AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[InsanityOne]

I would hate to burst the bubble on a "$13 2TB USB Flash Drive" as well, but such a thing simply cannot exist for such a low price. The highest capacity USB flash drive that I know of is the Kingston DataTraveler HyperX Predator 1TB USB 3.0 Flash Drive which costs around $550 used or $700 new.
 
- Insan1tyOne 

 

[rb2013]

  I would hate to burst the bubble on a "$13 2TB USB Flash Drive" as well, but such a thing simply cannot exist for such a low price. The highest capacity USB flash drive that I know of is the Kingston DataTraveler HyperX Predator 1TB USB 3.0 Flash Drive which costs around $550 used or $700 new.
 
- Insan1tyOne 

Well just bought and paid for one - so we will see what arrives from HK.  Found a few more:
This one is $12.99! 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/351817019742?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
 
Note these are not USB 3.0 - but USB 2.0 sticks.
 
I loaded a few more test tracks on the old 8GB USB stick - some L2 tracks of Finzi - "Come Away, Death" these are available free from 2L.com
 
DXD FLAC/MQA (PCM 352K)
PCM 192k FLAC
DSD 64
 
And some LP's I digitalized at 32 bit 176K WAV.
 
They all played without a hitch in Foobar and sounded superb!

 

[rb2013]

Yes, the CEC was a great piece of gear. Had it modified with a better clock and psu.
The zanden sounded very rich.
The resolution audio opus 21 brought speed, better bass, definition and scene. Tough to choose so I kept the less expensive one. The cantata sounded more full and rich, more natural. So I guess getting closer on these aspects to the zanden.

I have seen your last post indeed ... Very interesting !!
Will read the next posts with huge interest, like I have been doing since 2 months

Those BB(now TI)  PCM1704 DAC chips are the tone chaps.
 
Have you heard this beauty?
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/aqua/1.html
 

  Hey Rob,
 
I'm certainly interested in the outcome of the solution you're looking at.
 
In the meantime, I'd cancel your order for the flash drive if you can.
 
First, it's kind of like finding a source for $.19 per gallon gasoline. One would be skeptical of such a proposition.
 
But more than that, I've read, I think it was reviews on Amazon regarding similar purchases for SD cards, etc., where the buyer came to find out that the seller had just screwed around with the format of the storage device to make it appear as if it had a storage capacity dramatically beyond what it actually had.
 
I hope you find out differently, but I sincerely doubt it.
 
Thanks for all of the great information you've been devoting to this and other related threads.
 
Joel

Hi Joel,  I can understand your skeptisim - I'm right there with you.
 
[Edit: Deleted the part on the $12 - 2TB Amazon and Ebay scammers - but the SQ effect is real.  And since I have the Startech anyway - this is still very interesting.  Especially for what the Startech does for USB - this is an add-on benefit. The PS Audio version btw only has one USB slot - so maybe the Startech or Icron are the better ways to go....]
 
Remember the throughput of these USB 2.0 sticks are 'only' 10MB/sec to 30+MB/sec READ speeds (write speeds are way slower).  And maybe the smaller device print of these new gen 2TB could be faster.  I'll try a few to test SQ.
http://usbspeed.nirsoft.net
But on my 'old' WIN 7 iCore5 office machine - even throwing my massive 32/176K WAV files into the mix- they play without an issue and sound amazing.
 
The more I play with this the more I'm impressed.
 
So with four slots to work with  - one I have a Jitterbug - which makes a small improvement.  That leaves three open.  In a AOIP that would leave three open - or 6TB!  In my USB system - one is for feeding my F-1 - so that leaves two open - or 4TB.  That is if these ultra high capacity USB sticks sound the same as my small one.  I have a 32GB I pulled from my car - I will try that one to see.
 
The Startech REX is being powered by a $83 Breeze LPS - with a LT1083 LDO - but an R-core.  This LDO has 180uv of noise - I imagine a lower noise LPS might make for even better SQ.
 
This is really an interesting development.

 

[rb2013]

Well reading all over there is much about a 'scam' on these USB2.0 flash drives - so what is a legit max USB for under $100?
 
So here is a Sandisk (doubt these are a 'scam') 256GB for $69.  Maybe that is more realistic?
 
The effect of the SQ is the same - and with time the prices will fall on high capacity USB drives.
 
The lowest cost 128GB on NewEgg is $15.99 - I assume this is not a scam drive - but legit.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAAWB4D02916&cm_re=usb_drive-_-9SIAAWB4D02916-_-Product
 
I'll order one of these.
 
Thanks for the tip-off!
 
PS - What's this world coming to?  Who'd think that Amazon and Ebay would have fraudulent Chinese sellers??

 
Will have to wait for Moore's Law to work a few more iterations...for $12 2 TB USB flash drives.

 

[motberg]

  In my office system I have been using my Uber USB chain.  Which includes the Startech GB LAN USB Extender.  This unit provides galvanic isolation to USB and is possibly the most effective USB 'packet noise' filter available.  Anyway in terms of SQ - it is terrific - in fact gets USB much closer to AOIP then any other of the numerous USB gizmos out there (I have tried almost all of them and many together in almost endless combinations).  I replaced the SMPS power units on the sending and receiving with inexpensive LPS's.  This really helped the SQ.
 

What a cool idea using the USB port of the REX ! 
(I was wondering if there would be any benefit to try one of those higher-end SD->USB card readers in a USB port..)
 
How does the Startech packet noise suppression compare to the Intona (which also provides USB GI)?
 
http://intona.eu/en/answer/1239
 
quote: "By using a technology well known in digital communication systems called Spread Spectrum, any harmonics produced through periodic packet transmission (like 8kHz packet noise) could be eliminated."

 

[rb2013]

  What a cool idea using the USB port of the REX ! 
(I was wondering if there would be any benefit to try one of those higher-end SD->USB card readers in a USB port..)
 
How does the Startech packet noise suppression compare to the Intona (which also provides USB GI)?
 
http://intona.eu/en/answer/1239
 
quote: "By using a technology well known in digital communication systems called Spread Spectrum, any harmonics produced through periodic packet transmission (like 8kHz packet noise) could be eliminated."

The comparison to the Intona and the Startech is an interesting one.  They both go about providing USB GI in different manners - although they do have similarities.
 
With the Startech at least is the use of the inherent GI of GB LAN Ethernet.  But the protocol goes deeper - in fact it's a compelete translation of USB packets to IP packets (and hence can be transmitted over a GB LAN), then once the IP packets arrive, they are re-translated back to USB packets - but in essence recreated devoid of the noise on the PC USB bus.
 
The Startech I have uses powerful Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA's on both ends - with XO clocks on board.
 
The advantages of the Startech/Icron appoarch?  Well lower inherent noise - LAN Ethernet capable - LPS power on the REX and LEX ends, etc...
 
As an isolated SSD type of HD alternative to SSD's themselves?  Well again the GI and PC noise environment is elminated.  I suppose you can go with an external SSD - but many are USB powered - and interfaced:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=A8746565&ST=pla&dgc=ST&cid=302824&lid=5758064&acd=12309152537461010&ven1=A8746565:112781467989:901pdb6671:c&ven2=:
 
Maybe an external Thunderbolt SSD drive enclosure - but those get expensive.
 
This may just be a lower cost and simpler route.

 

[artur9]

  Just a heads-up someone PM'ed this link to a very low cost PC Music Server - with  built in low noise LPS.  $600 for the package shipped with 8GB RAM and 250GB SSD.
 
Completely fanless.  I'm very tempted to try one.
 
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=83

 
Why would you want that over a MicroRendu or SotM SMS-200?

 

[rb2013]

Why would you want that over a MicroRendu or SotM SMS-200?

Well not for the audio analog outputs of course. Just as a low cost WIN10 fanless, Linear power supplied pc. The microrendu is just a render. That as far sq is concerned is crushed by AOIP Dante, or even well done USB with GB Ethernet isolation.

And as for the SMS200, why would I want that? A $510 DNLA sucks render? Oh that needs a power supply at additional cost.

I want to be able to use any asio player I choose. Not roon thanks

 

[rb2013]

Wanting to avoid these fake off brand Chinese USB sticks for my little USB/Startech HD experiment.  I chose to stay with name brand USB flash drives; SanDisk, Kingston, Lexar - I found this 256GB on Amazon for $49.
 
So three of these would give me 750GB for $150.  Not bad.  And I can return back to Amazon if it doesn't work as advertised.
 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S5V5PTC/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[InsanityOne]

  Well reading all over there is much about a 'scam' on these USB2.0 flash drives - so what is a legit max USB for under $100?
 
So here is a Sandisk (doubt these are a 'scam') 256GB for $69.  Maybe that is more realistic?
 
The effect of the SQ is the same - and with time the prices will fall on high capacity USB drives.
 
The lowest cost 128GB on NewEgg is $15.99 - I assume this is not a scam drive - but legit.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAAWB4D02916&cm_re=usb_drive-_-9SIAAWB4D02916-_-Product
 
I'll order one of these.
 
Thanks for the tip-off!
 
PS - What's this world coming to?  Who'd think that Amazon and Ebay would have fraudulent Chinese sellers??

 
Will have to wait for Moore's Law to work a few more iterations...for $12 2 TB USB flash drives.

The cheapest I could find are these 256GB models from PNY on Amazon. We use this model at work and they have been pretty reliable so far, although they have slow read / write speeds (only around ~115 mb/s) but they are only $50 so I can't complain too much. If you want a 256GB or 512GB flash drive that has faster speeds (like ~280 mb/s) you will be looking at ~$150 for the lowest price point.
 
- InsanityOne 

 

 

[rb2013]

The cheapest I could find are these 256GB models from PNY on Amazon. We use this model at work and they have been pretty reliable so far, although they have slow read / write speeds (only around ~115 mb/s) but they are only $50 so I can't complain too much. If you want a 256GB or 512GB flash drive that has faster speeds (like ~280 mb/s) you will be looking at ~$150 for the lowest price point.

- Insan1tyOne   

Thanks. That $49 Lexar 256gb should be fine. The Startech only does USB 2.0, so those 3.0 speeds won't matter ( other then initial file loading which I'll do from a 3.0). My only concern is compatiblity with the Startech REX and SQ.

Listening this morning again, doing a/b comparison of the same tracks. I really like the SQ improvements.

PS Just checking on the PNY 256GB - Bestbuy stocks them for $49. 25% discount if you buy three. Which I did, so 750GB total for $112.

Thanks!

 

[InsanityOne]

Thanks. That $49 Lexar 256gb should be fine. The Startech only does USB 2.0, so those 3.0 speeds won't matter ( other then initial file loading which I'll do from a 3.0). My only concern is compatiblity with the Startech REX and SQ.

Listening this morning again, doing a/b comparison of the same tracks. I really like the SQ improvements.

PS Just checking on the PNY 256GB - Bestbuy stocks them for $49. 25% discount if you buy three. Which I did, so 750GB total for $112.

Thanks!

Nice! Glad I could help you out! Another device you could try (in-theory) would be an external USB HDD. You could get the space you are looking for in a much cheaper price point going that route.
 
- InsanityOne

 

 

[artur9]

And as for the SMS200, why would I want that? A $510 DNLA sucks render? Oh that needs a power supply at additional cost.

It's not just a DLNA renderer. 
 
So you prefer something feeding Dante's VCS over all other alternatives?

 

[rb2013]

  Nice! Glad I could help you out! Another device you could try (in-theory) would be an external USB HDD. You could get the space you are looking for in a much cheaper price point going that route.
 
- InsanityOne

 

Well I want to elminiate any spinning HD - even a SSD would have to have external power.  These USB sticks are perfect.  I suppose a TB PCIe ext SSD enclosure would be nice to try - they aren't cheap.  And I'd need another LPS.  If this experiment pans out - I will get a better 24VDC LPS for the Startech REX.  This will do double duty - USB GI and PN filter and solid state external drive.
 
Just got back from Bestbuy to give a listen with the PNY.

 

[rb2013]

  It's not just a DLNA renderer. 
 
So you prefer something feeding Dante's VCS over all other alternatives?

I guess you haven't read this thread - you might want to read the first few pages.  I reposted there (and a few other times here along the way) some comments from knowledge folks - including audio engineers - their abhorrence to the DNLA/UpNP scheme...including the creator of HQPlayer.
 
I do believe USB can be made very good - but it takes hero measures - even then a simple chain PC>DANTE>DAC beats it.
 
There have been quite a few posts here and on a few other blogs that have compared the microrendu to the Rednet - I think it's been about 100% in favor of Rednet.  One of the best parts - you can use any audio player that works with ASIO.
 
Now take the superiority of AOIP and eliminate the SPDIF/AES weak link - remove the SMPS ad add a LPS for power.  Now you have a world class digital chain.