Audio-Technica ATH-R70x - In-Depth Review & Impressions
Jul 5, 2016 at 3:53 AM Post #961 of 2,669
From my experience with the k7XX then the K712 should NOT be too hard to drive, IF what people say about the K702 Annie, K712 and K7xx being twins is true. My iDSD Micro can drive the k7XX in Eco mode. 
 
But is the R70x hard to drive?
 
Jul 5, 2016 at 5:19 AM Post #962 of 2,669
I think it is not hard to drive but scales quite enough with powerful amp. When we tried with audio gd nfb 10.33 (same amp as nfb28) it was on 80% of volume on low gain. Imo better would be around 50%.. So I would look for bigger amp here in general.
 
Jul 5, 2016 at 5:28 AM Post #963 of 2,669
I think it is not hard to drive but scales quite enough with powerful amp. When we tried with audio gd nfb 10.33 (same amp as nfb28) it was on 80% of volume on low gain. Imo better would be around 50%.. So I would look for bigger amp here in general.

? Why don't you just use high gain then?
 
Jul 6, 2016 at 4:24 AM Post #964 of 2,669
Hi, 
 
I'm using AKG Q701 (burned in for ~150h) as my 2nd mixing reference after JBL LSR305. I think the treble on Q701 is just a little too bright for me. 
 
I'm considering buying this R70x. Is it worth upgrading from Q701? I'm using Q701 with my Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 (@9-10 o'clock give me enough volume for my listening). I tend to use R70x with built-in headphones amp in 18i8 for mixing/mastering, so I don't want to buy any external headphones amp.
 
Does my interface have enough power to drive ATH R70x because of its 470 ohm of impedance?
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Jul 6, 2016 at 4:38 AM Post #965 of 2,669
  Hi, 
 
I'm using AKG Q701 (burned in for ~150h) as my 2nd mixing reference after JBL LSR305. I think the treble on Q701 is just a little too bright for me. 
 
I'm considering buying this R70x. Is it worth upgrading from Q701? I'm using Q701 with my Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 (@9-10 o'clock give me enough volume for my listening). I tend to use R70x with built-in headphones amp in 18i8 for mixing/mastering, so I don't want to buy any external headphones amp.
 
Does my interface have enough power to drive ATH R70x because of its 470 ohm of impedance?
 
Thanks in advance!


I could check it out with the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4. They probably use the similar, if not the same headphone output. About +10 dB of gain is nice to have.
 
Jul 6, 2016 at 6:00 AM Post #966 of 2,669
 
I could check it out with the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4. They probably use the similar, if not the same headphone output. About +10 dB of gain is nice to have.

Ok, thank you so much!!!!
 
I think they use the same HP output...
 
If you can, please note down what o'clock the point of the knob point to and let me know it...
 
Thanks again!!!
 
Jul 6, 2016 at 12:17 PM Post #967 of 2,669
  Ok, thank you so much!!!!
 
I think they use the same HP output...
 
If you can, please note down what o'clock the point of the knob point to and let me know it...
 
Thanks again!!!


OK, so I've compared the HP output of Xonar ST and Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 with replaygained music or music that is properly mastered (= no replaygain necessary). The Xonar on high gain (+12 dB) is a little louder, but the gain of the 2i4 should be sufficient (9-10 o'clock knob position). Because the treble of the R70x is quite pleasant, you might find yourself in a situation where you would want to push them higher. However if you don't use replaygain, you usually have about +6 dB of album gain on average, which should be more than enough. I've never used a "very high gain" setting (+18 dB) on Xonar ST. From what I remember when comparing the Q701 and the R70x, the gain setting should be somewhat similar.
 
I'm not entirely sure if the R70x are good for mastering/mixing, because of their natural sound. They're what the music sounds like if you're listening to loudspeakers and are quite forgiving to badly mastered music. If you want detail/error retrieval HP, there might be better options. For example the MSR7 might be a better monitoring HP and they have very accurate treble, without sounding fatiguing.
 
Jul 6, 2016 at 11:12 PM Post #968 of 2,669
 
OK, so I've compared the HP output of Xonar ST and Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 with replaygained music or music that is properly mastered (= no replaygain necessary). The Xonar on high gain (+12 dB) is a little louder, but the gain of the 2i4 should be sufficient (9-10 o'clock knob position). Because the treble of the R70x is quite pleasant, you might find yourself in a situation where you would want to push them higher. However if you don't use replaygain, you usually have about +6 dB of album gain on average, which should be more than enough. I've never used a "very high gain" setting (+18 dB) on Xonar ST. From what I remember when comparing the Q701 and the R70x, the gain setting should be somewhat similar.
 
I'm not entirely sure if the R70x are good for mastering/mixing, because of their natural sound. They're what the music sounds like if you're listening to loudspeakers and are quite forgiving to badly mastered music. If you want detail/error retrieval HP, there might be better options. For example the MSR7 might be a better monitoring HP and they have very accurate treble, without sounding fatiguing.

Thank you so much for these info. It's very helpful!
wink.gif

 
9-10 o'clock of knob position is really interesting. "Q701 and the R70x, the gain setting should be somewhat similar." this one surprised me a lot (62 ohm vs 470 ohm with "somewhat similar" gain setting. 
biggrin.gif

 
I hope I can try R70x driven by 18i8 soon. But I hope I don't have to change my setup or buying anything more.
L3000.gif

 
Thank you!
 
Jul 7, 2016 at 2:21 AM Post #969 of 2,669
Thank you so much for these info. It's very helpful!:wink:

9-10 o'clock of knob position is really interesting. "Q701 and the R70x, the gain setting should be somewhat similar." this one surprised me a lot (62 ohm vs 470 ohm with "somewhat similar" gain setting. :D

I hope I can try R70x driven by 18i8 soon. But I hope I don't have to change my setup or buying anything more.:L3000:

Thank you!
don't let the 67ohm impedance fool you, the akg k/q7 line is actually even harder to drive than at least 90% of all the audiophile headphones on the market. This is because they have very low efficiency/sensitivity. Impedance alone only says half about how easy/difficult it is to drive a headphone
 
Jul 7, 2016 at 4:42 AM Post #970 of 2,669
don't let the 67ohm impedance fool you, the akg k/q7 line is actually even harder to drive than at least 90% of all the audiophile headphones on the market. This is because they have very low efficiency/sensitivity. Impedance alone only says half about how easy/difficult it is to drive a headphone

Ok... Well, I'm just a newbie here. I'm an ITB producer so I don't know a lot when it comes to analog world and all its stuff.
 
Are you serious? I don't know if my Scarlett 18i8 can gives Q701 the right "sound character" but I'm sure that it gives me more than enough volume that I need! When I use my Q701, just turn the volume knob to ~9 o'clock position and it's too enough for me.
 
When I looked up for Q701's info, I saw that they have 62 Ohm of impedance and 105dB of sensitivity comparing to 470 Ohm and 99dB of R70x...
 
I'm still curious about this thing 
biggrin.gif
.
 
I have a question about SPDIF connection. Scarlett 18i8 has 8 output (https://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-18i8/specifications). 1-2 are my main monitors, 3-4 and 5-6 are 2 pairs hard-wired headphones outputs on the front. The only free outputs are 7-8, which are SPDIF with coaxial connection. I'm considering buying Schiit Magni 2 Uber (2 RCA input on the back). What is the best way to use it with my 18i8 without losing significant sound quality?
 
Thank you!
 
Jul 7, 2016 at 9:27 AM Post #971 of 2,669
dB isn't the unit to measure sensitivity. Different manufacturers might use dB/V or dB/mW. Most prefer dB/V for it looks bigger, which is the case of the akg k701 and its siblings. When you change its sensitivity from 105 db/V into dB/mW you only get 93 dB/mW, which is among the lowest on the market. In fact these AKGs are even harder to drive than the hd600/650.
 
Jul 7, 2016 at 11:00 AM Post #972 of 2,669
What is the best way to use it with my 18i8 without losing significant sound quality? Thank you!

I'm a veteran producer / engineer (studio and live sound) and have an M-Audio FW and Audient USB interface. They drive headphones great and very honestly. It makes me more demanding of their sound quality, because I can't depend on a tube signal path or EQ knob. I'm very leery about using EQ in audio playback software even (I hate EQ phase shift). I am a minimalist on signal path. That Focusrite to your computer, just its headphone jacks. Less clutter, expense, and distance for the signal to travel, through fewer connections.
 
Jul 7, 2016 at 11:10 AM Post #973 of 2,669
dB isn't the unit to measure sensitivity. Different manufacturers might use dB/V or dB/mW. Most prefer dB/V for it looks bigger, which is the case of the akg k701 and its siblings. When you change its sensitivity from 105 db/V into dB/mW you only get 93 dB/mW, which is among the lowest on the market. In fact these AKGs are even harder to drive than the hd600/650.

What about comparing Q701 to R70x (sensitivity)? I'm just a new guy to this domain...
 
  I'm a veteran producer / engineer (studio and live sound) and have an M-Audio FW and Audient USB interface. They drive headphones great and very honestly. It makes me more demanding of their sound quality, because I can't depend on a tube signal path or EQ knob. I'm very leery about using EQ in audio playback software even (I hate EQ phase shift). I am a minimalist on signal path. That Focusrite to your computer, just its headphone jacks. Less clutter, expense, and distance for the signal to travel, through fewer connections.

Me too. I don't want to add any other DAC or signal processing unit to my setup. I'm considering Schiit Magni only because I'm afraid that my 18i8 can't drive R70x. But if I can as you said, I'll leave it alone because I love the simple setup. Just everything come from the same source...
 
 
And another thing: in the case 18i8 can drive them, should I buy R70x as another ref source if I've already got Q701?
 
Thank you!
 
Jul 7, 2016 at 7:56 PM Post #975 of 2,669
  The Focusrite has been said by some not to be powerful enough, but I disagree. You can always get them from a place with full refunds, and return them if they can't be driven.

Unfortunately, I'm in Vietnam. So refund/return is something...unfamiliar here 
biggrin.gif
. Actually, I have to take 18i8 with me to the headphone shop and try them.
 
I asked Focusrite yesterday and they replied: "The headphone impedance of the 18i8 is <10Ω. Any headphones up to 250Ω should work without any issues on the 18i8, above 250Ω may be a significant reduction in audible output level."
 
BTW, what HP do you use with your 2 interfaces?
 
Thank you!
 

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