then create an equivalent of eye-glasses for your ears. It takes significant brain burn-in to accept this new type of sound, but then you just understand its superiority, and the enjoyment is really high. The methods of equalizer or headphone tuning are last-century compared to that. I wonder if the hearing profile created by the Nuraphones could be transferred and used to tweak my PMx2 setup, now that'd be interesting.
 
Last edited:
May 23, 2018 at 8:07 AM Post #365 of 391

ScareDe2

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Posts
711
Likes
167
Only for those who don't use equalizer?

What is the "neutral" sound you are talking about. There's no such thing. E.g. the indescribable yet staggering difference between two different sets of vacuum tubes - it has nothing to do with equalizer - and we haven't yet found a way to really emulate it in silicon. Which basically means that our understanding of the sound processing domain is still very limited, and confined to certain dimensions only.

My second favorite setup (after DSD512 rendering into PMx2 thru 1975 russian tubes), is the Nuraphone. Forget their "wow-factor" promotional videos, that's not where the real beef is. The Nuraphone headphones actually measure the way your ears hear, and then create an equivalent of eye-glasses for your ears. It takes significant brain burn-in to accept this new type of sound, but then you just understand its superiority, and the enjoyment is really high. The methods of equalizer or headphone tuning are last-century compared to that. I wonder if the hearing profile created by the Nuraphones could be transferred and used to tweak my PMx2 setup, now that'd be interesting.

That is interesting but in my opinion there will always be a new gimmick phone that sound great. I am not going to enter the details, but the brain equalizes the sound you are used to hear in your everyday life. What a good speaker does in a good room is to recreate accurately the sound. The problem I have with the harman curve is that neutral for me is not a good speaker in a good room, it is a good speaker in a studio, in front of you at ear level. I think Tyll measurements already gave indications that the closer you get to a speaker, the more the 6khz region that I dislike with the harman target decreases. But all that are numbers and measurements that I don't fully understand, and I don't find any source where it is explained in comprehensive details.

As for that Nuraphone, it has a decent price for the technology it is supposed to represent, so why not, if that gives you pleasure.

I have the lyr2 with 75 reflektors, it is wow, until you get tired of hearing a surrealistic sound.
 
Last edited:
May 25, 2018 at 8:09 PM Post #366 of 391

youurayy

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Posts
336
Likes
87
That is interesting but in my opinion there will always be a new gimmick phone that sound great. I am not going to enter the details, but the brain equalizes the sound you are used to hear in your everyday life. What a good speaker does in a good room is to recreate accurately the sound. The problem I have with the harman curve is that neutral for me is not a good speaker in a good room, it is a good speaker in a studio, in front of you at ear level. I think Tyll measurements already gave indications that the closer you get to a speaker, the more the 6khz region that I dislike with the harman target decreases. But all that are numbers and measurements that I don't fully understand, and I don't find any source where it is explained in comprehensive details.

As for that Nuraphone, it has a decent price for the technology it is supposed to represent, so why not, if that gives you pleasure.

I have the lyr2 with 75 reflektors, it is wow, until you get tired of hearing a surrealistic sound.

gimmick phone -- you don't know what you are talking about because you haven't heard them. It's a new tech. It's not a gimmick. Expensive 6+ driver in-ears with sibilance from hell are a gimmick tech.

brain equalizes -- you don't know the details because nobody knows the details, we're not that far in understanding the human brain. You can e.g. start with your current neurotrasmitter levels, it goes along these archetypal lines: https://www.bravermantest.com/

good speaker in a good room -- what room? what exact geometry, surfaces, air pressure, air temperature? parameters of speaker, amp, cables, power supply? And the same goes for a studio setup, including the hearing / brain-render of the studio engineer.

surrealistic sound -- do you prefer dry, boring sound? we're human, we thrive off change. I absolutely love to fire up my Lampi with equalized PMx2, why chase ghosts?
 
May 26, 2018 at 6:38 AM Post #367 of 391

ScareDe2

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Posts
711
Likes
167
There are no deep secrets about the brain when it comes to sound. You have your own unique hearing and that is what neutral is for you. If a speaker recreates the sound accurately, it doesn't matter how your unique hearing differs from mine, the speaker will be perceived as neutral for both of us.

Have you ever heard a person in real life speaking and thought.. hmm.. this mouth doesn't sound neutral to me?
 
Last edited:
Jan 28, 2019 at 1:03 PM Post #368 of 391

Slim1970

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
May 15, 2012
Posts
3,831
Likes
4,612
Location
STL
Is this mod still available
 
Jan 28, 2019 at 2:10 PM Post #369 of 391

m-i-c-k-e-y

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
May 1, 2013
Posts
2,522
Likes
1,001
Location
The Eternal City
Oct 26, 2019 at 6:53 PM Post #371 of 391

m-i-c-k-e-y

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
May 1, 2013
Posts
2,522
Likes
1,001
Location
The Eternal City
Just a shout out to this underrated HP.

Have a different portable setup for sometime now. Bit dated (2017) but its better than my desktop's SQ.
Having smiles and cycling again my library.

LG V20 w/ 400GB microsd thru UAPP -> LH Labs Revive (USB Reclock/Regen w/ battery) -> LH Labs GO2Pro Signature EX -> PMx2 Rev 2 (running balanced).

 
Oct 26, 2019 at 7:06 PM Post #372 of 391

Sonic Defender

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
12,117
Likes
3,541
Location
Ottawa, Ontario Canada
Just a shout out to this underrated HP.

Have a different portable setup for sometime now. Bit dated (2017) but its better than my desktop's SQ.
Having smiles and cycling again my library.

LG V20 w/ 400GB microsd thru UAPP -> LH Labs Revive (USB Reclock/Regen w/ battery) -> LH Labs GO2Pro Signature EX -> PMx2 Rev 2 (running balanced).

Must sound fantastic. I owned the PM3 (drove it balanced from an Onkyo DP-X1) and had both the PM1 and PM2 on hand for extended periods of time (all three were stock) and I agree, these headphones are underrated. What Oppo managed to pull of with that line is absolutely extraordinary when you think about it. Big blow to the hobby when they had to exit the marketplace. You are lucky indeed, hold onto your PM2, they are wonderful.
 
Oct 29, 2019 at 8:40 PM Post #373 of 391

gepardcv

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Posts
202
Likes
34
The PMx2 isn't really underrated IMO, just exceedingly rare. I was lucky to pick one up second-hand in a trade. Listeners who favor neutrality prize it highly. It seems to benefit from more powerful amplification than its specs suggest, though...
 
Oct 29, 2019 at 10:10 PM Post #374 of 391

Sonic Defender

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
12,117
Likes
3,541
Location
Ottawa, Ontario Canada
The PMx2 isn't really underrated IMO, just exceedingly rare...
Fair point. I almost went this route, but I am currently happy with my headphones and I couldn't try beforehand so with the still not inexpensive cost of a PM2, shipping it back and forth, plus the price of the mod, the cost of entry was prohibitive. Shame, but maybe I'll get luck one day and acquire a PMx2 used.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top